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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought an '08 box-stock c-109r yesterday. It has 1,200 miles on it! Garage art, at it's finest. But not anymore...

My only problem with it,in general, is that it's black. I like VISIBLE bikes. If they see you, they might not try to run you over....

My soon to be former (if things go right) bike is a yamaha fjr-1300a. Two problems cause me to quit this world-class machine: The riding position makes my right leg hurt, and hurt bad - so much i can not enjoy riding it, and there are no fixes, due to the [email protected]$%^&* fairing. Then there's the shocking, unbelievable power of that thing. I just can't resist it. That bike will kill me - it's only matter of when.

Lately, my wife says if i used the time i've passed on researching bikes on something productive, we'd be rich. We are rich. We just don't have a lot of money - that's all .)

OK - end boring intro :)

I came into this as well-informed as is possible. I know these bikes are quite rare. I also know of the transmission problem. From what I have read, the fix for the trans is to use 20w-50 oil and not run the thing like it is a track bike. Still, I need more info.

I hear changing the oil is not simple? I'll find out, today. The simple thing, it would seem, is to measure the oil that comes out, then put that much back in?

I will use rotella-t, 15w-40 because the bike, though 14 years old, is hardly broken in. I read where one guy said he used it and he had no problems - none, at all. I've used it all my life, whenever possible. I don't like synthetic oils. They wear out at about 2,000 miles. All you have to do is listen to your motor. It will tell you... Am I on the right track, here?

Is this the same bike as the m-109, just 'dressed out' differently? Or is it another bike, with the same motor?

I heard all about how heavy it is. When bringing it home from Kentucky, the pickup verified that! Strangely, I'm not having any problems with handling it at low speeds - something i sure can't say about a harley! It's so very easy to ride, so far, with one exception - the heel-toe shifter.

I suppose japanese feet are smaller - lol. I almost didn't buy it because it seemed to shift gears on it's own. But in both directions. The second gear thing is supposed to cause it to drop into neutral. It never did that and the 1,200 miles made 2nd gear thing highly unlikely. Turns out my foot has trouble being on the 'floorboard' without stepping on the shifter! That has GOT to go! For now, I think i'll just use a grinder to cut the back half off.

The tires, though brand new, are 14 years old. No dry rot or cracks but I know the rubber is old, and hard. While shopping for tires i see one: a bridgestone? naah! I'm a pilot road guy. Has anyone solved this? Is there ANYTHING else I can use?

It would seem, due to it's rarity, there would be few aftermarket parts available for this bike? I'll need to ditch the... 'beautiful' (gag, barf) handlebars, than get a wind shield? I don't do dealerships. Period. How have yall solved this?

If someone would take their time to run me through the basics, I'd like, really appreciate it?
 

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Welcome to the forum! My brother-in-law had a C109R. Its been a great bike. They can be kind-of quirky like the M109R and require "special procedures" when changing and checking the oil. If you put too much in, it will blow it out of the left side air cleaner. I believe you have to add 3 quarts, run it for a bit, and then add the rest. The oil pan has 2 sumps and if you try to put it all in at once you will be pouring some out on the floor! I'd recommend getting a hold of an owners and a service manual for the bike. They should be available for download somewhere. There is a WEALTH of information in each of them, including the oil change and check procedures.
 

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Welcome to the forum. :)

The only real similarities between the C and M is the engine, and even that is a little different. Same displacement obviously, but I think the cams are a little different as well as the throttle bodies to improve low end torque. And I read before that they have a heavier flywheel than the M. Exhausts are different, suspension is different, etc. Not really a lot of interchangeability between them.

A lot of us use the Shell Rotella oil in them. I use the T6 full synthetic in mine. I don't think many go as heavy as 20w-50 in them, but it probably won't hurt. I used the T6 in 5w-40 until they came out with it in 15w-40 then switched to that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for replying.

