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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Friday on my way home a car pulled out in front of me from a street to my right. Didn't even see me...hell don't even think he looked. Any way, I had to jump on the binders rather hard and my rear wheel locked up and the rear end started coming around. I released and reapplied to stop the skid but my question is what made the rear end start coming around? If I hadn't had time to release and reapply I might have laid her down. What did I do wrong? :confused:
 

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Im thinkin maybe you were subconsciously swerving as you were panic braking?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
horseplay said:
Im thinkin maybe you were swerving as you were panic braking?
I'm pretty sure. I mean the bike slowed rather rapidly but the a$$end just started coming around on the right side. It was not a good feeling.

By the way...the driver of the car didn't even see me lockin' 'em up. I almost turned around and chased him down but thought that would be stupid.
 

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sheesh...got lucky anyway :)
sounds maybe like while the rear was locked up you were leaning a bit to the left out of pure gut reaction to the car pulling out on the right.......and once that rear tire locks up it slides like its on ice
Thats my uneducated guess :bigthumbsup:
 

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When thing happen unexpectedly you can't alway be prepared. It sounds like you did the best you could and thats great :bigthumbsup:Thankfully Suzuki gave great binders and you were able to stop in time. I'd say 90% of our braking power is done with the front brake so don't be afraid to use it.
 

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horseplay said:
Im thinkin maybe you were subconsciously swerving as you were panic braking?
1+ If you are going straight and not leaning, the back end will not try to come around if it starts to skid. That's why they teach you to maintain rear brake pressure even if the tire skids, whereas if the front tire skids, you are supposed to release and reapply pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Come to think about it I was coming out of a turn in the road and was leaning to the left. Scary situation though. That's the closest I've come to a problem so I consider my self very lucky.
 

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When I used to roadrace one of the first we learned the hard way was to not use the rear brake in an emergency braking situation. The front brake will prevent the rear from swinging around in most cases. You were really lucky to not highside yourself. If it had been any worse this is what usually happens: rider slams rear brake on too hard, suspension loads up in the rear, suspension then unloads violently, rear slides out to one side while skidding, rider immediately lets off of brake trying to regain traction, tire regains traction while still being kicked too far out sideways, bike violently swings out in the opposite direction, rider is lterally ejected from bike over the handlebars. This is one of the worst single vehicle motorcycle crashes you can have other than hitting something.
You should practice emergency stops by applying the front brake ONLY and then using the rear to assist, but the front should be used first to settle the suspension down to avoid the "wallowing" affect of upsetting the weight of the bike. This is what causes the rear to step out.
Try to get out of the habit of going for the rear brake every time you stop. That is a habit we bring from driving cages. Once you get used to going for the front brakes, you will avoid a highside. Don't worry about locking up the front either. We used to come into turns at over 100 mph and never touch the rear brakes. The front is harder to lock up than you might think. Maybe at very slow speeds, but that wouldn't really be an emergency stop in most cases. Ideally you want to hit the front, settle the suspension, then finish a stop with the rear.
Sorry for the long post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
slowpoke387 said:
 When I used to roadrace one of the first we learned the hard way was to not use the rear brake in an emergency braking situation. The front brake will prevent the rear from swinging around in most cases. You were really lucky to not highside yourself. If it had been any worse this is what usually happens: rider slams rear brake on too hard, suspension loads up in the rear, suspension then unloads violently, rear slides out to one side while skidding, rider immediately lets off of brake trying to regain traction, tire regains traction while still being kicked too far out sideways, bike violently swings out in the opposite direction, rider is lterally ejected from bike over the handlebars. This is one of the worst single vehicle motorcycle crashes you can have other than hitting something.
 You should practice emergency stops by applying the front brake ONLY and then using the rear to assist, but the front should be used first to settle the suspension down to avoid the "wallowing" affect of upsetting the weight of the bike. This is what causes the rear to step out.
 Try to get out of the habit of going for the rear brake every time you stop. That is a habit we bring from driving cages. Once you get used to going for the front brakes, you will avoid a highside. Don't worry about locking up the front either. We used to come into turns at over 100 mph and never touch the rear brakes. The front is harder to lock up than you might think. Maybe at very slow speeds, but that wouldn't really be an emergency stop in most cases. Ideally you want to hit the front, settle the suspension, then finish a stop with the rear.
 Sorry for the long post. Â
Â
Great explanation and thanks for the technical info. I think it would be a good idea for me to practice some hard braking in an abandoned parking lot somewhere in order to gain some experience of the results. I just always felt that if I only used the front brake the rear may become airborne. Guess that's not true. I'm gonna do some practicing.
 

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When the rear locks up, it's actually breaking less than the front (assuming it's not locked up too). It's just physics. Think in reverse, with the rear breaking less than the front, it's actually accelerating vs the front. It has to go somewhere; and unless you have the bike very well aligned (straight), whichever of the rear side has deflection to it, that's the side the rear end is going to accelerate to - and start coming around.

Very glad you were able to let off in time and aviod the accident. I've locked my rear up twice now, one was pretty interesting. Like pointed out above (and it's real hard to do), the rear is not what you want to hit first and with the most emphasis when having to make an aggressive stop.
 

