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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, let me say that I am sure these numbers will start a little controversey but everyone needs to understand that these dyno numbers are specific to the machine that it was run on. As are all dyno runs. So sometimes it gets a little hard to compare dyno numbers when you factor in all of the variables.

I took my bike to Blaise Cycle in Miami today. One thing that I like that they do is that they let the bike cool down and the dyno room is air conditioned. That helps bring the humidity level down so that the engine works well.

The purpose of these dyno runs were to analyze my new Cobra Speedster pipes with just over a foot cut off from the rear. We also tested with no baffles and with the new baffle that quiets them down so I can ride the bike in my neighborhood.

P.S. I am not running any fuel management system at the current time.

So here is what we got:

NO BAFFLES
118.82 HP
111.11 Torque

NEW BAFFLES
112.25 HP
109.00 Torque

I will post the charts here tonight as they got wet riding in the rain on the way home.

So take these numbers for what they are. Dyno numbers on my bike with dyno runs done today at Blais cycle. Anything else will vary.

For anybody that wants to go to Blais here is his info:

Blais Cycle
1622 N.E. 205th Terrace
Miami, FL 33179
305-654-8114

He is closing for a 2 week vacation next week.

Just off of I-95 in Miami at Ives Dairy Road. Talk to Kevin. Tell him that I told you to call.

We may have a few little tricks to do after we get back from Sturgis.

 

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WOW, Even for that machine under those conditions, 9hp lost from crank to wheel=great for me.


Thanks a ton hal. :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Just realized that the baffle does give it more torque up to about 4,000 RPM. After that the no baffle is better.

HP is the same up to about 4,000 RPM and then the no baffle takes over.
 

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Thanx Hal,
I like the hard info like dyno runs and 1/4 mile times.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
J R said:
Hal i had the same thing but wait till ya put the JSD on and re do it and look at it up to 4 grand then  :D no baffles :D  ;) :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:
Are you trying to get me shot by one of the neighbors? They hate me already as my Dad (who lives with us) got us in trouble for feeding the pigeons and ducks in the lake.

LOL.
 

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Great numbers.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Blur said:
Hal,

  As a point of reference did you have numbers from your stock pipes?

Thanks,
Blur, MN
Only have the numbers done on our other bike that were done at another shop in Tennessee. Stock HP was around 110HP.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
JR,

I don't want to copy your message here for fear of making this too long.  I agree with you totally and the reason I wanted to dyno with and without baffles was to try and start to get some data that can show where the power goes when you make certain types of mods.  Future guys doing mods can then use the data to build on and start to do some even crazier stuff with their own M109 without having to start from the beginning like we all have done on this site.
 

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Would not the trial and error testing on a dyno be considered research? On a practical level with a consistent set of variables and only one item at a time changed then the results measured, I would think that is viable information. Also could be used as a base line for results for every 109 that is set up the same. I know there will be differences but common sense dictates some assumptions, because its not practical to think every owner will or could dyno their bike. Very interesting post btw JR I was trying to figure out where in that process my arms ache when I twist the throttle :)

Blur, MN
 

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The REALLY interesting thing to look at will be the dyno results that you get, compared to the quarter-mile results that FATGUY RACING puts up (he did some stock runs initially, and is continuing to run his bike at the strip as he adds on the various mods.)

This will be something like "THEORY" vs. "Real World" figures, since the dyno eliminates things like ram-air effects, etc. Of course, on the track you have all the variables related to the driver, etc. -- but with the same rider each time, this should even-out, to some extent.

It is not JUST a question of peak HP and/or torque -- but also WHERE these max-out on the rpm curve, and at what rpm you shift to the next gear that determine elapsed times.


Should make for some interesting "laboratory work".
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just can't make my scanner work. This is a photo. Will try to do it again later when the scanner is willing to co-operate.
 

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very cool Hal. I only wonder why the Dyno guy had the CF on STD at the upper right hand of graph? All seasoned dyno jet dyno operators will tell you that should be set on SAE but they did get the smoothing right with it set on 5. the only other fly in ointment I can see is they should have given you and AF map too to show the air/fuel curve matched to the hp/tq curve. then you can see where it needs to be bumped leaner or richer. And I agree with JR the pipe thing can vary between pipe design even pipe manufacturers and different bikes. I like how a good designer will do the dyno thing with their product. Look at www.bigcitythunder.com some time. These guys make the thunder monster baffles and did a lot of research to get there. Typically 2-2 drag style pipes do good at idle/off idle and top end but suffer badly at midrange. the typical v-twin and 2-2 pipe has a significant hole in the midrange and the AF chart shows it to be rich, something JR hit on about the wave action from the pipe messing with the fuel charge and what some refer to as double carburation. the thunder monster baffle is just a short maybe 6" long pipe that narrows in the center part but also has a washer welded upright at one end so that it is in the exhaust stream. not really much of a baffle but more of a torque cone and it corrects a lot of the open pipe problem without killing the sound much. Another Harley Dyno tuner does the same with torque cones where the correction is made without even messing with the jetting. Now on carb'd bikes tuning around the midrange hole cause by open drags is pretty much impossible, I have yet to see if it can be fixed on an injected bike which has more fuel correction features. Good work all.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
First off, these guys are top notch and very qualified.

As far as the STD or SAE I was given the option and elected to go for STD as it typically reads slightly higher. I have a bunch of charts including the one you asked about. They got wet riding home and I am not worried about AF at this point until the Power Commander becomes available.

The purpose of this run was to show the differences between the baffled and non baffled version of these pipes.

We are going to do a few more things to this bike in August after we return from Sturgis. At this point everything is to spot trends. And to let me know that those pipes are pretty good and don't lose HP.

And these pipes will not be on the bike once we make the other mods so I wasn't looking to get too crazy with info that is ultimately not worth much.

We could get into the discussion on ambient temperature, dry bulb, wet bulb, humidity, dew point, altitude and a bunch of other things but that it why I qualified my original post.

All I can say is that seat of the pants dyno thought that the non-baffles version felt better and the dyno confirmed it.
 

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no doubt they are. sounds like you got it all. I just know of a few bad apples out there who BS the dyno charts just to get your money, not saying they are all like that. I spent some time installing a couple dyno's and working with some super tuners. One guy was a dealership manager at a large Yam/Kaw/Suz dealership and showed me a lot about dyno's and tuning plus he dyno'd mine free when ever I wanted. I just wanted to say thanks for your hard work and we appreciate all the info. :bigthumbsup:
 

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Suggest that you obtain your "run files" from the dyno operator, you can then download a free dynojet program to view your runs on your computer.. They used STD correction factor instead of the industry standard "SAE", the result.... your hp will appear to be higher.

You should also have the a/f ratio displayed on the chart so you can see what is really going on. Just swapping baffles and not doing much as far as tuning, shows you a limited amount.

You should also remember that a dyno is really only good for same day run cumparisions...just a tool.

Here is a quick example: the max hp would go from 182.90 to 186.26 just be selecting another correction factor :eek:

 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
J R said:
Off topic,Hal hows the rear tire feel??? Also any way you might find it in your heart to weigh the stocker and the Metz ya put on there :redfaced: Pretty please.I dont have all these tires laying here like you :( I am interested in weight of the different tires as well as durometer punches if ya got a min one day and ya dont mind.No biggie tho ;) :bigthumbsup: Im close to needing a tire but I want the lightest and stickiest 8)
I haven't put the tire on yet. I will do it in about 2 weeks. Want to use up a few more miles. But I will weigh them for you.
 
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