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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not trying to troll or incite anyone, but just want to know what happened.

First I want to say that this is the bike I've been waiting for (well almost).

When the specs were first announced, 1800cc, dual overhead cams, stout compression, big bore, short stroke, high revving (given it's displacement), GSXR 1000 based fuel injection, I thought DAMN! this thing has to put out at least 130RWHP!

I mean if the V-Rod with essentially the same design and 700ccs less puts out about 110RWHP then this monster ought to blow that away given the huge displacement advantage.

I was excited. This would (should) have been the first 10 second V-twin production cruiser.

But I see that it can only equal the HP of the V-rod but weighs 50-75lbs more, so in stock form will always be slower. Early 1/4 mile times prove that out.

The 109 seems to be not much faster than the Kawi Vulcan 2000. The Kawi runs low 12s, the 109 might hit high 11s.

700cc advantage over the V-Rod, same essential specs but no more HP, 800cc advantage over bikes like the RC51 or Aprilia V-twins (all using the same basic technology of dual OHCs, FI, high compression). The V-twin sprot bikes put out close to or more than 130RWHP.

So, what happend between the specs and the dyno? Where'd all the HP go?

Still, it's by far the nicest cruiser out, but I was expecting much more in the way of straight line performance.

If anyone can explain the reason for the lack of HP, please do so.

Thanks
 

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when all of the aftermarket stuff works its way out, i wouldn't be surprised to see atleast 140hp with simple filter,pipe, and mapping. i was a little surprised myself, but it wont stop me from grabbing one of these babies.

john
 

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Marketing & Durability
They hit the #S and can say most HP of any Vtwin.... Its fast as H3ll and doesn't need to be any better... "From the factory in it's first year."
Let Honda or someone start the HP race (like Chevy and Ford do with trucks) and there is plenty of room to EASILY improve upon this.
You already stated "I want to say that this is the bike I've been waiting for (well almost)" So Suzuki has gotten your attention.
Some will wait for more HP from the factory... others will create it.

So realistically from a Corporate view there is NO lack of HP... Just a reserve to keep themselves on top when needed. :D :D

Sledzep
 

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And if we are comparing 109 HP from a V-Rod and 112 from our bike we also need to look at torque. Which is really what displacement gets you. We have 101 Ft Lbs and a V-Rod has 74 Ft Lbs. Also you need to look at the Torque curve. The M109 is making more torque at 2,500 rpm than the V-Rod ever makes and it makes over 90 Ft Lbs from 2,500 to 6,500. Our Horsepower curve is also very flat and it is making over 100 Hp for a much longer portion of the revs than a V-Rod does.

Peak numbers are cool but are by no means an accurate measurement of real world acceleration.

That said I am going to put on enough mods to pull it to 135 rwhp and then throw on a 25 shot of nitrous.

I also think that the extra 4 to 5 grand you'd pay for a V-Rod just proves that Harley can't make a real engine with a good German sports car company helping them out. :welcome:
 

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Harley can't make a real engine with a good German sports car company helping them out.

Make without a good german sports car company
 
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The m109 is a great bike. For once Suzuki is on the right path. You can see that by the number of owners on this site alone. If Hona and Kawasaki want to stay in the sport cruiser market both will need to produce lighter rides with more power and technology of the 109. I feel this bike is capable of horse power numbers that are unconcevible many of us at the present time.

Just my $.02 worth
 

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I think this fellow means well; he's just a little misinformed is all. A lot of folks misunderstand the concept of torque.

To make more HP, you just need to rev faster. True, the V-Rod is only about 1130 cc, but it redlines at 10 K, hence, the peak horsepower is comparable. But that extra 670 cc is getting you nearly 60% more torque. That is a HUGE advantage.

The M109 makes more power down low than the V-Rod, and as someone pointed out, the M109's powerband is a lot flatter. You do lose a bit more from the shaft vs. belt drive, but not much.

I'd also point out that there is a lot more "hidden potential" in the M109R yet to be unleashed. When the parts are available, you'll be seeing 140 RWHP easily from the M109. Not bad for a $1000 - $1500 investment. Try getting that kind of performance for that kind of cash from a V-Rod. It ain't happenin'.

The price difference is secondary as far as this discussion goes. If I thought the V-Rod was better, I would have bought it, whatever it cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
pizzmor said:
He's right this thing is slow. I hate it. Not really though. I guess you can't please everyone. What the [email protected]#$ was this phallus expecting?
Your so eloquent in your mastery of the written word. :bigthumbsup:

Seriously, I was expecting 130RWHP on average. And that should've been on the low side. Stock, from the factory. Heading the old dragracing addage, "there is no replacement for displacement". Well apparently there is. What does Harley (Porche) know that Suzuki doesn't.

