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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so I finally put together my own Bottlefed air intake using the short Spectre cone filters. It looks awesome, but I'm worried I leaned out my bike too much. I don't have a PCIII yet, and honestly, I can't afford one right now with Wife and daughter's birthday as well as Christmas coming next month. I haven't ridden the mod yet, so I don't know how it rides, but I seriously doubt it's gonna feel real powerful if I leaned it out. Anyway, the reason I think I leaned it out too much is because I cranked it and let it idle for maybe 5 or 6 minutes. In that short time I could feel the heat radiating off the engine and exhaust. My heat shields, which usually stay cool enough to touch, were hot enough to scorch my microfibre cloth as I wiped them. When I cut the bike off, I could hear the metal creaking and pinging as it cooled off... much more than normal, especially after just idling the bike. I'm almost scared to ride the bike any real distance for fear of overheating it and causing damage. Should I remove this intake and return to stock until I get a PCIII and a custom map, or are my fears of damage overblown? I want this bike to last a long time. I like this intake, but not enough to risk damaging my bike because it's too lean and running hot. Anyway, I guess I better include pics of the mod to avoid the dreaded NoPic smiley...







 

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Medic1210 said:
Ok, so I finally put together my own Bottlefed air intake using the short Spectre cone filters. It looks awesome, but I'm worried I leaned out my bike too much. I don't have a PCIII yet, and honestly, I can't afford one right now with Wife and daughter's birthday as well as Christmas coming next month. I haven't ridden the mod yet, so I don't know how it rides, but I seriously doubt it's gonna feel real powerful if I leaned it out. Anyway, the reason I think I leaned it out too much is because I cranked it and let it idle for maybe 5 or 6 minutes. In that short time I could feel the heat radiating off the engine and exhaust. My heat shields, which usually stay cool enough to touch, were hot enough to scorch my microfibre cloth as I wiped them. When I cut the bike off, I could hear the metal creaking and pinging as it cooled off... much more than normal, especially after just idling the bike. I'm almost scared to ride the bike any real distance for fear of overheating it and causing damage. Should I remove this intake and return to stock until I get a PCIII and a custom map, or are my fears of damage overblown? I want this bike to last a long time. I like this intake, but not enough to risk damaging my bike because it's too lean and running hot. Anyway, I guess I better include pics of the mod to avoid the dreaded NoPic smiley...
First off, that looks really good! :bigthumbsup:

On the lean part, Maniac ( I hope I am giving the credit to the right person ) did a resistor mod to fool the ecu into thinking it was cold out. Supposedly, adding more fuel across the board. I would do a search to see if you can dig it up. I don't think he posts much, anymore. This would be one way to go while you save up your money for the PCIII.

Here are some links that may help:
http://www.m109riders.com/forum/index.php?topic=1933.msg23472#msg23472
http://www.m109riders.com/forum/index.php?topic=444.msg4398#msg4398
 

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Hey Medic... the intake looks good. :bigthumbsup:

Being debaffled with a better breathing intake you probably are pretty lean, I know my bike was when I did this.
(If you want I can dig up the post of my Dyno sheet which shows before tuning with this air setup)

Is your fan kicking on and staying on? Might be an indicator as to how hot the bike really is...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

JUtah said:
Is your fan kicking on and staying on? Might be an indicator as to how hot the bike really is...
Well, I didn't really let it run that long. I just can tell that the exhaust gasses seem considerably hotter just based on feel. I think my comment above about the exhaust scorching the microfibre towel may be a bit incorrect though... I had sprayed it with Pro Honda polish, and I think that may be what scorched. Either way, I can definitely feel more heat radiating off the motor/exhaust. The thick heat shield behind the foot rest is even hot enough to burn you pretty quick... which is not how it used to be. I have heard of a guy about an hour or so from my house that can re-program the ECM. I guess I could do that until I can afford a PCIII and Dyno time (almost $600 total). I'm sure the ECM program would be quite a bit cheaper.
 

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I did mine about a month and 300 miles ago and no worries. If you still have factory exhaust without gutting them, you still can only take in as much air as you can let out, still enough back pressure. But just my opinion. I say ride it
 
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Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

Medic1210 said:
Well, I didn't really let it run that long. I just can tell that the exhaust gasses seem considerably hotter just based on feel. I think my comment above about the exhaust scorching the microfibre towel may be a bit incorrect though... I had sprayed it with Pro Honda polish, and I think that may be what scorched. Either way, I can definitely feel more heat radiating off the motor/exhaust. The thick heat shield behind the foot rest is even hot enough to burn you pretty quick... which is not how it used to be. I have heard of a guy about an hour or so from my house that can re-program the ECM. I guess I could do that until I can afford a PCIII and Dyno time (almost $600 total). I'm sure the ECM program would be quite a bit cheaper.
Lamont was running his around with the Cobra pipes and big air with the FI2000 on 0,0,0 for a long time without any issues. My bike was only lean at idle and under 2000 rpm, at 4,000 rpm it dropped to 12.5 to 1.

