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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is for info only:
We have recieved a couple of calls concerning fit issues on our Suzuki M109 "Mayhem" . We have indentifed an install problem, by the installer.
Our "Mayhem is supposed to have the collector mounted with an upward swing to it and the pipes parellel. Installers are trying to put the collector coming straight out, this is not correct. We designed the "Mayhem" to have an upward angle so it does not hit the ground during hard cornering.
Please check out the M109 on our website to see the upward angle of the collector, this M109 has the pipe mounted correctly.
THE UPWARD ANGLE IS FOR CORNERING CLEARANCE!

Ronnie Hacker
 

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So you mean I'm not the only one having this problem?

Unfortunately, even with all the allowable "upward swing" on the fabricated collector-to-frame bracket, it will not align correctly to frame, and there is still a very noticeable gap between the front pipe and the collector.

I had to wire brush the old sealant off and reseal the headpipes with RTV sealant and let sit overnight, then I went to ACE Hardware and got somewhat creative, and was able to reduce the gap somewhat by getting a 2.5 in bolt, a pack of rubber sink washers (4) from the plumbing aisle, and 6 rubber grommets that fit the bolt. I replaced the 1.5" bolt with the 2.5" bolt that came with the bracket, and shimmed the bracket with the grommets on the bolt head side of the bracket, and the 4 sink washers on the frame (back) side of the bracket. I did this of course after letting the RTV sealant cure for a day. It seemed to help a bit, but not completely.

I'll post some pictures of my attempt to correct the problem when I get home from LAX tomorrow night and get my bike back from the dyno. For now, here is are some pics of my bike and another member's who had "installer" problems (which is bullsh*t, by the way). See my signature picture below, the collector clearly has an "upward swing" and it ALSO has the gap you see in the attached pictures. Maybe its not the "installers" after all, as Hacker Customs says in his post............

Perhaps welding the collector to the head pipes at the proper upward swing, from the custom shop, would eliminate this issue at install. Is this something that could be done? Also, maybe consider having your technical writer add that the "upward swing" is the desired installation technique in your installation instructions, since it is not presently included. Just sincere suggestions to keep this problem from re-occuring. Glad to know I wasn't the only person who was having issues, like you said I was, Ronnie.

The pipes are loud and look great, except it sucks having to explain to everyone why they dont "sit flush". As I mentioned to another member having the same issue, these pipes are like seeing a really hot chick from a distance and then finding out she has a mustache.:doh:
 

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Hacker Customs,

You may want to check out this thread.

http://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115584

And you and your "customer service" gal may want to take a seminar or read a book about real customer service.

Word of mouth referrals/recommendations can be good, but also very bad for a business. :-\
 

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Hacker Customs,

You may want to check out this thread.

http://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115584

And you and your "customer service" gal may want to take a seminar or read a book about real customer service.

Word of mouth referrals/recommendations can be good, but also very bad for a business. :-
They aren't reading this. It's apparent the only reason they showed up was likely due to the possibility of negative publicity caused by an unhappy customer that mentioned the site.

Until someone else mentions this site, and their unhappiness, we won't see them here again.
 

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Unfortunately, even with all the allowable "upward swing" on the fabricated collector-to-frame bracket, it will not align correctly to frame, and there is still a very noticeable gap between the front pipe and the collector.

I had to wire brush the old sealant off and reseal the headpipes with RTV sealant and let sit overnight, then I went to ACE Hardware and got somewhat creative, and was able to reduce the gap somewhat by getting a 2.5 in bolt, a pack of rubber sink washers (4) from the plumbing aisle, and 6 rubber grommets that fit the bolt. I replaced the 1.5" bolt with the 2.5" bolt that came with the bracket, and shimmed the bracket with the grommets on the bolt head side of the bracket, and the 4 sink washers on the frame (back) side of the bracket. I did this of course after letting the RTV sealant cure for a day. It seemed to help a bit, but not completely.

I'll post some pictures of my attempt to correct the problem when I get home from LAX tomorrow night and get my bike back from the dyno. For now, here is are some pics of my bike and another member's who had "installer" problems (which is bullsh*t, by the way). See my signature picture below, the collector clearly has an "upward swing" and it ALSO has the gap you see in the attached pictures. Maybe its not the "installers" after all, as Hacker Customs says in his post............