700 cc dispacement advantage and they make essentially the same HP, crank and RW. Somethings wrong here.

I's sure with some mods it'll go up (a lot), but that's not the point. It should've (given the specs) been there from the start.

And for an 1800cc V-twin with its hi-tech engine design, it IS slow.

High 11s at 110 (at best) is far from fast. Come on, I had an 83 GS1100 with a pipe and jet kit that ran high 10s at 123-125. My stock 85 V-max would do the same.

The 109 should've done the same.

It's not that I don't like the bike, if I were buying a bike today it's the one I would lilkely buy. I'm just dissappointed in the numbers.
 

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Let's see my Boss Hoss is a little over 5700cc's but it's only putting out about 300hp to the rear wheel. Man I guess that's screwed up too. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wanted said:
I think this fellow means well; he's just a little misinformed is all. A lot of folks misunderstand the concept of torque.

To make more HP, you just need to rev faster. True, the V-Rod is only about 1130 cc, but it redlines at 10 K, hence, the peak horsepower is comparable. But that extra 670 cc is getting you nearly 60% more torque. That is a HUGE advantage.

The M109 makes more power down low than the V-Rod, and as someone pointed out, the M109's powerband is a lot flatter. You do lose a bit more from the shaft vs. belt drive, but not much.

I'd also point out that there is a lot more "hidden potential" in the M109R yet to be unleashed. When the parts are available, you'll be seeing 140 RWHP easily from the M109. Not bad for a $1000 - $1500 investment. Try getting that kind of performance for that kind of cash from a V-Rod. It ain't happenin'.

The price difference is secondary as far as this discussion goes. If I thought the V-Rod was better, I would have bought it, whatever it cost.
I know all about torque. It makes a big difference in real world riding, but at the end of the day, the 1/4 mile time is what sells and what one remembers.

As an example the Hayabusa had that over the ZX12, the ZX12 tanked in the market place, hence the ZX14. Not a big difference in the real world but it does have the better numbers than the Suzook now.

The V-Rod redlines at 9K, the 109R at what 7.5K (not sure)

Not that big a difference.

Again, I'm not knocking the 109, just asking why it doesn't make the HP the specs indicate it should. I would never buy a V-rod no matter how fast it was, but was hoping the 109 would be the crusier 1/4 mile king (stock) and it's not. Should've been though.
 

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Dude, you answered this in the first sentence.

People who are too dumb to see past the 1/4 mile times will buy a different bike and post on a different forum, both of which are fine by me.

If someone can't see the advantage of an extra 40+ lbs-ft of torque over an extra 1/2 second at the track, they probably can't be reasoned with anyway. Their loss.
 

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I don't know how anyone gets 130 rwhp out of 127 crankshaft hp. Oh well. A GSX-R 1000 is making 168 out of only 1000 cubic inches. Looks like Suzuki does know Hp after all.

I also find it intersting that it is making more Hp than any cruiser under 2300 cc.

We also don't know if it's the quarter mile king stock. I haven't seen any head to head comparoes with the V-Rod yet. Don't know if anyone else has either. I have also never owned a motorcycle that was stock.

I guess I am Suzuki's target market and you aren't. No big deal. To each his own.

And if taijiman is wondering what I was thinking of doing with the extra horsepower it was to smoke my tire (or wheelie) through an intersection while I am spanking the stock sportbike next to me with the street squid on it.

Never was much for reading.

I come from a 220 hp Turbo XX and I just want to really surprise a few sportbikes. I just like fast.
 

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iL Medico said:
Seriously, I was expecting 130RWHP on average. And that should've been on the low side. Stock, from the factory.
Why were you expecting that #?? From what source? what equation tells you this should do that from the factory??

iL Medico said:
I know all about torque. It makes a big difference in real world riding, but at the end of the day, the 1/4 mile time is what sells and what one remembers.
Really? Perhaps you are too far from the sea? Squids and Poseurs are the only people I know that only remember the stats over the real world appeal of the overall package. I shopped EVERY manufacturer for 12 weeks this spring and had all types of bikes on my maybe list, I never once relied solely on 1/4 mile times and static HP and torque.

If you need bragging rights, this has many right out of the box. If you need to feel responsible (beyond paying for it) this is a great place to start
so you can say "I made it fast"

At it's heart this is still a cruiser. If HP and top speed claims are what you are after you should buy a sport bike and upgrade each season your #'s fall behind.
If you want a first of its kind kickass ride, look no further.
 

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only comparison to a v-rod was a *stock* 109 vs. a *modified* *streetrod*...and they were neck and neck

take out the timing retard, let it breathe, fix the fuel/air, and get some pipes that are actually tuned and see what happens.
 
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