What fuel do you buy? The book says 91 but Europe uses a different method to arrive at octane. I seem to be doing great with mid-grade.

WHAT A MOTOR! My throttle is very sensitive but that is the product of the injector cleaner, I believe. My mirrors are crystal-clear, even at idle. There literally is no vibration - something I had not thought possible, with a v-twin. Could it be the 58 degree configuration?

My only bike with a fat rear tire was a Yamaha Raider. I had to bully that thing through every turn. It simply would not establish a smooth line. The raider was beautiful. It really turned heads! Other than that is was mediocre, in every way.

Today, unfortunately, we have a trip to St. Louis planned. We will introduce another couple to the joy of Dim Sum. Find myself regretting that, now. Basically, I don't want a pickle...

My history with motorcycles is about as long as any, I suppose. I always had the biggest, the baddest and the meanest but I drove them, with common sense. I've been run down, twice, by assholes with their noses in their fucking phones. It paid well .) That and the fact I never drink, along with a heavy dose of good luck, is why I am still alive!

I had my first bike when I was 8. If you choose to call and old, dead Cushman I found in the trash a motorcycle. It wasn't dead, for long! I'm 72, now. I remember the night several friends came over, bent on talking me out of buying a Norton. That thing will KILL you, man! They did kill a lot of people, that's for sure. But not me :) There's one thing, shared by every old biker - COMMON SENSE!

I had a 750, back in the day, and a gsx-1100g, which had it's fair share of problems (namely the carbs) as well. Hondas are great, but they have no soul - generic, in every sense of the word. My st-1300a was boring, from the very first ride... Each brand has it's own identity, it would seem. In my mind, the mark of a zuki is the suspension. It works, like no other.

I'm having trouble knowing what gear I'm in. 4th and 5th seem hard to discern. It seems 5th is like 6th in a harley - an overdrive, plain and simple. I spend a lot of time in 4th. The bike doesn't seem to care.

As I think back over my first real ride on the zuki yesterday, my mind fills with the sheer joy, of motorcycling. There is a backroad, between here and Paris, Il. It offers everthing a biker could want, especially a lack of traffic and, therefore, cops. There are two sweeping turns, marked at 45 mph. I entered them at 60, exited at around 75. My wife said I REALLY lean that bike over! But she never drug the pavement. I used the torque monster to dust a couple red necks, in their pickups. Awesome!

Sorry for gushing. Too soon, the zuki will simply be 'my bike.'
 

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It seems like you are really enjoying your new ride. I have been using mostly Rotella 15W-40 in all of my bikes. I switched to 20W-50 in the M109-R and it didn't make much if any difference. Unless the C-109 has a smaller sump, it should take the same volume as the M109-R, just under four quarts of oil. I put in four quarts and have not had a problem with it blowing out at high RPMs. I am almost 75 and still enjoy riding as much as I did when I was 16.
 

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Most on here use 93 octane if available, though a lot can't do better than 91 or 92 octane, I think that's 98 octane in Europe. I see the American flag under your avatar, are you here or in Europe?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Most on here use 93 octane if available, though a lot can't do better than 91 or 92 octane, I think that's 98 octane in Europe. I see the American flag under your avatar, are you here or in Europe?
the manual says 91 octane. 89 (mid-grade) is only 2 short BUT, since our fuel has alcohol in it, 89 should work. it does, here. but my current (first) tank has fuel injected cleaner in it. anything above what works is wasted money - especially today!

octane is an inverse, numeric representation of the burn rate of the fuel. higher number, slower burn. a higher number does not indicate more energy in the fuel. a tad less, in fact, as the additives that raise the number do not burn.

my take is the folk that think they need 91 octane should use a can of injector cleaner, then try the mid-grade. i could be wrong, of course. i sure hope not.

anyhow, i'm in the united police states :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Welcome to the forum! My brother-in-law had a C109R. Its been a great bike. They can be kind-of quirky like the M109R and require "special procedures" when changing and checking the oil. If you put too much in, it will blow it out of the left side air cleaner. I believe you have to add 3 quarts, run it for a bit, and then add the rest. The oil pan has 2 sumps and if you try to put it all in at once you will be pouring some out on the floor! I'd recommend getting a hold of an owners and a service manual for the bike. They should be available for download somewhere. There is a WEALTH of information in each of them, including the oil change and check procedures.
Thanks for the welcome. I changed the oil. I had zero problems. She likes the rotella!

