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My son is trying to join the airforce. His score was 49 out of the recomended min of 50. When my son made a 49 he said, ok I will take the test again. At this point the recruiter said wait, I think I can get you in with a 49 and a day or so later called him back and said he's in. Get ready to go to afees. He went to afees and passed his physical and swore in. I remebered when I swore in and was so happy for him.

About a month ago the recruiter said ( after a couple of months waiting for his slot to come open) there is a new rule that says he will be discharged because of the low score and will have to start all over, even though he has already been through afees and passed his physical and been accepted and sworn in at afees.

For the past month the recruiter had been trying to get him to become an MP. The recruiter asked him if he would take a slot as an mp. My son said he would think about it and get back to him. My son called him back a couple of days later and said thats not what he wants to do in the military. By the way it is not one of the choices he qualified/picked as job choices and never wanted as a job choice. He was waiting for something in nuclear, I dont remember the titles.

Today the recruiter called him and asked him to go to his office to sign some paperwork saying he wishes to be dischared from the delayed entry program. Do this because if he doesn't he will be discharged from the AF at the end of the month, he had already been told he could try again for a better score and another chance even though he will have to start all over.

When he got to his office the recruiter simply placed a paper in front of him and said sign her and date here. Then he went on to his computer , not explaining anything on the document as he normally would and seems not to pay attention waitng for him to sign. My son scimmed it over and guess what, at the bottom it says he is basicly discharging himself and he will never be able to join the AF. When he asked the recruiter why the discharge he said it was because the refused a slot, a slot he did not ask for and was never one of his chioces he was waiting for. My son told him it was never one of his choices, the when the recruiter had put him in for it. This must have happened when my son told him he would think about it and to give him a couple of days to think about it.


My son was already suspisions before he went, this recruiter is not acting right, hes hiding something and does not have his best intrest at heart and told me this before he walked in. We decided he would not sign anything and only ask questions.

I gets worse. My son asked to see a higher ranked superior and the recruiter tryied scareing him away from persuing that route saying words like " we cant put you in jail but ... bad mark on your record ... don't want to involve anyone else ..."

What is going on?
Is he in the military now or not? He went through afees and swore into the delayed program and was waiting for a slot to open.

Trying to figure this out. We want to speak to someone else that is not in the same office. My son has lost all confidence in this senior airman ( I think, e-4 or e-5 ) and wants to get some real advice from someone that he feels isn't lying to him. The recruiter has contradicted himself too many times and is acking more like a shady car salesman that a member of our military forces.

Instead of helping him get into the AF he is manuvering him into a position where he will mever get in. What gives?

Sorry for all the rant but I'm trying to give you an acuarate picture of what has happened and would like opinions as what might be our next step.
 

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This guy (the recuiter) is the basic story of crap recuiters. He's a Senior Airman (SrA) E-4 I'm going to say he's been in between 4-8 years. They have quotes that they need to fill each month. If not they get in trouble. Beings that your son did not take the offered. The recruiter was not goign to make his quote. trust me, I have talked to a few Security Forces (SF) and Security Police (SP) to know that I would not allow my kids to join that career field. (no offense to all military police reading this) With your son going into the delayed enlistment program all he really was doing was saving a slot for his Basic Military Training. He's not Air Force until he raises his right hand and swears in.
You and your son have the right to talk to his supervisor. What your son should do is study for a highter ASVAB score. If he is looking at nuclear. Have him talk to the Navy. The "NUKES" have a kick A$$ bonus program.
You could talk to NavyDave about the program. He works with them "NUKES" (prior recuiter) and you could also get in touch with Revlo3. He's an Army recuiter.
 

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In 78 I took the ASVAB and scored a 96. I was told "I could be anything I want' just sign here." Then I took the physical and failed due to bad hearing, something I was not aware I had until that time. They 4Fed me and sent me home.

I got more calls from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, in the next couple of months than I have gotten the rest of my life. Stuff like if "I lowered my standards of what I was willing to accept, I could be in without a problem."

But I was not willing to lower my standards, and so let it drop. Still don't know if it was a good decision, probably not.

If I was your son, I'd just move on to something else. I really doubt they have his best interests at heart. Just gotta meet that quota!???
 

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:cus:My heart is sadden over your sons ordeal!!! I am a Retired Army NCO and was basically done the same way back in 1982!!! The econemy was bad and everyone was trying to join the Military. It really sounds like the (recuiter) was trying to acheive a quota but sometimes job placement in the military is wishy-washy. By your son not scoring the min of 50 the recuitor was trying to get him in on a waiver. This is sometimes harder then it should be because the standards change daily. My son had went to MEPS and signed in and the next day he was told that he was disqualified under the wavior program. Tell him dont let this discourge him and make him lose interest in the Military because of changes. As we all know the civilian jobs do the same thing, you get hired for one job and then when you start working they have you doing something totally different than what you applied for. Tell him to look at the other services or just wait 90 days and retest until he can make a better score. Good luck and (GO ARMY)!!!!
 