Perhaps welding the collector to the head pipes at the proper upward swing, from the custom shop, would eliminate this issue at install. Is this something that could be done? Also, maybe consider having your technical writer add that the "upward swing" is the desired installation technique in your installation instructions, since it is not presently included. Just sincere suggestions to keep this problem from re-occuring. Glad to know I wasn't the only person who was having issues, like you said I was, Ronnie.

The pipes are loud and look great, except it sucks having to explain to everyone why they dont "sit flush". As I mentioned to another member having the same issue, these pipes are like seeing a really hot chick from a distance and then finding out she has a mustache.:doh:
Hey! I recognize that set of Crappers, I mean Hackers!!!! That's right, the chrome ones are mine and after spending nearly $700 on a set of pipes I got to cut the pipes to fit the collector correctly. I was even threatened by the ever-so-kind woman in "customer support."
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
understanding instructions

FYI: You can cause as much or as little problems as you want. Here are the facts: If the Mayhem is not installed properly by following the instructions, then problems will arise.
We only build approx 35 sets of the Mayhem for the M109 per year, these are not high production pipes by any means, these are in fact a nearly full custom pipe. As such a little finessing is in order. ALSO: Almost every picture I have seen has the collector pushed down, doing so causes undue stress on the collector, this in turn causes problems with chroming.
Also the use of RTV on the pipe/ collector junction does 2 things,
1: help insulate the collector from vibration
2: seals the exhaust from leakage.

We have recieved E mails saying these were professionally installed by dealers, then I look at the pictures sent, and can clearly see they were installed improperly.
By the way I heard what the lady said to you the guy, He was NOT threatened, he was told that he has 30 days from the time an RAN is given to send the pipe back in for inspection. This is not a threat!!!

Ronnie Hacker
 

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FYI: You can cause as much or as little problems as you want. Here are the facts: If the Mayhem is not installed properly by following the instructions, then problems will arise.
We only build approx 35 sets of the Mayhem for the M109 per year, these are not high production pipes by any means, these are in fact a nearly full custom pipe. As such a little finessing is in order. ALSO: Almost every picture I have seen has the collector pushed down, doing so causes undue stress on the collector, this in turn causes problems with chroming.
Also the use of RTV on the pipe/ collector junction does 2 things,
1: help insulate the collector from vibration
2: seals the exhaust from leakage.

We have recieved E mails saying these were professionally installed by dealers, then I look at the pictures sent, and can clearly see they were installed improperly.
By the way I heard what the lady said to you the guy, He was NOT threatened, he was told that he has 30 days from the time an RAN is given to send the pipe back in for inspection. This is not a threat!!!

Ronnie Hacker
Funny how this turns into a "the customer is incompetent" problem when two of us were told that the guy cutting the pipes for the suzukis was at fault because on the this model the collector slides into the pipes not the pipes into the collector as the other makes. And the threat was made when I asked about sending the pipes in this fall so I wouldn't have so much down time during a short MN riding season and she then told me if I wanted to "argue" with her, my pipes might just take a little longer getting back to me... Sounds like a threat to me.

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH HACKER!!!!
 

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custom exhaust companies

man its scary to buy custom exhaust pipes. you spend big money on these pipes and when you have issues they don't get resolved. these companies that mess us over on service and poor quality should be identfied on these forums without these forums disappearing. can i have a amen... take care of your customers and your company will survive.
 

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Do you remember these emails, Hacker Customs? How come all of a sudden its an "installer" issue, even after YOU yourself looked at the photos I sent you and then gave the following instructions.

1st email to Hacker exhaust(w/ his response first):

> --- On Mon, 3/30/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: M109 Mayhems collector/pipe gap problem
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

Dan: It looks like the front pipe is about a 1/4 longer than the rear., Carefully cut the 1/4 off the front pipe. The Mayhems are really a custom pipe that we build in very small numbers, so installation is not as smooth as a normal production pipe would be, but they can be installed. I had the shop supervisor pull the fixture and clearly mark where the pipes have to be cut.
FYI: you can use black RTV sealant which becomes nearly invisable on a black pipe.
Ronnie

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:14:31 -0700 (PDT), dgk1979 wrote

Hi Ronnie,

The first 3 pictures are from my M109 with the black ceramic mayhems. You can see that the heat shield is a little shorter than the rear cylinder head pipe. The last picture is off of a chrome set of Mayhems from another 109 owner from a message forum, who just received his set recently and also had an install issue.

Thanks for your help in looking into this issue. I havent had the bike off the jack yet, but got to start it once and I can tell you my neighbors are gonna like me a little bit less now.

Thanks again, look forward to talking to you soon.

