M109 Rider Forums banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
bike had 82 miles on it before today just around town miles. did 218 miles  today at the first stop oil all over the left side cover, seat leaking out at bottom of air filter this was the most at the first stop 5 more stops oil still leaking out about 1/2 qt all day. got home still spraying all over left side covers chrome & paint pull filter cover filter soaked about 1 oz in bottom of cover. so i thought the level was right after using the suzki way of checking oil 15 minutes run 3 min cool down check oil. so whats next i will have to replace filters but when does the oil stop? is it still overfilled??? i dont think so just checked it  ouy. any help ?????? why only the left side at one point today i got on it and a huge cloud of blue smoke came flowing out only did this once. right side is dry as a bone. is there a small spacer that goes at the bottom of the air box? just checked oil 3/4 up the shaft
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
left air filter was soaked completly i am thinking this is where a lot of the oil came from. removed right side brand new looking once the oil levell is correct which i think it is now this should not happen again? i am now running without any filters just the boxes the bike l seems to run more smooth w/ out the filters & just the boxes thanks for your feed back have to wait until thurs to get a filter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
844 Posts
This thing about the right oil volume is not as simple as it has been made out to be. At 600 miles I did my own oil and filter change -- largely because of all the stuff I had read on this site about the oil overfill problem.

After filter change, I added EXACTLY 3800 cc's of synthetic oil. I checked the level using the precise technique recommended -- and it looked like the oil was low. Not to be fooled -- I rode it for a while like that, and then came home and checked it again: it was just at the tip of the stick. So I added oil gradually, until it read close to the top of the knurled section of the stick.

Today I checked it again, using the Suzuki technique -- and again it looked low, -- just a few mm from the tip fo the stick. So I added oil again, to top it up. Then I rode it, and checked it again on return. This time it looked A.OK. And there is no sign of leakage anywhere.

I am close to paranoid about putting too much oil in this thing, but I don't run it low on oil either.

I just can't understand why there isn't one specific volume of oil that you can add to the crankcase -- and be right on every time. (?) :mad:
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i ran it hard all day 75 - 85 mph going thru the gears etc. when i ran my yamaha fj1100 car tire bike we ran the crankcase hose into a dump can stainless or just a empty qt of oil same thing would happen to much crankcase psi is this the answer?? because if it is its not a good one i would think. love the bike. whats with the bike running smoother WO filters JR???  just boxes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,579 Posts
JR, what's your definition of riding hard? Not necessarily drag racing hard like you do, but what would be riding hard for the average person? The reason I ask is I have put 1000 miles on my bike since I had the oil changed to the proper level and the left air box cleaned and I have yet to have oil dump. I have taken my bike to 145 and have run the gears to 7K + RPM several times, still with no signs at all of oil dump. I have checked the oil, and it is actually at the full mark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,579 Posts
J R said:
Ok that sounds normal maybe its just some bikes or maybe its the guys that really run them all the time hard ??? Just trying to learn here not saying i have any info to prove this im just trying to figure it out.Also you guys that made your own airfilters,What did you do with the breather hoses and are they leaking after after a good run????
I hope it's not as you suggested with your theory. That would suck big time. I keep checking for oil after every ride. Luckily it seems to be fixed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
752 Posts
Here is the crazy thing about this though. There seems to be no rhyme or reason. Oldfart has had his puke 5 times! I am running way harder than him. Some who run easy are having it and some who run hard are having it. Some who change their own oil have it and some don't. Same with dealers changing it.

It seems it is not the overfill. I have really been thinking about the crankcase vent and I think that it must be that.Â

I have ran a steel mesh filter for the crankcase vent. http://www.m109riders.com/forum/index.php?topic=1771.msg21426#msg21426 I have zero problem with this. I have changed my oil multiple times it's at just the right level. I am open throttle all the time. I can't keep out of it. I have no problems.

I feel strongly that it's a crankcase venting issue but of course I am just trying to figure it out and could be all off base..Â

JR, any possibility of negative pressure in the airbox? Could the engine suck it in faster than the filters can pull it through, we get negative pressure and it pulls the oil from the crankcase?

I know that with my mod I lack a certain hesitation that I had before (and couldn't notice until the mod) and I think it's because it couldn't get air into the box fast enough to make up for the engine sucking it down.

I am really key on this negative pressure thing.Â

You guys that are having this trouble, where do you live?

Seems that a lower altitude, higher air pressure would perhaps aggravate it more?