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I don't know if it has changed since i retired last year after 22 years Army.

Really sounds like you son is getting the run around sorry to hear that.
 

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Only my opnion

When I enlisted in 1976 I scored very high on the ASVAB, almost maxing it out and was offered any job I wanted but I choose to be Infantry. I guess the rapelling out of choppers, jumping out of airplanes, weapons training and killing bad guys had sort of an appeal to an 18 year old. My recuiter tried to talk me out of it telling me that because of my high score I could do ANYTHING I want to and that an Infantry MOS was an ok field to get into but that it wasn't really a transferrable or sought after line of work in the civilian sector upon discharge. I did it anyway and retired in 1996.

Now I agree with the other folks. Recuiters do have a quota to fill and if they fail to do so it can affect their NCOER (Non Commissioned Officers Evaluation Report) and have a detramental effect of their career. Sounds to me like yes he was trying to fill his monthly quota.

I agree with Blakester 71 when he said:
You and your son have the right to talk to his supervisor. What your son should do is study for a highter ASVAB score. If he is looking at nuclear. Have him talk to the Navy. The "NUKES" have a kick A$$ bonus program.
You could talk to NavyDave about the program. He works with them "NUKES" (prior recuiter) and you could also get in touch with Revlo3. He's an Army recuiter.

Good luck Spillman and good luck to your son I hope that he can get in. The military is a good job with good benefits (Medical, dental, vision), three hots and a cot, travel and really see the world. Most folks don't get a chance to do that. They're born, live, work and sometimes die in their hometown. The greatest benefit he'll recieve from a miliatry career is GREAT job security. You know as well as I do that there isn't much job security out here today. I hear of folks losing their jobs all the time, If he can get in the military and stay 20 years it'll be the best 1st career decision he could've made. I retired from the military in 1996 at 38 and recently from another job at 52. BEST OF LUCK to you and your son. He sounds like he's a really level headed and responsible young man.

My son is trying to join the airforce. His score was 49 out of the recomended min of 50. When my son made a 49 he said, ok I will take the test again. At this point the recruiter said wait, I think I can get you in with a 49 and a day or so later called him back and said he's in. Get ready to go to afees. He went to afees and passed his physical and swore in. I remebered when I swore in and was so happy for him.

About a month ago the recruiter said ( after a couple of months waiting for his slot to come open) there is a new rule that says he will be discharged because of the low score and will have to start all over, even though he has already been through afees and passed his physical and been accepted and sworn in at afees.

For the past month the recruiter had been trying to get him to become an MP. The recruiter asked him if he would take a slot as an mp. My son said he would think about it and get back to him. My son called him back a couple of days later and said thats not what he wants to do in the military. By the way it is not one of the choices he qualified/picked as job choices and never wanted as a job choice. He was waiting for something in nuclear, I dont remember the titles.

Today the recruiter called him and asked him to go to his office to sign some paperwork saying he wishes to be dischared from the delayed entry program. Do this because if he doesn't he will be discharged from the AF at the end of the month, he had already been told he could try again for a better score and another chance even though he will have to start all over.

When he got to his office the recruiter simply placed a paper in front of him and said sign her and date here. Then he went on to his computer , not explaining anything on the document as he normally would and seems not to pay attention waitng for him to sign. My son scimmed it over and guess what, at the bottom it says he is basicly discharging himself and he will never be able to join the AF. When he asked the recruiter why the discharge he said it was because the refused a slot, a slot he did not ask for and was never one of his chioces he was waiting for. My son told him it was never one of his choices, the when the recruiter had put him in for it. This must have happened when my son told him he would think about it and to give him a couple of days to think about it.

My son was already suspisions before he went, this recruiter is not acting right, hes hiding something and does not have his best intrest at heart and told me this before he walked in. We decided he would not sign anything and only ask questions.

I gets worse. My son asked to see a higher ranked superior and the recruiter tryied scareing him away from persuing that route saying words like " we cant put you in jail but ... bad mark on your record ... don't want to involve anyone else ..."

What is going on?
Is he in the military now or not? He went through afees and swore into the delayed program and was waiting for a slot to open.

Trying to figure this out. We want to speak to someone else that is not in the same office. My son has lost all confidence in this senior airman ( I think, e-4 or e-5 ) and wants to get some real advice from someone that he feels isn't lying to him. The recruiter has contradicted himself too many times and is acking more like a shady car salesman that a member of our military forces.

Instead of helping him get into the AF he is manuvering him into a position where he will mever get in. What gives?