TAZ
 

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Relax.... I have custom exhaust and the same filtering system as you and no pc3 and have been riding in the 30's, up to the rev limiter in 5th and drag racing stop light to stop light and havent hurt anything. Besides its a 4 stroke it has a lot bigger temp tolerance than the 2 strokes(thankfully).
 

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Daniel357 said:
I did mine about a month and 300 miles ago and no worries. If you still have factory exhaust without gutting them, you still can only take in as much air as you can let out, still enough back pressure. But just my opinion. I say ride it
I believe Medic is completely debaffled... if memory serves me correctly he put together a very nice "How To" video on doing it with sound samples at each baffle.

Medic... I rode my bike for about a month or so during the summer before I put on the PCIII and yes it was running hotter, but what I kept watching for was the Cooling fan... It only came on when idling for a while, and even then it would cycle with fairly short cycles...

Tough to give you a good recommendation on this one as I am not debaffled, do probably wasnt as lean...
I do think if the Bike is getting too hot that cooling fan will give you an indication.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

raw_taz said:
Lamont was running his around with the Cobra pipes and big air with the FI2000 on 0,0,0 for a long time without any issues. My bike was only lean at idle and under 2000 rpm, at 4,000 rpm it dropped to 12.5 to 1.

TAZ
But Lamont's bike was still rich... even at 0,0,0. He mentioned that he had to get the PCIII because the FI2000 wouldn't let him take any fuel away, it would only add fuel. I think Lamont is probably a couple thousand feet higher than me above sea level, so I'm not sure how that affects his compared to mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

i like my 109 said:
Medic,

Before my Brawny mod I rode my bike at least 20 miles without any air filtration whatsoever. Bike ran like a champ. As for the bike cool down noise, I've never owned a bike that didn't do it. Metal cooling (contracting) makes the sound. It's quite normal.
I'm aware of the cooling noises... I just found it odd that my bike was popping like I just hopped off it after riding a couple hundred hard miles when it had only been idling for about 6 minutes or so. It was a very comfortable 72 degrees outside too, so it's not like the air was much cooler than normal and speeding up the cooldown.

Your air filter mod won't change a thing. Your bike will still run and ride just like before the mod. I guarantee it.
I appreciate your confidence and assurance that nothing changes with a more open intake, but I'm pretty sure it's been proven that if you let more air into the bike, it does change things like the A/F ratio... even if only a little. If our bikes ran just like before the intake mods, then there would be no point in doing them, no? More air means more power if you can give the bike the right amount of fuel to make use of all that air. If you can't, your bike runs lean, which can cause it to run hot, which the hot exhaust gasses can cause detonation issues... which from what I've read, can be an issue with this bike. That's my whole concern. :bigthumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

RedHed said:
Relax.... I have custom exhaust and the same filtering system as you and no pc3 and have been riding in the 30's, up to the rev limiter in 5th and drag racing stop light to stop light and havent hurt anything. Besides its a 4 stroke it has a lot bigger temp tolerance than the 2 strokes(thankfully).
Thanks for the info. I just hope your bike isn't detonating without you hearing it. It has been documented on this site that a couple members have had detonation issues. I don't want to increase the chance of detonation on my bike.

I'm still taking in everyone's suggestions though... Most likely I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy a PCIII, even if I gotta put it on plastic. I would feel much more at ease using one of the maps available on this site. I know it won't be the absolute best, but I feel it will be an improvement over just the stock ECM.
 
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I am 1200 Feet here and mine was rich up high, they are lean down low at idle. JeffW just post a dyno sheet of his JSD and it was also lean down low and plenty rich up high.

I am not sure where you are at, but I am of the opinion that you are pretty safe to ride it. You are going to want to get the PCIII and a map on it to get it closer to making the best power. You should be able to do the PCIII and load one of the maps on the board here to get by for a while until you can pay to get "your" set-up mapped properly. It is liquid cooled and it will let you know when you are pushing the envelope long before it is going to pop. Of course this is my two cents. But from all the dyno sheets I have seen you are pretty safe there with the air.

I mean think about it if you laid the stock bike down and broke one of those plastic covers but where still able to ride it I am sure that Suziki has enough margin there to make it safe to drive home.

Even debaffled the stock pipe is 1.75 all the way to the catalytic converter which is small for the amount that this engine can breathe.

I would not put a High Flow pipe on it without proper mapping though.

Again my 2 cents.

TAZ
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

JUtah said:
I believe Medic is completely debaffled... if memory serves me correctly he put together a very nice "How To" video on doing it with sound samples at each baffle.
Yeah, that was me.... but I'm not completely debaffled. I couldn't reach the third inner baffle wall in each pipe. I guess I'm as close to completely debaffled as I can get without being completely gutted though. I'm not real sure what difference that last wall makes anyway... I guess it could be just as free flowing now as it would be had I removed that last wall. :dontknow:

Medic... I rode my bike for about a month or so during the summer before I put on the PCIII and yes it was running hotter, but what I kept watching for was the Cooling fan... It only came on when idling for a while, and even then it would cycle with fairly short cycles...