Funny thing about the repair manual I downloaded - it made no mention of the year? That's a first! Why?

Do the people in here ever get together like, in person? Wow - I'd really LOVE a chance to meet and talk to folks that ride these. I wasn't able to ride what I had for long, due to pain in my knee. I bought this as a remedy. I think I can ride it literally for days on end - it's that comfortable. I have an air hawk, somewhere. I just have to find it. I think it will cap the set.

I think people that chose these bikes will be intelligent. It seems to be the smart choice. I live in the center of America. I look forward to meeting 'yall!
 

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For normal riding I use 87 octane. However, if I am going to be riding with a couple of friends, when it's hot I use 91 octane. When using 87 octane, it's important to downshift when accelerating so as not to lug the engine, otherwise it pings.
 

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You want to use the fuel octane level (or higher) that the bike was tuned at.
If the bike was tuned to run on 93 octane then you're more likely to get knock and detonation using lower octane fuel.
If the fuel burns completely before the end of the end of the stroke then you will be running lean at the end of the stroke and will have much higher cylinder temperatures.
Having some fuel left over at the end of the stroke may not be environmentally friendly, but its certainly much better for the engine mechanically. Having a bit of fuel left at the end of the stroke helps keeps cylinder temps in check.
It may seems like a waist of money to use higher octane fuel in the short term, but in the long run it's likely to pay off in spades.
Only way to really know what's-what is to map your AFR at every RPM and throttle position and insure you're not running lean.
Anything else is just guessing.

BCS
LGB/FJB
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You want to use the fuel octane level (or higher) that the bike was tuned at.
If the bike was tuned to run on 93 octane then you're more likely to get knock and detonation using lower octane fuel.
If the fuel burns completely before the end of the end of the stroke then you will be running lean at the end of the stroke and will have much higher cylinder temperatures.
Having some fuel left over at the end of the stroke may not be environmentally friendly, but its certainly much better for the engine mechanically. Having a bit of fuel left at the end of the stroke helps keeps cylinder temps in check.
It may seems like a waist of money to use higher octane fuel in the short term, but in the long run it's likely to pay off in spades.
Only way to really know what's-what is to map your AFR at every RPM and throttle position and insure you're not running lean.
Anything else is just guessing.

BCS
LGB/FJB
All this is going to drag me into the fuel injection, before I learn the more basic things.

One question: does it have oxygen sensors? If so, the EFI will not allow it to have 'extra fuel left over' at the end of the stroke.
 

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US and Canadian models don't have oxygen sensors.

My M will run on 89 just fine, but I live in a lot of mountains and if you lug it at all it will ping. I just use 93 in it and don't worry about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
US and Canadian models don't have oxygen sensors.

My M will run on 89 just fine, but I live in a lot of mountains and if you lug it at all it will ping. I just use 93 in it and don't worry about it.
Interesting...

I live in Indiana, where we wish we had mountains, beaches or anything else! We have plenty of red necks, though...

Dual-plug engines are not known to ping, in general. You have 2 flame fronts, instead of one. Some dual-plug motors stagger the firing of the plugs. So many questions...

I'm going to remove the air cleaner and wash it out. I just use a garden hose - lol. There may be mice nests in there. No, seriously. About all my my bike has ever done is sit. I will wait until I can find out if Bosch makes a thin-wire, double iridium plug for this monster. Those plugs are magic! It seems impossible to find an application chart, online.