Sorry for all the rant but I'm trying to give you an acuarate picture of what has happened and would like opinions as what might be our next step.
 

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I hope he gets what he wants.

Sorry your son has had such a hard time of it with those guys.

Sounds like military recruiters are the same the world over. :edit:

In my experience, the moral of the story is "don't believe a word they say, and don't trust them as far as you can throw them. Read the fine print very, very carefully...or better still, get a lawyer to read it for you....and never, ever sign. For once you do, they own you in a way that no employer ever possibly could. I.M.O. Jail is the only place where greater control could be imposed upon you, than the military." Sure, the training is great, but it's way too specialised to purely military applications in my experience, with much of it not being transferable to civilian employment roles. I.M.O. the price paid is way, way too high.

Or maybe it is simply the case that I'm completely unsuited to military life, and taking orders from people I'd rather rip a new one.

Anyway...I hope your son achieves his own goals, and gets exactly what he himself wants....rather than ending up being a pawn for those guys.
 

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Opportunity

Your son needs to go with the biggest service, Army, more job skills, better advancement chances. I got the same Air Force runaround. In the army I found a critical shortage MOS (military occupational speciality), got a $5000.00 enlistment bonus ( only had to stay in that skill one year for the $$) and never looked back. Nice thing about the Army I have changed MOS skill sets over 9 times in my 30+ years. I know the rules and times have changed but there are still deals with Uncle Sam in either Army, or Marine Corps:bigthumbsup:
 

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I agree, BUT------

Only in my honest opnion, please try to steer you son AWAY FROM combat arms MOS's. Alot of those critical shortage MOS's are combat arms related ones. I was very fortunate to survive my 20 years. A good MOS is one where he won't have to worry about catching a bullet and is a skill the will net him a good paying job when he gets out of the military. The last thing you want is him coming home in a body bag. Only my opnion.

Bob Jordan
USA, Infantry
Retired

Your son needs to go with the biggest service, Army, more job skills, better advancement chances. I got the same Air Force runaround. In the army I found a critical shortage MOS (military occupational speciality), got a $5000.00 enlistment bonus ( only had to stay in that skill one year for the $$) and never looked back. Nice thing about the Army I have changed MOS skill sets over 9 times in my 30+ years. I know the rules and times have changed but there are still deals with Uncle Sam in either Army, or Marine Corps:bigthumbsup:
 

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I have never been a NUKE but I did do 27 years in the Navy (avaition) and I can tell you that if your son wants to go into nuclear power the only choice for him is the NAVY no one else does it. An ASVAP score of 49 isn't going to get him into nukes (sorry but it's true). He needs to retake his ASVAP and score really high to even be considered. Tell him to go here to find out what he needs to do. http://www.navy.com/navy/careers/nuclear-energy/nuclear-operations.html Bear in mind that there is no sure thing here as he has to past all pre-required courses and graduate in the top 1 or 2% of each pre-class to get into nuke power (they only take the very best into the program). The Navy is going to want at least six years enlistment from him just to cover the cost of all the schools he will attend if he quialfies for nuke power. As for the recruter he is dealing with you can find out who his senior is by contacting the AF recuting district HQ and IMHO you should talk to the head of the district, this guy is just trying to cover his ass and make his quota, he has already had his ass handed to him for signing someone who didn't get to boot camp, trust me recuting is a real hard job and IMHO one of the hardest ones to suceed at. I did everything in my power to stay away from recruting in my 27 years of service including extending on sea duty and am glad I did
 

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I have never been a NUKE but I did do 27 years in the Navy (avaition) and I can tell you that if your son wants to go into nuclear power the only choice for him is the NAVY no one else does it. An ASVAP score of 49 isn't going to get him into nukes (sorry but it's true). He needs to retake his ASVAP and score really high to even be considered. Tell him to go here to find out what he needs to do. http://www.navy.com/navy/careers/nuclear-energy/nuclear-operations.html Bear in mind that there is no sure thing here as he has to past all pre-required courses and graduate in the top 1 or 2% of each pre-class to get into nuke power (they only take the very best into the program). The Navy is going to want at least six years enlistment from him just to cover the cost of all the schools he will attend if he quialfies for nuke power. As for the recruter he is dealing with you can find out who his senior is by contacting the AF recuting district HQ and IMHO you should talk to the head of the district, this guy is just trying to cover his ass and make his quota, he has already had his ass handed to him for signing someone who didn't get to boot camp, trust me recuting is a real hard job and IMHO one of the hardest ones to suceed at. I did everything in my power to stay away from recruting in my 27 years of service including extending on sea duty and am glad I did
Not completely true---who man's the nuclear silo's---not the Navy---Air force. Just thought I would remind you. But yes, everything you said is true.