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slowpoke387 said:
When I used to roadrace one of the first we learned the hard way was to not use the rear brake in an emergency braking situation. The front brake will prevent the rear from swinging around in most cases. You were really lucky to not highside yourself. If it had been any worse this is what usually happens: rider slams rear brake on too hard, suspension loads up in the rear, suspension then unloads violently, rear slides out to one side while skidding, rider immediately lets off of brake trying to regain traction, tire regains traction while still being kicked too far out sideways, bike violently swings out in the opposite direction, rider is lterally ejected from bike over the handlebars. This is one of the worst single vehicle motorcycle crashes you can have other than hitting something.
You should practice emergency stops by applying the front brake ONLY and then using the rear to assist, but the front should be used first to settle the suspension down to avoid the "wallowing" affect of upsetting the weight of the bike. This is what causes the rear to step out.
Try to get out of the habit of going for the rear brake every time you stop. That is a habit we bring from driving cages. Once you get used to going for the front brakes, you will avoid a highside. Don't worry about locking up the front either. We used to come into turns at over 100 mph and never touch the rear brakes. The front is harder to lock up than you might think. Maybe at very slow speeds, but that wouldn't really be an emergency stop in most cases. Ideally you want to hit the front, settle the suspension, then finish a stop with the rear.
Sorry for the long post.
When the info is good no post is to long. :bigthumbsup: And as was also said,
when the rear locks it is not breaking as much as front. It will pass you, if your
leaning or not it has to somewhere if it is going faster. the best thing to do is let
it slide once it has locked up, back and forth by leaning or whatever works. don't let up,
you loose distance for breaking big time. or my highside as was mentioned. Speaking
from experience, :redfaced: I shouldn't have let up, may still have my Bandit and could
trade in on a 109. Oh well :dontknow:
 

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What did I do wrong?
this is one of the exercises taught at the MSF course. you aren't supposed to swerve while braking. you can brake up to the swerve point, but then you have to let off, swerve, then brake again if needed. they teach it for a reason.

i had an idiot pull out and try to t-bone me yesterday. had to use this very technique. i ended up in swerving in front of him, and gave him the one fingered wave. after that i tried to slow down enough to keep him in sight, but he kept backing off. my plan was to follow him and confront him (and to beat him til he wasn't moving anymore if no one was around) to teach him a few things about driving. he lost me at a turn, and by the time i turned around and got back to him, there was a cop pulling over a different car. unfortunately the bastard got away.

i've had it with this bullshit we have to put up with, and refuse to sit idly by anymore. he was some POS ******* driving a beat up truck with not all of the lights working...pulling out of a liquor store on a sat night (probably already drunk).
 

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brbluetele said:
Friday on my way home a car pulled out in front of me from a street to my right. Didn't even see me...hell don't even think he looked. Any way, I had to jump on the binders rather hard and my rear wheel locked up and the rear end started coming around. I released and reapplied to stop the skid but my question is what made the rear end start coming around? If I hadn't had time to release and reapply I might have laid her down. What did I do wrong? :confused:
If you didn't hit anything and didn't go down...it seems you did everything right enough...
 

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I agree with Horseplay, I've found that if you are favoring one side or the other when Braking,the rear end will go the opposite every time.

and it's hard to be straight up when the unthinkable happens.

Phaed --- yea the braking in curves was one of the fun exercises we had to do in MSF course :D They had you come into the corner at a pretty good clip then straighten the bike up, lay down on the brakes with-out locking up the rear ,while staying in your lane,I found it Quite Fun myself while others found it nerve Racking :D But then again I've always be a performance Nut :D :bigthumbsup:
 

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Well the back end started coming around because a sliding tire is faster than a rolling tire. I have my cdl license and when to school about braking. So any way thats why the rear end was coming around hope this helps. :doorag:
 

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tax2dth is right the laws of physics have taken over with reduced friction (traction) the rear is actually going faster than the front of the bike and actually trying to pass the front such as a trailer in jackknife situation. :bigthumbsup: :read:
 

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So you should lock up the front so it can at least keep up right :D J/K :D

Yea it sounds crazy But Physics make it right,after the lost of traction then Momentum takes over :eek: :D
 

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BTW, the power cruisers are no where near as twitchy when you release a locked rear wheel as sportbikes or standard bikes are. The low center of gravity and longer wheel bases really help out in this case. Also, I try to practice locking it up once or twice a week on purpose. It keeps the feeling of it fresh in my mind so that way when it happens in a panic situation there is less of a chance of leaving a mess in my pants.
 

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Reread what 'slowpoke387' wrote and you'll have the braking thing down. Better yet, take the MSF Safe Rider course. Its incrdibly informative; you would not have reacted with the back brake had you been armed with the knowledge/experience from the course. Either way, ride safe and you've got excellent advice and support here. Good thinking to tap into this resource!
 

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horseplay said:
sheesh...got lucky anyway :)
sounds maybe like while the rear was locked up you were leaning a bit to the left out of pure gut reaction to the car pulling out on the right.......and once that rear tire locks up it slides like its on ice
Thats my uneducated guess :bigthumbsup:
Logically speaking... I've noticed my bike never seems to ride EXACTLY straight up. Only when I'm in a perfectly graded parking lot or street. If the street, road, highway or interstate I am on has ANY grade or "crown", I have to lean the bike just a little to keep it going straight. I attribute that to the wider rear tire. Most of the time, it's such a small amount that it feels natural. What most likely happened was the road was crowned and that's what caused the rear end to come out to the right, which is likely the way the road was crowned.
 
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