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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had switched over to Mobile 1 20W50 Vtwin synthetic at 600 miles...about a month or so after switching, I started getting the clutch shudder, maybe once a week. It progressed over the next 1,500 miles to become a daily occurrence...it did not make any difference whether it was warmed up, cold, held clutch in at red light,etc...you just knew it was going to happen just did not know when. As I was letting out the clutch the back end would literally bounce up and down until the plates would let go....scary as hell, especially if making a turn from stop...

One of the guys I occasionally ride with had mentioned to maybe try going back to regular Suzuki oil to see if it still acts up. I followed his advice and have a week and several hundred miles without any shudder at all...for some reason my bike '08, does not like the synthetic....I just wanted to share this with anyone in the same position as myself. I was sooo pissed I was ready to trade it in....now it feels like the day I brought it home...there has to be a scientific reason for this, curious to see if anyone has an answer.
 

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I'm no expert on this subject but I was always told not to put full synthetic in a bike with low miles. I only switched to Mobile 1 on my old M50 cruiser after it had 10,000 miles on it and it ran terrific on Mobile 1.

I've seen a few posts like this about the M109R. I personally can't explain it. I have a 2007 with only 8,000 miles on it and have not experienced this "clutch shudder" yet. I just recently did an oil change and for the first time went with a semi-synthetic oil instead of regular oil and it's running great. Shifts slightly smoother and seems to be running a little easier.

Go with what works for YOUR BIKE. Your gonna get a bunch of posts about how synthetic is the only way to go. But if it doesn't work with your bike it pointless.
 

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From an experience with many 109's that I have had my hands on, type of oil really has nothing to do with it---however lack of oil does. Mine is an 08 and I have used Mobil1 auto oil in it from 600 miles. I got the shudder at around 8500-9000 miles-- now have 10500. Now, there have been all types oils used with those that have the problem. Not sure the currect Suzuki fix will solve it--at best temporary. Yours will come back, just a matter of time. Please post when it does so others will understand more what they are dealing with.
 

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I don't know why some bikes do this but I changed mine to Mobil racing 4T at 2300 miles.

I've never had any shudder at all but it does shift smoother on synthetic.
 
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I think it has something to do with the additive package they put into all oils, synthetic and petropeum. Synthetic is naturally more slippery and requires less of certain friction modifiers than petroleum oil. These friction modifiers have a lot to do with clutch performance, keeping them from being grabby. That is what is happening with the clutch the fiber plates are not sliding into engadgement, they are grbbing when they come in contact with the metal plates. I currently have Amsoil 10W40 synthetic in my 9 and it started to have occational shuddler. I put some (just a couple of oz's) limmited slip differencial additive (a friction modifier) in it a month ago and have not had any shudder since. (450 mi) It is used to stop chatter in turns when the differential clutches do what our bike clutch is doing, grabbing. I think it is a cure. I also think the petroleum oil is changed earlier and the friction modifiers don't have a chance to wear out, as they have more to begin with. Higher performance weight oil ( the second # in 10W40) works better than say a 10w30. It would be interesting to see if anyone using a 20W50 is having clutch shudder.
 

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I think it has something to do with the additive package they put into all oils, synthetic and petropeum. Synthetic is naturally more slippery and requires less of certain friction modifiers than petroleum oil. These friction modifiers have a lot to do with clutch performance, keeping them from being grabby. That is what is happening with the clutch the fiber plates are not sliding into engadgement, they are grbbing when they come in contact with the metal plates. I currently have Amsoil 10W40 synthetic in my 9 and it started to have occational shuddler. I put some (just a couple of oz's) limmited slip differencial additive (a friction modifier) in it a month ago and have not had any shudder since. (450 mi) It is used to stop chatter in turns when the differential clutches do what our bike clutch is doing, grabbing. I think it is a cure. I also think the petroleum oil is changed earlier and the friction modifiers don't have a chance to wear out, as they have more to begin with. Higher performance weight oil ( the second # in 10W40) works better than say a 10w30. It would be interesting to see if anyone using a 20W50 is having clutch shudder.
I have been waiting on a report to see if your friction modifier helped. I have been using Mobil 1 20W50 and having the same problem. I used to have the shudder just once in a while now it is coming more oftenn. I am thinking of going back to Suzuki oil but also thinking of trying the friction modifier as well.
 

