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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I installed a PCIII a few days ago, now my idle seems to be high after the bike warms up. The manual says idle should be minimum 900rpm.... before the PCIII idle was about 1000rpm. Now engine idle seems to climb to 1300 or so when it's warm.

A couple Suzuki techs informed me tht the PCIII seems to 'free' the engine up a bit once installed, even at idle.

Anyone else have this happen once they installed fuel management?

BTW, the power commander is the best money I've spent yet on this bike :D
 

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A fuel tuner shouldn't make it idle faster. Are you letting it go completely through it's startup process before trying to start it? You need to let the pump prime and the tach and speedo do their full cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No dyno tune yet, I've only had it installed a few days. I'm confident all the connections have been made properly, and I let the bike complete the FI cycle and wait to start. I'm using a map provided with the software.

The idle seems to climb as it warms, not off of start up.
 

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PCIII can make you idle fast if the map that is on it is adding fuel at idle.

What map do you have loaded?

Either go to Dynojet's site and try a few of their premade maps or plug up to computer and lower the numbers in the idle range.

That will fix you up until you get it tuned.

If not, it is not the PIII. Try unplugging it and see what the bike does without it.

Just curious why you went PCIII over the PCV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I went with the PCIII because of price... why else? :bigthumbsup: I got a deal I couldn't turn down.

The map shows 0 at throttle position 0 and 2 at the rpm range, so I don't think it's adding fuel at that range... I gues I could take some away??
 

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I asked because the PCIII and PCV are the same price but the PCV can do so much more and gives you more options.

But the right deal can push you one direction over the other.

If you are reading 0 in everything around the idle range, then it is not likely the PCIII itslef.

Unplug the PCIII from the harness and report back on how things work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I did get a great deal, however isn't the V just for 2009 models and newer? Mine is a 2007....

I'm headed to the garage to unplug. I will let you know how it idles.
 

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I installed a PCIII a few days ago, now my idle seems to be high after the bike warms up. The manual says idle should be minimum 900rpm.... before the PCIII idle was about 1000rpm. Now engine idle seems to climb to 1300 or so when it's warm.

A couple Suzuki techs informed me tht the PCIII seems to 'free' the engine up a bit once installed, even at idle.

Anyone else have this happen once they installed fuel management?

BTW, the power commander is the best money I've spent yet on this bike :D
Exact problem I had. The tuner added fuel in the low range and it calmed the idle down to 900. However, the bike was always pig rich on the bottom. After talking to Jame McCoy, he looked at his dyno sheets of bikes he had tuned and none of them had any fuel added. So, I hooked up the laptop and zero'd out those cells. The idle went right back up as I was editing it live while the bike was running. I lived with the rich condition for a year and then just sold the pc3 and put a FI2000R on it and it has been perfect ever since.
 

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I did get a great deal, however isn't the V just for 2009 models and newer? Mine is a 2007....

I'm headed to the garage to unplug. I will let you know how it idles.
No, they lie to sell PCIIIs.

My PCV is on my 2006.
 

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One thing you can do is call Dynojet tech support.

Those guys kick azz.

They will walk you through things like calibrating your throttle position and all kinds of stuff you will never find any instructions on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
One thing you can do is call Dynojet tech support.

Those guys kick azz.

They will walk you through things like calibrating your throttle position and all kinds of stuff you will never find any instructions on.
Yep, going to have to give those guys a call. I unplugged it (which is a huge pain in the a$$) let it warm up, and it idled just fine when warm. Plugged it back in and it was high again. Nutz.
 

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I have this problem 3 years.
I never stoping find out the issue. Finally I finger out this problem.
For this , I bought 2 PCIII.Test and test.

Nozzle and relay made 0.01-0.09 Volt entry PC3 connect TPS wire.
So when you turn on the ignite , the PC3 Throttle open angle show 0%
But when you star the engine run in idle.Sometime show 3% in throttle open angle.

If some can help me transfor my chinese.Appreciate!! Many thanks.

