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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Purchased my 2017 m109r from an Indian dealer locally. Looked, ran, felt solid, 1895mi on it. Ran like a champ until a few weeks ago, last odometer reading was 9257mi, coming up on my 3rd oil and gear oil change. I made it up the drive way, down the alley, made my left turn and the 'rear wheel locked up'. It would roll a foot or 2, if that, and then stop. I managed to roll this heavy bastard back into my garage and let it sit until last night because I had other issues to deal with.

Fast forward to last night I go to troubleshoot and track down where the trouble actually was. Jacked her up, made sure it was in neutral and started rolling the rear wheel. Noise is coming from the secondary gear housing, "Ah shit", and a quick search told me this is not gonna be pretty. Pulled out the speedo sensor and was gifted with confetti - another "Ah shit".


Fuck it - lets do this. Yes I read through the manual, yes I read through the forum and know this is not a quick and easy change if I even want to look...but I do. So I did. I prefer to learn and do things my own- I will pay the dumbass tax if I get myself into too big of a hole - admitting defeat isn't easy but I can do it. Apart from the exhaust and some visual parts I haven't torn into this bike much yet on my own, also my first shaft drive to work on.

Rear wheel came off probably even easier than the chained bike I'm used to, after special ordering an 18mm hex. My $40 kit apparently skips 18mm. Nothing to note here - everything looks good, +1.

Loosen and carefully remove the drive shaft. Also all looks good here, splines are all straight and clean, no shavings or debris - another +1 in my book.

I gotta admit I was a little shocked at what I saw. What is that lil guy going in there? And how did he even get there?



Oh...found his washer buddy in the housing as well.





The bolt 'holding' the secondary gear set sheared off and fell in? Like I said I was kind of shocked at what the issue actually was. I'll be inspecting the housing assembly internals and assess what damage is done, will probably just replace, in there but now I know I have to pull this engine and somehow extract this bolt out.

I'm curious as to how that can happen? Has anyone else seen this before?
 

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I don't recall, in all the years I've been on this site, seeing that. Had mine going on 16 years now, not had any major issues. Despite the fact the 2006 was known to have them.

I hope you get it all sorted out and get back to riding it soonest. Here, we are heading for winter time. Not much riding for the next four months or so. A day here or there, if lucky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't recall, in all the years I've been on this site, seeing that. Had mine going on 16 years now, not had any major issues. Despite the fact the 2006 was known to have them.
It seems to me to be a very "odd" sort of failure to happen and the only thing I can assume happened is it slowly backed its way out until it got sheared?

I'm just glad it happened going 5mph and not 75mph.
 
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It seems to me to be a very "odd" sort of failure to happen and the only thing I can assume happened is it slowly backed its way out until it got sheared?

I'm just glad it happened going 5mph and not 75mph.
No I havent seen the same failure, but if you will read
this thread whole, it might help you somewhat.. I hope.
Cheers! 🍻

Secondary Drive Fail
 

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I don't recall ever seeing that bolt shear on a 109 either. The drive gear is splined to the shaft so the bolt should just be holding the gear in place. I'm guessing they overtorqued it during assembly and it just now decided to separate.

I have seen on or two of those on M90's that the bolt sheared off.
 

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I have seen it back out and shear off. we had threads showing so we could get it out. Since that is part of your transmission, might as well and get the gears back cut and get hardened shift rods and forks. You have to remove the rear jug and split the case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have seen it back out and shear off. we had threads showing so we could get it out. Since that is part of your transmission, might as well and get the gears back cut and get hardened shift rods and forks. You have to remove the rear jug and split the case.
I am definitely considering the undercutting of the gears. I was also going to ask for suggestions on other things to look at or go ahead and upgrade/replace since I'm going to be that far in - I'll take a look for hardened shift rods, thankyou.
 

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I am definitely considering the undercutting of the gears. I was also going to ask for suggestions on other things to look at or go ahead and upgrade/replace since I'm going to be that far in - I'll take a look for hardened shift rods, thankyou.
I think R&D Motor Sports in Florida is still undercutting gears, and I think they were also supplying the solid shift rods and hardened forks. Bigpapa can chip in if there is someone else being used now.
 

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I am definitely considering the undercutting of the gears. I was also going to ask for suggestions on other things to look at or go ahead and upgrade/replace since I'm going to be that far in - I'll take a look for hardened shift rods, thankyou.
You're welcome. R&D Motorsports in clearwater is the only place we deal with. In terms of things to look for, nothing else in my opinion. He will send you the hardened shift forks and rods with your transmission after he is done. He basically magnafluxes it and will make sure it is perfect. There is a video out there for drilling out the oil jet to allow more oil to the clutch as well. That is something you can think about doing to prevent the infamous clutch shudder. You will need a gasket set, which has the head gaskets in it and other things. You need to remove the generator bolt, and that requires a special took as well and it is in the manual. Feel free to hit me up and I can help you through it. The timing is your biggest challenge as you need to make sure you do it correctly, or you will need to go back in. You can actually time it 180 degrees off.
 