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motul oil

I use Motul 5100 semi synthetic 10-40 oil in all my bikes, with the 109 no clutch problems
 

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The additive packages in synthetics and mineral based lubricants are virtually identical, so I wouldn't be too cocerned in that area. Viscosity is the first factor to decide when choosing a lubricant. When looking at the 9, suzuki is recommending a 10w-40 at average temps. Temps as in ambient or outside temps. Unless your riding in an area where the temps are consistently 95 and above them a 20w-50 is probaly a little to heavy for the 9. I know people are going to jump on that statement, but I'm only trying to offer some advice. The viscosity grades on motor oils are a little misleading. A 20W-50 for instance means that the oil is an SAE Grade 50 at operating temperature. The W stands for winter, and the 20 denotes that the engine cranks at 0 degrees F as if it has a Sae 20 in the engine. These multi vis oils are produced by using viscosity modifiers (polymers) to control viscosity changes with temperature changes. Long story short, If you you are using a 20W50 in your 9, then you are running a 50wt oil when your riding. In the case of the engine that isn't that big of a deal. But in the case of the transmissions and clutches, it's a substantual change. I would try to stick with a good quality 10w-40.
As for the friction modifier additive, be very careful. Limited slip additives are known as oiliness additives in the lube industry. They are made from primarily animal fats and their derivatives. While they work well in differentials they will have some issues in engines. Engine temps will cook the oiliness additives and other additives that they adhere to. Think Crisco in a hot pan for an extended amount of time. 2 ounces of additive to a 9's crankcase is at a 4 to 5% content level. If the additive seems to be helping with the clutch issues I would at leaset be using periodic oil analysis to monitor my engine oil. Good luck and I hope Suzuki comes up up with a real fix for the shutter issues. 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Mobile 1 synthetic and the Suzuki oil were both 20W50...I only started getting the shudder when I went with the Mobile 1...it got more frequent as time went by. I changed back to Suzuki oil and have not had any issues. I just wanted to share this for those that were as frustrated as me. When I called the dealer, the first thing that they asked was what oil are you using....I said Mobile 1 Syn, and they said I could not use this with this bike...did not get a detailed explanation, they just said to try using regular oil...
 

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Come to think of it, I did not experience a shudder issue until I switched to Mobile 1 Synthetic. I bought my bike used with 3200 miles on it. I changed to the synthetic at 4500. Experienced my first shudder around 500 miles after. It scared the chit out of me. I've experienced it several times since. Could it be something as simple as the oil? :dontknow:
 
G

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The additive packages in synthetics and mineral based lubricants are virtually identical, so I wouldn't be too cocerned in that area. Viscosity is the first factor to decide when choosing a lubricant. When looking at the 9, suzuki is recommending a 10w-40 at average temps. Temps as in ambient or outside temps. Unless your riding in an area where the temps are consistently 95 and above them a 20w-50 is probaly a little to heavy for the 9. I know people are going to jump on that statement, but I'm only trying to offer some advice. The viscosity grades on motor oils are a little misleading. A 20W-50 for instance means that the oil is an SAE Grade 50 at operating temperature. The W stands for winter, and the 20 denotes that the engine cranks at 0 degrees F as if it has a Sae 20 in the engine. These multi vis oils are produced by using viscosity modifiers (polymers) to control viscosity changes with temperature changes. Long story short, If you you are using a 20W50 in your 9, then you are running a 50wt oil when your riding. In the case of the engine that isn't that big of a deal. But in the case of the transmissions and clutches, it's a substantual change. I would try to stick with a good quality 10w-40.
As for the friction modifier additive, be very careful. Limited slip additives are known as oiliness additives in the lube industry. They are made from primarily animal fats and their derivatives. While they work well in differentials they will have some issues in engines. Engine temps will cook the oiliness additives and other additives that they adhere to. Think Crisco in a hot pan for an extended amount of time. 2 ounces of additive to a 9's crankcase is at a 4 to 5% content level. If the additive seems to be helping with the clutch issues I would at leaset be using periodic oil analysis to monitor my engine oil. Good luck and I hope Suzuki comes up up with a real fix for the shutter issues. 8)
I used Amsoils Synthetic additive.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ada.aspx
 

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Could it be something as simple as the oil? :dontknow:
In a word, no. At least I don't think so. If you've followed the board long enough, the shudder has run the gammet of folks using different oil types.