在汽機車的領域中,電腦的改裝是最為複雜,也因此成為最終與最高階的象徵。我們可以輕而易舉的去購買手把、腳踏、甚至是鋁圈等產品安裝,而它絕對沒有什麼後遺症,只僅於你適不適應而已。其次引擎的動力區塊,例如空濾、排氣管、高壓比活塞、高角度凸輪,甚至是渦輪或機械增壓,這些改裝品的安裝也沒有太大困難,但是真正困難的是如何針對這些硬體的改變然後給予適當且匹配的軟體配合,而這軟體當然就是指改裝電腦的部份。
每個人會選用不同的空濾、不同的排氣管、不同的.....因此對於適應的軟體map當然也會有所不同,並不單是複製過去就可以辦到,況且這裡頭可能還包括操駕的習慣在裡頭,例如你的慣用轉速域以及油門的深淺等,這就是客製化map的需求由來。
我使用改裝電腦將近三年了,這個Dyno Jet Power Commander III(以下簡稱PC3)一直困擾著我,裝在別人車上,似乎沒有多大的問題,但是裝在我車上,每隔一陣子就會有問題,先前我找出了PC3本身與電腦相連結時,所需9V恆時電源的問題,這部份可以確保在PC3設定與檔案傳輸時的萬無一失,包擴節氣門角度設定以及Map資料的上傳,在這過程中只要你能提供穩定的9V電壓,那麼車上的PC3將會為你保留最完整的資料data。而這個問題我直到兩年後才找到答案並且解決。

原本以為如此就萬無一失,所有的問題都解決了,可是我的怠速依舊不穩,正常時如同原廠設定在850-900轉之間,可是不正常時,怠速卻會飆到1200轉左右,後續操駕起來,也覺得map好像對應不上,這個問題我想了好久。直到Morgan的LED改裝與防盜器共用負極會發生干擾時,才讓我對電磁波干擾部份有所重視。

事實上一個好的電子產品,除了產品自身的功能以外,電路設計和電磁相容性(EMC)設計技術水準,對產品的品質和技術性能指標起到非常關鍵的作用。像是開關電源的電磁就會產生電子產品中干擾的問題產生。問題從這裡往下追查,我發現打開機車電源後,PC3顯示節氣門開啟角度為0%,但是一旦發動引擎,我並沒有碰油門,可是油門開起度卻顯示3%,不過事實上用原廠檢修電腦與原車連線,它的開啟度並沒有變化。這說明了原車電路系統不存在電位差問題,可是某個東西讓PC3產生電位差的改變,而這東西存在於發動引擎後。

什麼東西會產生電位差,磁生電、電生磁,問題應該就發生在這裡。

現代的電子產品,功能越來越強大,電子線路也越來越複雜,電磁干擾(EMI)和電磁相容性問題變成了主要問題,電路設計對設計師的技術水準要求也越來越高。先進的電腦輔助設計在電子線路設計方面很大程度地進展,拓寬了電路設計師的工作能力,但對於電磁相容設計上又是另一個課題。

電磁相容設計實際上就是針對電子產品中產生的電磁干擾進行最佳化設計,使之能成為符合各國或地區電磁相容性標準的產品。EMC的定義是:在同一電磁環境中,設備能夠不因為其它設備的干擾影響正常工作,同時也不對其它設備產生影響工作的干擾,通訊類產品需要受到NCC管制原因就在這裡。

事實上電路的干擾不僅止於可發射訊號的通訊產品而已,電磁干擾一般分為兩種,傳導干擾和輻射干擾。傳導干擾是指透過導電介質把一個電網路上的訊號,耦合(干擾)到另一個電網路。輻射干擾是指干擾源透過空間把其訊號耦合(干擾)到另一個電網路。而我們汽機車上所會遇到的問題,以後者居多。

電磁感應與電磁干擾

一般電子線路都是由電阻器、電容器、繼電器、變壓器、主動元件和導線組成,當電路中有電壓存在的時候,在所有帶電的元件周圍都會產生電場,當電路中有電流流過的時候,在所有載流體的周圍都存在磁場。

