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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello folks,

Having a very confusing issue installing Revo's smoke integrated tail light. Hoping someone here can assist. Some context first, so I can fully explain the situation:

A few months ago I embarked on the long and somewhat entertaining journey of customizing my 2017 boss. Eventually, I got to the rear end. Needed a trim, so I figured I'd go with the custom dynamics integrated amber/red/amber tail light/turn signal + Revo's integrated tail light. Two sources of running/braking/turn signal lights, for extra visibility.

So I took everything apart, hooked up the custom dynamics LED strip by itself, and everything worked fine. Then I tried installing Revo's integrated tail light (smoke lens looks great with the blue/black boss). As some of you may know, the light comes with a turn signal relay, and 5 wires sticking out of it. 3 wires go to the plug, so that part was easy. Plugged it into the OEM socket and that was that. Two other wires, blue and yellow, are for the left and right turn signals respectively. At first I left those unconnected, and the tail light operated just fine. Exactly like stock. Running lights fine, braking fine. Worked in tandem with the LED strip quite nicely.

However... and this is the issue that's got me confused... as soon as I hook up one of the turn signal wires, blue or yellow, to the corresponding pulsing 12v wire (i.e. T-splice it into the same wire that's driving the custom dynamics led turn signals just fine), the running/braking lights on that side of the integrated tail light no longer work. Turn signal works fine, blinks as expected when on, but whether the turn signals are on or off, the red lights for running or brake on that side of the light just won't come on anymore. With both turn signals hooked up, only the middle vertical strip of LEDs on the tail light works... LED strip is unaffected.

It still does this even after I hooked up the turn signal relay that comes with the tail light. Only thing I haven't tried yet is hooking up some resistors... but these are LEDs, just like the ones in the LED strip which work just fine.

Sorry about the wall of text guys, but I'm quite confused here. I thought I understood wiring... but I must be missing something. I can provide pics if requested, but I'm pretty sure I spliced into the correct wires (case in point: the led strip works fine)

Now... the tail light might be defective, but both running lights, brake lights, and turn signals work fine... just not at the same time... And I previously ordered a different integrated tail light, that had the same issue. I returned that one assuming it was faulty, ordered Revo's, which I like better anyway, but same problem...

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and followed up with a burnout in your honor!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I did see those videos. The only issue that those sorta highlight is that the Revo light might not work with other lights, but my issue persists even if i install the light by itself, without the led strip. As soon as a turn signal wire is hooked up, the red lights on that side stop working, run or brake, regardless of whether the turn signals are on or off.
 

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I did see those videos. The only issue that those sorta highlight is that the Revo light might not work with other lights, but my issue persists even if i install the light by itself, without the led strip. As soon as a turn signal wire is hooked up, the red lights on that side stop working, run or brake, regardless of whether the turn signals are on or off.
That's my 9 above. I went back to the stock brake light as the LED was difficult to see on sunny days. It was not a Revo unit.
Can you post a picture of the wiring you have going on right now and also you do have the correct LED flasher unit installed, not the stock one?
That might help others help you. I'm no wire expert. When I did mine we went from stock to the unit. If you bought your 9 with it being altered already it may take a bit more to figure out.
Pictures and video help a lot.

Also a little tip, posting pictures is easy and fast using Tapatalk app for desktop or mobile device.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good point, pics help. I stripped things down to having just the Revo light installed, took the LED strip out of the equation (eliminating variables here). Problem seems unrelated (but at least the led strip working confirms that the stock wires and fuses are fine)
Just FYI, bike is a 2017, bought new last year, so nobody messed with it before me. Tried installing with both the stock relay and the relay that came with the light. Same issue both ways. Keeping custom relay in.

Full setup: plug to plug, blue turn signal wire (Revo's left) goes to the black turn signal wire from the stock harness, yellow wire (Revo's right) goes to the light green turn signal wire.
Hood Automotive lighting Bumper Electrical wiring Motor vehicle


With both turn signals installed, this is my "running light". Brake light still only works on that middle strip (that doesn't have yellow LEDs)
Automotive parking light Automotive lighting Hood Automotive tire Automotive design


Turn signal does work when hooked up though
Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Automotive lighting Light Amber


As do the running lights and brake lights when I disconnect both turn signal wires:
Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Automotive side marker light Land vehicle Vehicle

Closeup of the plug situation (which I'm now suspecting... somehow). Brake wire from stock (white with black edge) goes to tail light's red, Ground wire stock (black with white edge) goes to tail light's black, and Running light stock (Grey) goes to tail light's white. Starting to wonder if this is messed up, and I need to rework the wires in the plug... Before I start slicing that up though... anyone got other ideas?
Gas Gadget Cable Wire Electrical supply

PS: Ignore the posi-tap there, that's just for the brake light on the LED strip.