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I think R&D Motor Sports in Florida is still undercutting gears, and I think they were also supplying the solid shift rods and hardened forks. Bigpapa can chip in if there is someone else being used now.
You are correct Mike. There are other companies out there doing it. I have spoken to a couple and have come to the conclusion that they are idiots and don't know what they are talking about. One, located in Kentucky, told me they simply back cut the gears and call it a day. I asked him why they don't address shift forks and rods and he told me it wasn't necessary. The design flaw is the fact that the shift fork has issues. Believe it or not, the shift fork is the only change in all 3 transmission updates from Suzuki. It is the ball at the end that wears. They changed that to bulk it up so that it doesn't wear as quickly. However, If you simply back cut the transmission and either leave the bad shift fork or put stock in, you are not going to 100% fix the issue. Back cutting helps, but if the new shift fork goes bad, going to have similar issues. That is the reason we use R&D. More expensive but don't need to go back in and redo it at a later date.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You need to remove the generator bolt, and that requires a special took as well and it is in the manual. Feel free to hit me up and I can help you through it. The timing is your biggest challenge as you need to make sure you do it correctly, or you will need to go back in. You can actually time it 180 degrees off.
I guess I am at the point of deciding how much of this do I actually want to do myself. Historically I've done all my own mechanic work, I have most of the tools and end up buying the required ones as needed. Clutches, transmission swaps, suspension installs, brakes, intake valve cleaning etc. But I've never pulled far into an engine and not gonna lie - I'm a little intimidated. I have a buddy who was a Yamaha tech who is more than willing to help but he also is on the road a lot so I cannot plan on him too much. I just do not want to get myself to a point where I start thinking I'm in too far over my head. But I'm also always looking to save money and learn something if I can do it myself.

Basically my brain is here:
1. Trailer the bike somewhere and let them fix it all
2. Pull the engine myself and take it somewhere to fix it and slap her back in
3. Do all the work myself, before and after the work done at R&D.

I haven't called them for a quote yet but I'm sure it is at a premium to be repaired/updated. And I'm not opposed to paying - especially if it is done as professional and correct as stated, but I also like to keep as much as I can in my wallet ;)
 

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I guess I am at the point of deciding how much of this do I actually want to do myself. Historically I've done all my own mechanic work, I have most of the tools and end up buying the required ones as needed. Clutches, transmission swaps, suspension installs, brakes, intake valve cleaning etc. But I've never pulled far into an engine and not gonna lie - I'm a little intimidated. I have a buddy who was a Yamaha tech who is more than willing to help but he also is on the road a lot so I cannot plan on him too much. I just do not want to get myself to a point where I start thinking I'm in too far over my head. But I'm also always looking to save money and learn something if I can do it myself.

Basically my brain is here:
1. Trailer the bike somewhere and let them fix it all
2. Pull the engine myself and take it somewhere to fix it and slap her back in
3. Do all the work myself, before and after the work done at R&D.

I haven't called them for a quote yet but I'm sure it is at a premium to be repaired/updated. And I'm not opposed to paying - especially if it is done as professional and correct as stated, but I also like to keep as much as I can in my wallet ;)
Sorry for the delay, as I didn't get a notification for some reason. Option 2 is not an option. The reason being is that if they time it wrong, or it jumps time, you will have the motor in your bike and have to do that yourself. R&D is about $8-900 if you don't have anything major wrong. If they need to replace a gear or additional work it could be a couple hundred more. The last two we got were right at $1k.

If you do option 1, you are probably about $3500-$4500 for the job, unless you find someone who is extremely cheap. For us, here in Maryland, we are $2200 labor and it is about $2500 after new motor mounts, oil and a gasket set. Then you have the transmission cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you do option 1, you are probably about $3500-$4500 for the job, unless you find someone who is extremely cheap. For us, here in Maryland, we are $2200 labor and it is about $2500 after new motor mounts, oil and a gasket set. Then you have the transmission cost.
No worries and no apologies! Any response is a great response. I am going towards option 3 and always have been, I just need to get over my inhibitions and just do it.

I plan to start next week (torqued my neck funky and its not happy this week) and plan on keeping a running log here of what I do, same as I do my car on that forum. I'll call R&D this week and see what they quote - I'll assume the gears themselves are ok but plan on having them replace what they recommend- undercuts, shift forks etc.
 

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No worries and no apologies! Any response is a great response. I am going towards option 3 and always have been, I just need to get over my inhibitions and just do it.

I plan to start next week (torqued my neck funky and its not happy this week) and plan on keeping a running log here of what I do, same as I do my car on that forum. I'll call R&D this week and see what they quote - I'll assume the gears themselves are ok but plan on having them replace what they recommend- undercuts, shift forks etc.
Sounds great. And like I said, I am there to help you if you need it. Where are you located?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm a slacker and haven't done anything yet. Work has been super busy and I really haven't been motivated yet - apart from seeing other ride by.
 

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I'm a slacker and haven't done anything yet. Work has been super busy and I really haven't been motivated yet - apart from seeing other ride by.
Forgot to mention, take a TON of pictures during disassembly. It may take you 6-8 weeks to get the transmission back and then you will start questioning things. We have a clipboard with about 25 or so line items. Each item matches a corresponding. gallon zip lock bag with a number on it. When you are ready to reassemble, you should get back to the first bag and have no extra parts.
 
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