That recruiter is a piece. Have him go to a different recruiting station and talk with the one in charge above that station, more than likely the same person above that piece recruiter. That is one way to go around him without alerting him to the fact. One thing, do not let the new station be aware of the situation ans say the only way he will want to join is to talk with that person. They will set it up and then he can spring all the info of that situation. and explain why he had to go this route to get intouch with him.
 

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Did not have time to read the posts but do have a lying recruiter story: I have a good friend that was in the marines years ago who became friends with a guy who was told by a HS recruiter that they had a swim team. That was important to this kid who was on a swimteam in HS. Needless to say there was no pool or swimteam. ;) His advice to me when my son was being recruited, was get anything and everything in writing..... Good luck
 

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Nuclear power and nuclear weapons are 2 completely different things. If he wants to build bombs both services do it although it's mostly civilians. If he wants nuclear power generation (a field that pays big $$ on the outside) only the Navy does it. Every Carrier/Sub is a miniature nuclear power plant and the bonus's for those guys can approach 6 figures . Unfortunately a 49 on the ASVAB is way off.
 

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I am very disturbed about your sons situation. I personally served 13 years in the United States Marine Corps and I must say that I am proud of every service member. But as always it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. I will tell you to get in touch with the Officer in Charge of the Recruiter Station directly and speak to him. If not contact your congressman and inform him or her of the situation and I bet it will get fixed very quickly. But in the future tell your son never sign a blank piece of paper not matter what the situation. Good luck with him getting in the USAF. Tell him if it is his dream do not give up and dont let anyone keep him for accomplishing his goal.:bigthumbsup:
 

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I am currently active duty air force (E5 Staff Sergeant) I can tell you what's happening here with your recruiter. First off he's pretty inexperienced due to the fact that he's only a SrA and its obvious his people skills are lacking. Chances are he is not lying to your boy. They will get into very deep **** and will lose their job if they get caught doing so. It is true he needs to meet a quota and that's why he is trying to push your boy into the SF career field. SF is security forces or cops basically. DO NOT let him sign a contract for that job if that's not what he wants. I have yet to meet an AF cop who truely enjoys their job. This is also one of the lowest scoring asvab jobs and is why its a fallback for recruiters. If a kid can't qualify for what he wants they'll try to push them into SF so that they still get credit for getting him to join. I've seen it a lot. Your son is not in the military until he swears into meps and ships to basic training the very next day. The delayed enlistment program is pretty much a joke. The AF way of making your boy promise to join so that they can count on him filling a slot in basic training. He can bail at any time up until the day he leaves for basic training and there will be NO legal issues with it. They are guaranteed to make a big stink about it but it doesn't mean anything at the end of the day.

Here's your best bet. Get your boy to study and score higher on asvab. Then he can sign a contract for the job he wants and then leave for basic with that job in his contract. Tell him to blow off anything else the recruiter tries to tell him. Its pretty much sign for the job you want and go to basic. Or don't join at all. Tell him DO NOT join for a job he doesn't want and do boy join on an open general contract. That would mean he picks a job once he gets down to basic. This is a bad deal cause you get to pick from what's available only and if you don't like the choices they just stick you in one. And at that point its way too late.

If you have any other questions or want to call me and talk to me or want me to talk to your boy just shoot me a PM and ill send you my number.

Nate
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Guys,

We really appreciate all your input, advice, insite, caring responses.

Thanks guys

Ramon
 

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Basically everything Nate just said. My sister tried to join the Marines after I joined. Her recruiter was a total ass. He brought a "test" over to the house for her to do, along with some alcohol. She told me that while she was taking the test, he came over and started rubbing her shoulders and offering alocohol. She was scared and angry at the same time. I begged her to report it so I didn't have to come home and burn down a recruiter's station. Turns out, she's one of probably 10 or so women he'd done this to.

Some people are scumbags. Until you son swears in at MEPS and steps on the bus, he's not "in the military" yet. This is probably a good lesson for your son not to "settle" for something he doesn't want. Being in the military is tough enough without being stuck doing a job you don't even want. Good luck, and I hope everything works out for you and your son.

-Josh
 

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Sorry Folks

I do apologize for my fellow Airman here. He is obviously new and working through his OJT (on the job training). There are some good recruiters out there. They aren't all bad. You'll know a good one when you see them. They will take the extra step in explaining everything and if they can't answer one of your questions, they'll get someone who can. The Air Force is a great service and I'm having a blast doing my job. Like others have said before me, be sure he signs on for a job that he wants. Plus make sure that the nuclear program is what he wants to work with. What AFSC would he be working in? Does he know the duties involved? Is there another job that is more appealing to him? Know these answers before signing any papers. I suggest that he talk to some current active duty airman to get a better idea of what he wants.
 
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