Thanks for your time folks, this is really quite confusing... and I refuse to believe that I'm unlucky enough to get two broken tail lights from two different manufacturers, back-to-back, exhibiting the same problem... I must be missing something...
 

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... However... and this is the issue that's got me confused... as soon as I hook up one of the turn signal wires, blue or yellow, to the corresponding pulsing 12v wire (i.e. T-splice it into the same wire that's driving the custom dynamics led turn signals just fine), the running/braking lights on that side of the integrated tail light no longer work. ...
Reminds me of a similar surprise I had when doing a bunch of turn signal wiring up front. IIRC, I believe the "turn signal" lines pulse 12V but go to GROUND between pulses and may "float" when not active. This could be (maybe?) effectively draining out your LED brake light, as it depends entirely on how that circuit is wired. This does NOT explain however, the lights staying dead DURING a 12V pulse. That part is confusing.

One possible solution, if it were me, would be to try testing a diode in line with the turn signal leads going to your brake light. If this is in fact the problem, properly sized diodes (4 Amp would be sufficient for a 48W draw, which your LED brake light surely doesn't request) would prevent the brake light from "shorting to ground" against the unused turn signal leads. Again, please note - this solution is perfectly safe to try, even if you get the diodes in "backwards" (stripe points to the brake light side of the wire) - but doesn't explain why the light doesn't fire during a 12V turn signal pulse; I would have expected it to work during the pulse but go off when inactive.

As attached.
Rectangle Font Parallel Slope Magenta
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Interesting. That might be the issue. I'll see if I can track down something like that.

I made a post yesterday with some pictures attached, but apparently it didn't show up. Maybe still waiting mod approval?
 

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That's my 9 above. I went back to the stock brake light as the LED was difficult to see on sunny days. It was not a Revo unit.
Can you post a picture of the wiring you have going on right now and also you do have the correct LED flasher unit installed, not the stock one?
That might help others help you. I'm no wire expert. When I did mine we went from stock to the unit. If you bought your 9 with it being altered already it may take a bit more to figure out.
Pictures and video help a lot.

Also a little tip, posting pictures is easy and fast using Tapatalk app for desktop or mobile device.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I had the exact same problem with lack of LED brightness during the day. I switched back to the stock light and got a row of LEDs to act as turn signals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Having trouble replying to this thread for some reason. Made a post with some images earlier... still nothing... Here goes another attempt:

Full setup. LED strip not involved
Hood Automotive lighting Bumper Electrical wiring Motor vehicle


with both turn signals hooked up, red led no longer light up for either running or brake:
Automotive parking light Automotive lighting Hood Automotive tire Automotive design

though the turn signals work fine
Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Automotive lighting Light Amber

and when I disconnect them, all red lights work again:
Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Automotive side marker light Land vehicle Vehicle


I think the diode idea might work. Only way this makes sense is if the live +12v wire for the turn signal is grounded when off cycle. Wonder if this is a 2017 thing... clearly folks on older bikes had no trouble installing this light. Did anyone install it on a 2017+ model? Pretty sure the bike's unchanged for over a decade now, but then you'd think this issue would be more common.

The intended behavior is that when the turn signal pulses, red lights turn off, blinkers come on. So I'll try the diode trick and see if that explains anything.
 

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Ah! Ok! Pics fixed a misundetstanding I had - signals DO work on pulse, as I suspected they should. I would *definitely* then try the diode solution. This should effectively make the brake perceive NO connection to the turn signal wires UNLESS power is running through them.

As for "Why not everyone else," my suspicions would lead me to the Light over the Bike due to small changes/tweaks/upgrades by developer or their supplier, but Im just guessing.

Edit: if you are soldering the diodes inline with the wires (as I would recommend you do) keep in mind diodes are HEAT sensitive and can be destroyed by excessive soldering iron heat. Try to be quick with the heat. I mean...they arent snowflakes but dont bake'em. If you put them in the wrong direction your clue will be that the turn signal doesnt work at all...just reverse them if that happens. Gray bar should point towards the brake light. Good luck.
 

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Having trouble replying to this thread for some reason. Made a post with some images earlier... still nothing... Here goes another attempt:

Full setup. LED strip not involved
View attachment 375585

with both turn signals hooked up, red led no longer light up for either running or brake:
View attachment 375601
though the turn signals work fine
View attachment 375609
and when I disconnect them, all red lights work again:
View attachment 375617

I think the diode idea might work. Only way this makes sense is if the live +12v wire for the turn signal is grounded when off cycle. Wonder if this is a 2017 thing... clearly folks on older bikes had no trouble installing this light. Did anyone install it on a 2017+ model? Pretty sure the bike's unchanged for over a decade now, but then you'd think this issue would be more common.

