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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)


Above is a pic of 3 different sets of wave washer, seat, and #6 drive plates. These were oem to their perspective bikes and were replaced due to shudder. Ths post is for the doubters and "type of oil" solvers and for those who just want to know. The doubters---this is for real and evryone will experience this at some point (wether you admit it or not). The "oil type" guys, well if no oil is ever getting to these parts and the ajoining clutch plates (fibers/steels), then how does the type of oil ever going to matter. The pics below show the damage to the #6 plate from the wave washer due to lack of oil.



See the line above where the "teeth" are. That line at the base of the plate where the teeth begin. That is a groove wore into the plate from the inside diameter of the wave washer. That gooey mess on the plate is from a very tiny bit of oil, that was probably from the factory soaked plates, and has since fried/baked to the plate from lack of further oiling which caused way to much heat to occur.



The line is a bit more visible in this set that was completely fried (plates included) from mis-adjustment of the cable.



That line is even more visible in this cleaned up plate. The wear is approx. 1/3rd of the thickness of the plate worn into it.



Now the above pic is the reverse side of its corresponding pic from above it. Yes, you could just flip that plate around in the stack and save some money, but unless you do the Adjustment Pin Mod (not the push pin--which is the black plastic push pin that is used throughout our bike) that wear will continue to come back again. I recommend doing the pin mod for oiling---yes, it will get some oil to your plates. I also recommend doing the 3 sides ground as opposed to the 2 side grind. Reason for that is when you grind 2 sides, if ground too much, there is a chance for side play in the pin to occur. If you grind 3 sides, you do not need to grind as much into it and the chances of side play are greatly reduced.

Just for everyone, I have taken apart atleast 30 9's for this very reason---clutch shudder. Every 9 taken apart, the clutch plates showed zero oil on them. Those bikes have run various types of oil ie: amsoil, suzuki dyno and synth, mobile 1 auto and MC, rotella, royal purple, honda, castrol 4t, and others. Our clutch is advertised to be a semi-wet clutch, but none have been wet in any form. So, the type of oil matters not, the parts speak for that. Yes, for those that just want to do the pin mod, that might work---but the damage to the #6 plate is already there and not allowing proper tension on the wave washer due to the wear (groove). So, I highly recommend you replace the parts. It should eliminate the shudder if you replace the parts and do the pin mod. One without the other, well it probably will come back at some point.

I hope this helps your understanding of what is going on inside your clutch pack and gives you a bit more info or reason to do it the right way. Any questions, well you know where I am at.

Sent from EVO bouncing off a couple satellites.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Were those mine or the set you showed me when I was there?
One set is yours, I think. Done so many, I am starting to lose track of which and the ones tossed in the can.
 

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Matt,

What type of $$$ are we talking about to fully address this problem. I do not have the dreaded shudder as of yet but it looks as though it's only a matter or time from what I've read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Matt,

What type of $$$ are we talking about to fully address this problem. I do not have the dreaded shudder as of yet but it looks as though it's only a matter or time from what I've read.
Well, the cost of the parts usually around $50 for the parts. The time to replace parts and do the pin mod is usually around 1.5hrs. I almost always will do the bluey fix and go ahead and do the tube nut also. So, my time is usually closer to 2-2.5hrs from start to finish--depends somewhat on the exhaust. So the hourly rate will vary on most of you---hence the cost will vary. For me, parts/labor to just replace parts and modificaions, well you are into about the $170 range (exhaust dependant). Almost all have had me do other things and mods at the same time. It is also a great time to do the front mounts if they have never been replaced before.
 

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This is some really great info. I don't have the shudder yet, but i will surely remember this post.
 

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Thanks for clarification , I never had clutch shudder ,
but this winter I am using the how-to by Listan 1
and I am doing the "adjustment pin mod " ( :D see I'm with you on changing the
nickname of this mod ) , I had read in some thread about doing 3 flat spots
instead of 2 , but it was not mentioned often , and there was no explanation
about ;why 3 and not 2 flat spots , now I know better .
I guess as you say ,I will order my motor mounts ,
and replace them while the exhaust is off the bike .
..
Motor mounts part # 11652-10G30 , get 4 , ( or 6)
# 22 = Adjustment pin # 23121-41G00 not needed , but mod it 3 sides
# 06 = plate clutch drive # 2 l T:2.0 #21441-48G40 --11.98
# 12 = seat wave washer .#21471-48G00 --$ 9.01
# 13 = washer clutch plate #21472-48G10 -- $ 16.50
..
so if I get it right , best to get parts : 12 , 13 , and 6
..
image from : http://www.onlinecyclepart.com/page...i/VZR1800_(2008)/CLUTCH/022950007/56022950022
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Matt,
Do you use 21441-48G10 or 21441-48G40?
You use what ever the current part # is for the #6 item showing on the clutch fiche. If it shows a different number than what other sites are showing, it will be the most up to date part when it arrives to you. When Suzuki changes a part/part#, all other preceeded numbers get pulled from the shelf. So if you see the item #6 it will be current when it comes to you. The #7,8 and I think 9, are just thicker versions of #6. You should always use #6. The others should only be used by someone who really knows how to measure stack height and clutch packs in general. #6 will suffice for the average person and being on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
..
Motor mounts part # 11652-10G30 , get 4 ,
# 22 = Adjustment pin # 23121-41G00 not needed , but mod it 3 sides
# 06 = plate clutch drive # 2 l T:2.0 #21441-48G40 --11.98
# 12 = seat wave washer .#21471-48G00 --$ 9.01
# 13 = washer clutch plate #21472-48G10 -- $ 16.50

.. so if I get it right , best to get parts : 12 , 13 and, 6

..
image from : http://www.onlinecyclepart.com/page...i/VZR1800_(2008)/CLUTCH/022950007/56022950022
Yes, #6, 12, 13. #22 is already in your motor, no need to buy it, just modifiy it accordingly.
 

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Great pictures Matt, and great explanation on what is and isn't happening in there. :bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:
 

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Very informative, thanks for the info Matt:bigthumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Guys, you are more than welcome for this. I did this to try and put to bed some of the myths of solutions for the issue. There really is only one solution and one cause. For those that have never had an issue, as said before, it is only a matter of time.
 

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Matt, have you ever considered taking the proof that your mod actually fixes the shudder problem directly to Suzuki engineering? It would be nice if Suzuki would start incorporating this mod into their new 9s so people aren't having this problem. You certainly should have enough proof to make your case....and there's a slew of people in this site alone who would back you up if you needed it....
 

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Matt, have you ever considered taking the proof that your mod actually fixes the shudder problem directly to Suzuki engineering? It would be nice if Suzuki would start incorporating this mod into their new 9s so people aren't having this problem. You certainly should have enough proof to make your case....and there's a slew of people in this site alone who would back you up if you needed it....
I couldn't agree more. Last Friday I had my tube nut back off and I shaved my pin down. It hasn't run better. Shifts a lot easier now and it runs great.
 
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