Now tell me if I am nuts JRÂ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
666 Posts
i have run my 109 kinda hard these last few days and been keeping a eye on the oil thing to

i have a few buddy's i ride with that are none believers of the 109 8)
2-HD vrod
1-kawi valcon 1600
2-yamaha warrior

let's just say i made believers out of them real fast :bigthumbsup:

i raced each of them one after the other ..and checked for oil after every race NOTHING AT ALL :D and i hope it stay's that way.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jr my bike is stock no mods no fi 2000 at all but it does run better w/o filters smooth as hell no hesitation at all just the box's? what about the plugs at this point are they getting fouled from sucking oil? i will check mine today my bike was sucking oil into the throttle body on the left side hence the very larger puff of blue smoke my buddy rode thru i mean large & a real nice blue color
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
well after a short hard ride still pucking just a spray on the inside of air box  oil level uis half way on the stick so i vented it into a small puke bottle mounted on the down tube dosent matter at this point its only go ing to the track thanks JR & L train hope you guys figure this out very annoying to say the least. so if the bike is still spraying oil into the air box could this be from still having too much oil in it? do i need to pull tank to check plugs? does anyone have an easy way to do this? my dealer did overfill my bike he called next day & told me how to check it, 2 turkey basters over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
844 Posts
L-TRAIN,

I followed your link above about the "steel mesh filter for the crankcase vent" -- and it didn't lead me to anything that explained what you did, precisely where you put it, and exactly what your rationale was -- (steel mesh wouldn't really prevent oil from backing up if the problem was negative pressure sucking it into the Airbox -- would it??)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
752 Posts
tomph1 said:
   L-TRAIN,Â

     I followed your link above about the "steel mesh filter for the crankcase vent" -- and it didn't lead me to anything that explained what you did, precisely where you put it, and exactly what your rationale was -- (steel mesh wouldn't really prevent oil from backing up if the problem was negative pressure sucking it into the Airbox -- would it??)
Sorry. I didn't explain it very well.

It now vents seperately. No longer vents into the airbox so if it was negative pressure there is none.

Make sense?

IE the crankcase vent is seperate from the airbox now.

I didn this because I did the ram air mod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
752 Posts
I modified the airbox intakes with the ram air intakes (homemade until the tornado comes out) and when I did this i ran a separate vent for the crankcase. I did not do it for the oil back up but as I got to thinking about the different posts and my own experience. It seems that the airbox doesn't fill up as fast as the cylinders can suck air in. So if the airbox is running at a deficit to the engine and sucking in air as fast as it can why wouldn't is suck at the crankcase vent too? And IF the crankcase has a lot of pressure in it why wouldn't it suck oil into the airbox?

Anyway with my vent no where near an airbox there would be nothing to suck it out.

In my link the crankcase vent is low down on the right side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
752 Posts
J R said:
After thinking about this I think L-train may be onto something.I once made some cheater parts for a certain vehicle using that principle and it added 1.2 h.p on a small restricted engine using crankcase pressure or should i say putting it where i wanted it.I think it could in fact pull oil but i will look at it this week and test the bike to find out for sure.I don't really have any problems other than i have noticed oil in the airboxes everytime i pull them apart and I know my oil level is right if not a tad low :bigthumbsup:
JR will get to the bottom of this. At least he will prove or dissprove my theory.

Thanks JR. I would test the theory but I am not having the problem and my system isn't set up for a decent test.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
752 Posts
What I am personally thinking (and could very well be wrong) Crank pressure is the amount of oil pressure at the crank, not air pressure at the vent. We know that the airbox isn't pressurized. Their may be pressure at the crank but having it vent to the airbox wouldn't change that much. If it did all it would do is create a deficit (vacuum) under full throttle. When you aren't under full throttle the engine wouldn't be running the airbox at a deficit it would instead be positive pressure. So if anything the airbox would alter the pressure at the crank as your driving style changes.

So my separate vent should allow the crank to maintain constant pressure which should be fine. Also there isn't going to be anything to blow-by if all the oil is in the airbox.

This could all be the ramblings of a overstuffed fourth of July barbecue victim and look insane when I read it tomorrow. (disclaimer)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
somebody please answer my ??? where are the plugs & what is the easiest way to check them??????? & what about the no filter ??? will it make the bike run lean???? my bike runs better wo air filters on the low end side much smoother
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
752 Posts
Sorry. Haven't checked the plugs but there are 2 per cylinder. They are on top of the cylinders, underneath the cylinder covers. Pull them out and look at them. Do you know what a fouled plug plug looks like? You will have to remove your tank.

Also check out pages 7-10 through pages 7-14 of your owners manual.

It might make the bike run lean but worse it might suck in debris, even at the track. I would be nervous about it.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
yes L train i know what a fouled plug looks sort of like that chicken you ate on the 4 th! THANKS for the info bike runs really good WO filters!!!! but yes I know i need to get something in There will be working on that thursday race nite tonight , bike stopped puking oil just spraying it now
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top