電容器是電場最集中的元件,流過電容器的電流是位移電流,這個位移電流是由於電容器的兩個極板帶電,並在兩個極板之間產生電場,透過電場感應,兩個極板會產生充放電,形成位移電流。實際上電容器迴路中的電流並沒有真正流過電容器,而只是對電容器進行充放電。

當電容器的兩個極板張開時,可以把兩個極板看成是一組電場輻射天線,此時在兩個極板之間的電路都會對極板之間的電場產生感應。在兩極板之間的電路不管是閉合迴路,或者是開路,在與電場方向一致的導體中都會產生位移電流(當電場的方向不斷改變時),即電流一會兒向前跑,一會兒向後跑。不過我們的車上並沒有電容的設計,因此這部份的問題被我排除。

電場強度的定義是電位梯度,即兩點之間的電位差與距離之比。一根數米長的導線,當其流過數安培的電流時,其兩端電壓最多也只有零點幾伏,即幾十毫伏/米的電場強度,就可以在導體內產生數安培的電流,可見電場作用效力之大,其干擾能力之強。這個理論應該就是我109的問題所在。

電感器和變壓器是磁場最集中的元件,流過變壓器次級線圈的電流是感應電流,這個感應電流是因為變壓器初級線圈中有電流流過時,產生磁感應而產生的。在電感器和變壓器周邊的電路,都可看成是一個變壓器的感應線圈,當電感器和變壓器漏感產生的磁力線穿過某個電路時,此電路作為變壓器的『次級線圈』就會產生感應電流。兩個相鄰迴路的電路,也同樣可以把其中的一個迴路看成是變壓器的『初級線圈』,而另一個迴路可以看成是變壓器的『次級線圈』,因此兩個相鄰迴路同樣產生電磁感應,即互相產生干擾。因此我們的車將變壓器即整流器,設置在最偏遠的地方,後輪的前端下方,遠離車上任何電子產品在電子線路中只要有電場或磁場存在,就會產生電磁干擾。在電路系統設計中,高頻訊號線、積體電路的接腳、各類接插件等都可能成為具有天線特性的輻射干擾源,能發射電磁波並影響其它系統或本系統內其他子系統的正常工作。因此電子廠慣用鋁箔、銅箔等,作為訊號遮蔽的掩體。

繼電器的電磁干擾

汽機車上慣用繼電器來啟動系統與提供系統用電,這種開關式電源供電,不僅可以節省能源,也能系統提高工作效率;同時越來越多的產品改以數位或積體電路,以提供更多的應用功能,例如我們車上的PAIS、STVC、SET等等。繼電器電路和數位電路中的時脈電路是目前電子產品中最主要的電磁干擾源。

我們車上也有使用脈衝訊號傳遞,在脈衝的電路系統中,會有電流諧波的抑制問題,不過汽機車的脈衝訊號往往用在儀錶,這部份影響不大,同時更可以用濾波器或是校正程式來克服。其次就是振鈴電壓的產生,不過這部分與變壓器有關,由於位置偏僻,因此也被我予以排除。 不過在傳導干擾訊號的抑制上,在原車噴射供油系統與PC3之間,就沒有這樣的防禦設計,原因是感應電動勢與電流迴路的面積成正比。因此要減少電磁干擾,首先是要設法減少電流迴路的面積,特別是電流流過的迴路面積。例如我們車的兩個噴油嘴線路與PC3串聯,都會形成迴路面積,這部份就有必要予以改善。

最後電磁輻射干擾也可能發生在我的車上,這種電磁感應主要由帶電體或電流迴路及磁感應迴路對外產生電磁輻射。事實上任何一根導體都可以看成是一根電磁感應天線,任何一個電流迴路都可以看成是一個環形天線,電感線圈和變壓器漏感也是電磁感應輻射的重要元件。要想完全抑制電磁輻射是不可能的,但透過對電路進行合理設計,或者採取部份屏蔽措施,可以大幅減輕電磁干擾的輻射。