I NEVER let a motor lug. If I feel it vibrating, I downshift. I seldom get on the throttle in low. I suppose I run my bikes easy, compared to some people. If I wanted a hot rod, I sure would not have chosen the 109! I want a comfortable bike I can ride all day, without hurting my knee. Power is not really a consideration.

Yesterday, coming out of a small town called Brazil, I opened the throttle about 1/3 of the way in second gear. In two seconds I was at 60. I was amazed! The word impressed doesn't do it...

Most people assume the cause of ping is what we have been talking about. And it is, sometimes. But deposits on the piston tops cause it too. Do you ever ride in the rain? Humid air will clean the combustion chambers quickly. Riding on short trips, where the motor does not get up to operating temp, will cause deposits. What they call 'winter gas' is an absolute horror!

Would you do me a favor? Buy a bottle of gumout regain high-mileage injector cleaner ($6, at walmart) and pour about 1/4 of it into a full tank of gas? Then tell me what happens?

This machine REALY likes fuel! I'm scottish, by origin, and I'm so cheap I squeak, when I walk! I'm also 1/4 cherokee... lol. Did you ever take your mileage? I'm not sure I want the answer.
 

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I routinely use Seafoam in it to help clean any carbon. About every other tank I put a good slug in it. And yup I ride in the rain, not on purpose, occasionally. I know the water treatment too, I had an uncle with a 63 Pontiac 421 SD with 3 deuces on it when I was a kid, and he would pour a coke bottle of water through the carbs every once in a while to clean it out. It would sputter and blow carbon everywhere but it was a strong engine. I had an old Chevy Monza with a 350 LT1 in it that ran over 11-1 compression, and I had a vacuum switched water injection system on it to help with detonation.

You'll find that ridden normally, they get between 30 and 35 mpg. Of course you can make it do a lot worse than that without a lot of effort. :)

And what do you mean "used to wrench" on cars? Once a mechanic, always a mechanic. I'm 68 and I still don't trust garages. :)

The dual plugs on this fire at different times, and not always both of them. I don't recall the exact sequence, but at some rpm ranges it fires just one, and at other times it fires one and then the other/ And they do make Iridium plugs for the engine but I don't know about the dual electrode. On the M some folks like them and some don't, I run one heat range colder but not iridium.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I routinely use Seafoam in it to help clean any carbon. About every other tank I put a good slug in it. And yup I ride in the rain, not on purpose, occasionally. I know the water treatment too, I had an uncle with a 63 Pontiac 421 SD with 3 deuces on it when I was a kid, and he would pour a coke bottle of water through the carbs every once in a while to clean it out. It would sputter and blow carbon everywhere but it was a strong engine. I had an old Chevy Monza with a 350 LT1 in it that ran over 11-1 compression, and I had a vacuum switched water injection system on it to help with detonation.

You'll find that ridden normally, they get between 30 and 35 mpg. Of course you can make it do a lot worse than that without a lot of effort. :)

And what do you mean "used to wrench" on cars? Once a mechanic, always a mechanic. I'm 68 and I still don't trust garages. :)

The dual plugs on this fire at different times, and not always both of them. I don't recall the exact sequence, but at some rpm ranges it fires just one, and at other times it fires one and then the other/ And they do make Iridium plugs for the engine but I don't know about the dual electrode. On the M some folks like them and some don't, I run one heat range colder but not iridium.
The depth of your knowledge on this bike is truly amazing. I thank you for your replies, They just became invaluable!

I am a mechanic. NOT A TECHNICIAN, a mechanic. Meaning I try to understand what I work on, as opposed to following procedures in a book. I'm old-school, all the way :)

I guess I need to apologize for telling you things you already know - lol. You're just text on a screen, here. Now I appreciate. And I am beginning to appreciate the tech behind this monster bike, too. I'm ALWAYS up for learning and I say, KEEP IT COMING!