The intended behavior is that when the turn signal pulses, red lights turn off, blinkers come on. So I'll try the diode trick and see if that explains anything.
I installed the REVO blacked out taillight with e Gen5 Knightrider and everything works perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
So i was quite sure this diode thing was going to work. Made sense... but no luck. So i hooked up the diode, the right way (gray bar towards consumer) and it's like nothing happened.

Not sure i understand the circuit inside revos light. I thought left blinker had one input wire, right blinker had one input wire, as did drl and brake, and they all shared one ground wire (black wire, part of the trio of wires in the plug). The bike's turn signal wire becoming grounded on the off phase of the pulse shouldn't happen, but if it did, it would explain things. The diode should have fixed that, but there was zero difference.

Anyone happen to have the internal wiring diagram for revo's light? I'll draw a diagram of what i have hooked up and post it here later tonight, just to confirm...

Also, could the front turn signals affect this? Do you guys know if that's a separate circuit or not?I have flatz that my dealer installed, and I'm starting to question what they did up there, although those always work unaffected by all my trials on the rear.

Just to confirm, i made sure the diode isn't busted. Mounted it the other way and turn signals stopped working. Still had red light on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Interesting observation... when the turn signal wires are hooked up, and the drls and brake lights no longer work, the front turn signals, the flatz, shine brighter in drl mode....
 

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Interesting observation... when the turn signal wires are hooked up, and the drls and brake lights no longer work, the front turn signals, the flatz, shine brighter in drl mode....
Ok, so yes that is completely unexpected and bizarre. I discussed your case further with some other electronics nerds and their first suggestion was also a diode until I told them what happened when you tried it. Now we are of the opinion something is fubar further upstream - running light line or something has been crossed up front maybe when installing the Flatz? Especially if the Flatz are 2 wire (or are they 3?)

Reasoning is: When you connect those "input" blue and yellow wires to the "idle" turn signal line - NOTHING should happen. As we cannot know exactly what your brake light internals are doing, we are working from the outside, in. Do you have a multimeter? I would move back a step and actually prove your lines now, as they are not reacting normally. Connecting the blue and yellow wires to 12V solid should either turn the yellow on or kill the running red as it is doing, in preparation for the ground pulse which follows - again, it depends on the internals of the brake light. Connecting them to GROUND should similarly do nothing or short them dark, also happening.

So we need to confirm what your wires (running green, pulse black or lime, ground blk/wht, and the brake line whatever colour that is) are actually carrying, in 3 states - Bike Off (in case of short or direct feed), Bike On (check for running light circuit), and Turn signal flashing (test the signal pulse). "Something" isn't known, to be able to offer a solution.

In each state, you want to know the state of each wire. Then you can troubleshoot further.
My 2¢...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for your help so far NoSet, it's been quite the experience.

The wires off the bike seem to be behaving. The Custom Dynamics LED strip working just fine when connected either solo or with the integrated tail light.
What's more, with the system live, I took the blue wire (one of the turn signals) and touched it to the DRL light for the license plate, and sure enough, the yellow turn signals came on, and the red lights went off, as is expected when it gets power.
The really odd behavior is when there is no power, and connecting that same wire to ground, or to a reversed diode, or any other "dead" wire yields, as expected, nothing. Red light stays on. So even with the turn signal light hooked up straight to ground, red light still works. It's literally only when I hook it up to the turn signal wire, and that wire is not pulsing, that it all sorta goes to hell.

Now I do have another suspect: the front turn signal, the flatz, are brighter when I hook up the rear turn signals and invalidate the DRL on the taillight. To me, that means that the excess power that's supposed to go to the DRL is pouring into the front turn signals, making them shine brighter. So at this point, I blame the dealership that installed my front turn signals. Pretty sure they screwed something up there, since the flatz are running DRL + turn signal... you'd think it would be a separate circuit or something...

So next I'd have to tear apart the front of the bike and follow some wires there, dig up the multimeter from the bottom of some tool box and try to map the whole circuit....
So what I did instead was hook up the LED strip, hook up Revo's light as simply a DRL + brake light (like stock), using only the LED strip turn signals, and I put the bike back together and hit up the canyon roads. Honestly the bike's been in pieces for a while now due to this and my limited time to fix it, and I just had to ride! the LED strip is great, very bright, should be good enough, for now anyway.

I think I'll leave it for now, and next time I take it in to my local bike shop (i.e. not the screwy dealership from before) I'll ask if they can do a sanity check on the turn signal wiring, front-to-back.
I'll update this post with some more info if I end up learning something, but for now, I have some asphalt to tear up.

Thanks for your help folks.
 
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