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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I amways thought one of the main reasons for going to FI over a carb was that the computer could then compensate for changes day to day and help with cold starts etc...
My manual is still X days away and I have not had my bike apart like many of you.

So my question is, Does it have ANY sensors that would help it adjust the air/fuel mixture? At all? I am guessing yes but I hate to guess. Someone mentioned a sensor under the tank I think. BUT the 49 state version does not have a sensor in the exhaust so if it does compensate it wont be very sophisticated. I have seen a few posts about this but it still was not clear to me. I am guessing this is one of the reasons they run it so rich and that many have not had a "LEAN" issue when doing some of the mods with a fueler....

Second, When I put the PCIII on and set a map will the FI system still be able to make those simple changes??


Sledzep
 

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Your bike does have sensors to adjust for certain conditions...... however it is not a
"closed loop system", that is it can't compenstate/learn for big changes in exhaust backpressure, or increased intake flow.



The pc3 changes the signal to the injectors..... after the ECU, so any changes made for airpressure, throttle postiion, etc are still make by the ECU and passed on to the pc3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So it works like the speedlimit??

I usually go 20 over...
If it says 70, I feel I can get away with 90, says 65, I do 85... Like that? so I will still get a little compensation??

THNX

Sledzep
 

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Not really, more of "where it will be placed on the fuel map". Below is not a m109 fuel map, but it's to give you an idea who it works

Depending on sensors, you will be using a portino of the map... however it does not alter the map.

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think Ive got it. I appreciate the help. I will be getting one so I can get a little more out of the bike

Sledzep
 

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got mine this week. running stock map with drilled pipes. you wont be sorry. :bigthumbsup: :super: :doorag:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am hoping to be running the PCIII a custom intake, and drilled pipes for my trip to the BBQ...

::) ::) With a map I find here ::) ::)

As I will probably not have the time to hit the dyno till after I return. I believe someone is already running a similar setup.

Sledzep
 

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good info Jeff. I also read a good article on FI by a guy who dyno tunes bikes both carb'd and FI'd. The bottom line is yes there are sensors that help determine what the ECU needs to do but they do not compensate for tuning issues. I also read that even closed loop FI systems go outside the loop in some cases. For instance when cold the closed loop is turned off and the system relies on a cold start map that gets turned off and back over to closed loop once the temps sensor comes into play. The reasoning makes sense due to needing a richer mixture but not wanting the o2 sensor to be reading in closed loop which would be fighting to lean it out. Also under WOT (wide open throttle) conditions the system diverts to a map for the same reasons above when you need that extra shot of fuel but do not want the o2 sensor to see it and complain.
 

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steve j said:
good info Jeff. I also read a good article on FI by a guy who dyno tunes bikes both carb'd and FI'd. The bottom line is yes there are sensors that help determine what the ECU needs to do but they do not compensate for tuning issues. I also read that even closed loop FI systems go outside the loop in some cases. For instance when cold the closed loop is turned off and the system relies on a cold start map that gets turned off and back over to closed loop once the temps sensor comes into play. The reasoning makes sense due to needing a richer mixture but not wanting the o2 sensor to be reading in closed loop which would be fighting to lean it out. Also under WOT (wide open throttle) conditions the system diverts to a map for the same reasons above when you need that extra shot of fuel but do not want the o2 sensor to see it and complain.
According to Dyno jet who makes the power commander the m109r does compensate for less restrictive air cleaners. It will richen the mixture up by a certain percentage per what the pressure sensors see . this doesn't mean it will richen it up to make the best power but it will stay in the safe zone. this is why you would want to get a map done for your bike. My 109 has no o2 sensor and I have yet to see one that does. Thats why this bike adjust its stock map VIA the pressure sensors , TPS , and IAT sensors. If you reduce the restriction in the intake track the pressure sensors see the manifold vacuum drop how ever much and tell the ECU to richen it up by a scheduled amount that the engineers have come up with . Like .5 inches of mercury drop in manifold restriction at a giving throttle position at a certain air inlet temp will equal a certain % increase in fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I bought my PCIII just the other day from DLP along with the Iso grips and blue rings. The lights I chose were on back order.
Got a great deal too.

MAN I have been spending some cash lately. I have a bunch of stuff to do before the BBQ.
I will probably run the default on the PCIII unless someone posts a map for mods similar to mine. I wont have Dyno $$ till October maybe

Sledzep
 

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I am not disagreeing with you Maniac just was passing on some info on closed loop FI which the USA, Canada do not use but Euro, UK, and Aussie bikes do run o2 sensors. The jist of what I was getting at is the closed loop systems still rely on a map similiar to what we have for certain conditions. And yes the 109 even without closed loop system will compensate for variables but not enough for true performance mods.
 

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sledzep01 said:
I bought my PCIII just the other day from DLP along with the Iso grips and blue rings. The lights I chose were on back order.
Got a great deal too.

MAN I have been spending some cash lately. I have a bunch of stuff to do before the BBQ.
I will probably run the default on the PCIII unless someone posts a map for mods similar to mine. I wont have Dyno $$ till October maybe

Sledzep
I Would use lomonsters map until you get a chance to get your bike mapped . Thats what I have installed in my bike with modified air cleaners , drilled out stock exhaust with SET disabled and the maniac mod done.Lamonster map made my bike feel allot stronger compared to map that dyno jet had set up in my power commander. I am happy with the way my bike is running now until I make it to the dyno. I added the accelerator pump function to Lamonster map and I love the way the bike responds going through the gears.
 

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maniac m109r said:
According to Dyno jet who makes the power commander the m109r does compensate for less restrictive air cleaners. It will richen the mixture up by a certain percentage per what the pressure sensors see . this doesn't mean it will richen it up to make the best power but it will stay in the safe zone. this is why you would want to get a map done for your bike. My 109 has no o2 sensor and I have yet to see one that does. Thats why this bike adjust its stock map VIA the pressure sensors , TPS , and IAT sensors. If you reduce the restriction in the intake track the pressure sensors see the manifold vacuum drop how ever much and tell the ECU to richen it up by a scheduled amount that the engineers have come up with . Like .5 inches of mercury drop in manifold restriction at a giving throttle position at a certain air inlet temp will equal a certain % increase in fuel.
No suzuki has a o2 sensors.... it uses the above sensors to used a place on the fuel map examples like I posted. So if you change the input or output.... the poor f/i has no clue about it. THat is exactly why the pc3 works on Suzuki bikes...... it is programmed iva dyno mapping to compenstat for cahnges that the stock ECU can't do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Doesnt the california bikes have an extra sensor in the exhaust?
I thought I read that months ago when people were first installing some exhausts.

Sledzep

Maniac, I will give that a try till I can run some dyno time.
 
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