例如,盡量縮短電路接腳的長度和減少電流迴路的面積,是減少電磁輻射的有效方法;以及防止電路中的主動元件對電源線和接地線產生串擾;把電源接腳的負極和訊號源的嚴格分開,或對訊號接腳採取雙線平行對中交叉的方法,讓干擾訊號互相抵銷,也就是正負電並列,這相當於雙迴路,干擾訊號也會互相抵銷,是一種減少電磁輻射的有效方法;最後是對電磁干擾部位進行屏蔽,對訊號接腳還可以採取雙地線平行屏蔽的方法,讓訊號線夾在兩條平行地線的中間,屏蔽效果亦非常顯著。

說明:Suzuki車系對電裝品相當敏感,很多可以用在Honda、Yamaha的無線電、反雷達、檔位顯示器等,不見得可以用在該廠牌車款上,其次,每台109不見得都有外洩電磁的困擾,我所遇到的問題,在美國109改裝PC3的車主中,僅只有部分有遇到,大多數人安裝PC3是沒有問題的。

目前我將PC3所有線路進行屏蔽,並且將線路所經之處的電磁噴油嘴、繼電器、電磁閥都做遮蔽與隔離,而先前我109在啟動紅火段與發動引擎下,節氣門會有3%的開啟差異(即0.01-0.09V的微小電壓),現在透過這樣的改裝已經被消除,怠速十分穩定。

原本沒有進行遮蔽前 節氣門訊號接收線 穿過由電磁閥構成的噴油嘴上方當引擎轉速高 噴油嘴高速作動下 所產生的磁場就越強

原本的PC3 線路沒有任何的防干擾設計

加以防干擾改裝

安裝回車上 線路避免繞圈 以及接近電磁性的配備旁

PC3背後有許多的系統啟動繼電器 也都有強大的電磁產生
與以遮蔽隔離
 

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Yep, going to have to give those guys a call. I unplugged it (which is a huge pain in the a$$) let it warm up, and it idled just fine when warm. Plugged it back in and it was high again. Nutz.
I meant unplug the PCIII box from the wire, not the connections from the throttle bodies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I meant unplug the PCIII box from the wire, not the connections from the throttle bodies.

I guess I'm not sure what connection you are talking about.... The box doesn't seem to unplug, it's hard wired..... There are only 3 connections, the TPS sensor and the injectors. There is no ecu connection on the PCIII.
 

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I meant unplug the PCIII box from the wire, not the connections from the throttle bodies.

I guess I'm not sure what connection you are talking about.... The box doesn't seem to unplug, it's hard wired..... There are only 3 connections, the TPS sensor and the injectors. There is no ecu connection on the PCIII.
Yeah, looking at Rainey's pics, it looks like they are now hard wired to the box.

The PCIII I had, you could unplug the box and the harness could stay on the bike.

My PCV was hard-wired to the harness and I just figured it was a difference from the PCIII to the PCV, but it looks like they are saving themselves the harness on all of the new ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm still having trouble with this.... Idle seems to climb as the bike warms...not sure where to start since I can't read Chinese, but thank you Rainey! I do have a tre, unplugged it and had the same condition.

Where should I start? STP sensor.? Idle control motor? iSC valve?:dontknow:
 

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No, they lie to sell PCIIIs.

My PCV is on my 2006.
:agree: I also have a PCV on my 06 :bigthumbsup:

My idle is also a little higher than it should be at 1000rpm. It doesn't climb though.

Like Rainey, it was one thing I just lived with for whatever reason. On the weekend i'll dig out the laptop and plug it in and have a looksee.

Boogs
 

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I hate my poor english.

But please patience understand what I say.

2 problems ! one is stock another is installed PCIII or V


I believe some members have this experience that is
idle up to 1300rpm - 2500rpm.

After you trun ignite off and again . its gone. back to normal.

This situation always happen in over 2 year old 109r.

I finger out this issue , cause battery performance low down.

Maybe it still have over 12V , but ampere output no good.

After exchange new "Genuine" stock battery , it will go back normal.


So this issue make PC3 or PC5 lose correct TPS signal.

If you don't mod PC3 , and some time idle higher. almost cause of battery issue.

If you mod PC3 and idle higher . Maybe battery or maybe lost TPS.
 
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