Here, this new bike is greased perfection. As I said before, I seldom 'get on' any bike. I pick my times, and places .) I always listen to my motors. And the sounds this bikes makes - wow. She's happy to be alive. And she sings!

I'd like too get a little more from the brakes? They work but it takes some pressure, sometimes. I don't like ABS. I just don't trust it. Once the 'fly by wire' throttle on a toyota avalon almost got me killed! A little gravel killed the motor as I turned out into heavy traffic, resulting in almost getting hit by a semi. I sold that car right after that.

Do you use sintered (i can't even spell it) pads? Or did you just get used to it?
 

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The depth of your knowledge on this bike is truly amazing. I thank you for your replies, They just became invaluable!

I am a mechanic. NOT A TECHNICIAN, a mechanic. Meaning I try to understand what I work on, as opposed to following procedures in a book. I'm old-school, all the way :)

I guess I need to apologize for telling you things you already know - lol. You're just text on a screen, here. Now I appreciate. And I am beginning to appreciate the tech behind this monster bike, too. I'm ALWAYS up for learning and I say, KEEP IT COMING!

Here, this new bike is greased perfection. As I said before, I seldom 'get on' any bike. I pick my times, and places .) I always listen to my motors. And the sounds this bikes makes - wow. She's happy to be alive. And she sings!

I'd like too get a little more from the brakes? They work but it takes some pressure, sometimes. I don't like ABS. I just don't trust it. Once the 'fly by wire' throttle on a toyota avalon almost got me killed! A little gravel killed the motor as I turned out into heavy traffic, resulting in almost getting hit by a semi. I sold that car right after that.

Do you use sintered (i can't even spell it) pads? Or did you just get used to it?
I run sintered Galfer pads on all three of my bikes , they have less metal in them than EBC and aren't as hard on your rotors. If you've got OEM pads now , you'll notice the difference. One of my bikes I switched the front master cylinder to one with a smaller diameter piston for more power.
 

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Same here as Joe, sintered Galfer pads. I didn't really have a preference of Galfer over EBC, but when I bought Galfer braided stainless lines I just got the pads along with them. They do make a little hissing noise from rubbing on the rotors but nothing bad about them. Breaking does improve over the stock pads, and I think there's a little less dust from them.

Thanks for the compliments too. All I've learned about this bike has been from the experts on here, and like you, I just like to learn about the things I have.
 

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I went Galfer pads and rotors front and rear. It costed a pretty penny but was so very worth it. It stops so nice and clean, and so very fast!

I like to use some seafoam in there myself, but i also use MMO at different times. Some people have yelled at me for the MMO, but, people also yell at me for the Seafoam! To each their own though right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I went Galfer pads and rotors front and rear. It costed a pretty penny but was so very worth it. It stops so nice and clean, and so very fast!

I like to use some seafoam in there myself, but i also use MMO at different times. Some people have yelled at me for the MMO, but, people also yell at me for the Seafoam! To each their own though right?
IMHO, the MMO won't work. It will start leaving deposits on the piston tops the moment it is used. Taking it off, later, with seafoam (or whatever) will end the pinging but it will still ping, most of the time. So like, why bother?

The bottom (oil) ring on the pistons is designed to leave plenty of lubrication for the top end. If it didn't, the motor would lock up! MMO cleans as it lubes. Using it all the time just might not be a good thing. I'd be interested to see the pistons from a motor that had MMO used in it frequently... It just might do damage, albeit slowly.

In the 60s there was this guy called Ed (big daddy) Roth. He is credited with originating a character called Stroker McGurk in his 'artwork,' which you might enjoy. You can find it here: Ed “Big Daddy” Roth’s Monster Car Illustrations

Wisdom is to be found, even in lunacy. Stroker McGurk is credited with originating two 'sayings:' There aint no substitute, for cubic inches and If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Motor vehicle Font Art Poster Illustration
 
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