I just got mine out of the shop today. I had the dealer do it because Zuk covered parts AND labor. They paid for the back plate and wave washer but I had them replace the rest of the plates on my dime while they were in there.

I don't think this is a fix, but I was impressed that they covered the work with my bike out of warranty. Didn't expect that at all. So I'll take however many miles I can get now...

I am going to go with JUtah's recommendation...keep it as full as I can w/o having the "oil out the left intake" issue. I also think this is a dry plate issue. I'm gonna stick to conventional oil w/ motorkote every fourth change or so. I really think the dealer underfilled mine at the 600 mile service (only service they did) to be sure they avoided the overfill issue. I'm wondering if that's when I burnt my plates, though no telling. I'm not super abusive but I do ride hard on occasion.
 

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I have used mobil 1 since first oil change, about 400 if I remember, got over 15,000, never have any clutch shudder, from the old drag race day clutch shudder was caused by your clutch plate getting burned or scorred from slippage.
Without casting blame, is this maybe a rider problem? Could it be that if your run the 9 hard and race it the clutch will not hold up?
I have done one burnout, it was on the garage floor and only for about 2 seconds, I wanted to check the tire patch print on the ground.
So how do those who have had this problem ride? Just courious.
 

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i'VE GOT A LITTLE OVER 11,000 ON MINE AND BEEN USING SYN. FOR ABOUT 9,000MI AND SO FAR NO PROBLEM. THE PAST 2 OIL CHANGES HAVE BEEN MOBILE 1 20W50, PREVIOUSLY I'VE TRIED HAVOLINE 10W40. WITH BOTH OILS I'VE SEEN AN IMPROVEMENT IN SHIFTING AND SLIGHTLY SMOOTHER IDLING BUT NOT A MAJOR CHANGE. I REALLY WONDER IF THE OIL REALLY MAKES THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Come to think of it, I did not experience a shudder issue until I switched to Mobile 1 Synthetic. I bought my bike used with 3200 miles on it. I changed to the synthetic at 4500. Experienced my first shudder around 500 miles after. It scared the chit out of me. I've experienced it several times since. Could it be something as simple as the oil? :dontknow:
What year is your bike...trying to see if this is a year specific thing with the syn oil?
 

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Mine is a 2007 with over 19,000 miles on it and I've had synthetic in it since 600 miles. No shudder. I run Amsoil 10w-40 in it in the fall-winter-spring months and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 in the summer months. I probably do more miles on the 20w-50.
 

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My Fix

I have a 2008 LE with 7000 kms and it started to shutter last week i didn't know what it was, i loaded up the clutch with the front brake to work what ever scum was on the plates off, so far no shutter i will let you know if i was full of it. YA I KNOW IT IS HARD ON THE PLATES, but there is no way an oil brand would be the problem otherwise there would be an obvious pattern on this board.
 

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I use to use Amsoil 10-40 and never had a clutch shudder. I only quit using it cause it started burning oil. After I changed back to dino oil, the oil consumption stopped.

Oh and by the way, I have had the shudder, buy only with dino oil.

I don't believe the shudder has anything to do with the type of oil. This has been discussed here more time than is necessary and the range of oil types is across the board. I has to do with a POS clutch. I CAN make mine do it on command and I can make it never do it by the way I operate the clutch.

Any way, that is just my $.02
 

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Just hanged to Amsoil 10-40 and no shudder since. hasnt been that long but hope it last. One thing for sure is that 2nd gear shift is much better.
 
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