Tough to give you a good recommendation on this one as I am not debaffled, do probably wasnt as lean...
I do think if the Bike is getting too hot that cooling fan will give you an indication.
I'm pretty sure there is an elevation difference between us also, so I'm not sure how much a difference that makes. Like I said, I'm probably gonna just bite the bullet and toss a PCIII on my card. I don't want to, but it will make me more comfortable riding my bike with the new intake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

raw_taz said:
I am 1200 Feet here and mine was rich up high, they are lean down low at idle. JeffW just post a dyno sheet of his JSD and it was also lean down low and plenty rich up high.

I am not sure where you are at, but I am of the opinion that you are pretty safe to ride it. You are going to want to get the PCIII and a map on it to get it closer to making the best power. You should be able to do the PCIII and load one of the maps on the board here to get by for a while until you can pay to get "your" set-up mapped properly. It is liquid cooled and it will let you know when you are pushing the envelope long before it is going to pop. Of course this is my two cents. But from all the dyno sheets I have seen you are pretty safe there with the air.

I mean think about it if you laid the stock bike down and broke one of those plastic covers but where still able to ride it I am sure that Suziki has enough margin there to make it safe to drive home.

Even debaffled the stock pipe is 1.75 all the way to the catalytic converter which is small for the amount that this engine can breathe.

I would not put a High Flow pipe on it without proper mapping though.

Again my 2 cents.

TAZ
Thanks for the info Taz... I wish I had a dyno around that would just let me pay a small fee to strap me on and check my power and a/f ratio so I would know where I stand.
 
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Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

Medic1210 said:
Thanks for the info Taz... I wish I had a dyno around that would just let me pay a small fee to strap me on and check my power and a/f ratio so I would know where I stand.
The PCIII has manual adjustments just like the FI2000. So you could buy the PCIII and add some fuel on the low pot and be really good until you get a pipe on it.

TAZ
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

raw_taz said:
The PCIII has manual adjustments just like the FI2000. So you could buy the PCIII and add some fuel on the low pot and be really good until you get a pipe on it.

TAZ
So with the PCIII, do you adjust things with the little dials if you're downloading a pre-made map from this site too? Another question... Are all PCIIIs wired alike, or do I need a model specific to the 109? I know my dealer has a couple PCIIIs in stock, but I'm not sure if they're for the 109.
 
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Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

Medic1210 said:
So with the PCIII, do you adjust things with the little dials if you're downloading a pre-made map from this site too? Another question... Are all PCIIIs wired alike, or do I need a model specific to the 109? I know my dealer has a couple PCIIIs in stock, but I'm not sure if they're for the 109.
Model specific, it plugs into the wiring harness. There three keypads on the side of it to adjust it in a very general fashion. When a map is done they should adjust your fuel curve 250 rpms at a time with 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 percent loads. They should also adjust your fuel curve at cruising speeds to save you on your MPG. It took us at Thuner 3 hours to get this done completly. Some of that time was allowing the Dyno cell to cool off. 60% load at 5000 RPM makes alot of heat.

http://www.powercommander.com/

You can see the buttons on the side of the unit.

TAZ
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

raw_taz said:
Model specific, it plugs into the wiring harness. There three keypads on the side of it to adjust it in a very general fashion. When a map is done they should adjust your fuel curve 250 rpms at a time with 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 percent loads. They should also adjust your fuel curve at cruising speeds to save you on your MPG. It took us at Thuner 3 hours to get this done completly. Some of that time was allowing the Dyno cell to cool off. 60% load at 5000 RPM makes alot of heat.

http://www.powercommander.com/

You can see the buttons on the side of the unit.

TAZ
Thanks bud. I figured it was probably model specific. That most likely means that the one's my dealer has in stock are not gonna fit my bike. I will ask them tomorrow. Now, if I get one, and just download a map from this site that was using an intake like mine and stock pipes just to get me close, do I just hook it up to the computer and install it, or do I need to mess with those dials too? The way I'm reading it, it sounds like the dials are for fine tuning with a dyno specific to your bike. Am I right, or will I have to adjust the dials to go along with the map I download from here?
 
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Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

Medic1210 said:
Thanks bud. I figured it was probably model specific. That most likely means that the one's my dealer has in stock are not gonna fit my bike. I will ask them tomorrow. Now, if I get one, and just download a map from this site that was using an intake like mine and stock pipes just to get me close, do I just hook it up to the computer and install it, or do I need to mess with those dials too? The way I'm reading it, it sounds like the dials are for fine tuning with a dyno specific to your bike. Am I right, or will I have to adjust the dials to go along with the map I download from here?
I would install it and then snatch one of the maps and ride it to see how it is and then go from there. They are there to make general adjustments for changes in local or conditions.

But keep in mind your are not going to be 100% until you get your bike mapped.

TAZ
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: I did my 'Bottlefed' Air Intake and I got a question (Lamont, JR, Perry,et a

raw_taz said:
I would install it and then snatch one of the maps and ride it to see how it is and then go from there. They are there to make general adjustments for changes in local or conditions.

But keep in mind your are not going to be 100% until you get your bike mapped.

TAZ
Gotchya, thanks. :bigthumbsup:
 
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