[email protected]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd email correspondence to Hacker:

Monday, March 30, 2009 3:04 PM
From:
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts

To:
[email protected]

Dan: Yes, go ahead and CAREFULLY cut the pipe that goes to the front cylinder, that is the problem, I authorized you to do this, so warranty will not be an issue. The Suzuki Mayhem has 2.000 tubes going over the collector, the rest of our Mayhem line, the pipes are 1 3/4 and slide nside the collector, cutting is not near as critical on the others as it is on the Suzuki. The kid who does our cutting was not aware of the critical cuts needed on the M109.
Ronnie

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT), dgk1979 wrote

Thanks for the response Ronnie. I just have a few questions/concerns before I cut the pipe as you suggested.

When you say to cut 1/4" off of the "front pipe" , do you mean the pipe coming from the Front cylinder, or the pipe in the front of the picture as one would look at the photo.

Also, if I do cut 1/4" off of one of the pipes, and it doesn't end up being the correct solution to fix the gap issue, I just want to make sure that the warranty on this exhaust system won't be voided. If for some reason this doesn't fix the gap, what would be the next course of action? Are you able to send out a different set of Black mayhems in exchange for the ones I have?

Hopefully this will solve the issue at hand.

Thanks for your help, talk to you soon.

[email protected]
 

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Nce one Dino!... I bet ole Ronny forgot he had told both of us that it was THEIR screw-up. At least you got it in writing.
 

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I am so glad I am a member of this forum. Most every mod I made to my bike resulted from lots of research on this site. So far I have been very pleased with all the mods I have already accomplished with the help & advice from the members.
The last month I've spent considerable time looking at all the pipes available. I was just about to contact Hacker to place an order. I found there pipes to have a unique look that I was looking for. After reading this thread I decided to step back from ordering any component from Hacker.
Thanks to the members who contributed to this thread !!! :bow:
 

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I'm glad we could help one member save some hard earned money. There are a lot of great options for M109 exhaust, Hacker just isn't one of them...
 

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I'm glad we could help one member save some hard earned money. There are a lot of great options for M109 exhaust, Hacker just isn't one of them...
I'm perfectly happy with my V&H mass produced exhaust system :bigthumbsup:
 

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Wow, what a bunch of total bullchit here. Hacker is not worried about negative comments yet in his zest to defend his pipes he chooses to come on this board and insult all the people who bought this pipe. Now that's some good business sense there. Seems there are enough people who have had issue with your almost " custom 109 pipe" If it is so custom why does it need finesse to install. Is that not a kind way of saying you may have missed the mark on this custom pipe...No need to answer I can see the pic just fine.

Ronnie, you say that the kid...Did not know about the critical cut necessary for the hacker 109 pipe. Well, that is on you and should be corrected by you not by the purchaser being told, " go ahead and cut it and I will honor the warranty. So, I guess your answer is the installer/owner's are all to blame and your pipe is perfect. Funny enough there are many pipes available for this bike and no one has had as many issues as this pipes has lately.

You want to defend your product...Well, that's easy too. Step up and make it right. RTV, cutting a brand new pipe to fit after it leaves your business are really not the buyers problem and should not be needed when someone spends their hard earned dollars on your product.

Lastly, seems you forgot that if you choose to come on the site to defend your product and take shots at your customers while doing so, you should always try and remember that people save emails and it seems your own words portray quite a different story then you are telling here. I've said this before, I personally like my fairy tales to start with "once uopn a time" and to end with " they all live happily ever after" I wonder if your customers seem happy with you?

Don't worry about any responses to my rant Ronnie. I would not buy anything from you after this mess YOU created. Hopfully no one else will either.
 

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Its really unfortunate. I normally don't like to give negative reviews unless something is very bad, and I always give someone the chance to resolve a problem. I didn't even start any of these threads.

These pipes sound great, could look a little better where the pipes meet the collector (I got creative and made it look somewhat better), and Hacker Exhaust did in fact try to rectify the situation by sending a new front pipe (in my case, but it didnt solve the issue).

However, coming on a message board and being condescending towards your customers is where I have draw a line (your emails could be a little more earnest as well). I even let it slide when you screened my phone number and let it go to your machine, and then I called back from a hotel landline and you answered right away (on two seperate occasions). I'm thinking it wasn't a coincidence. Had you been somewhat tactful and tried to sincerely help your customers who are having issues with your product they just spent $700 bucks on, I think this thread would have gone a much different direction, Hacker Customs.

I would have much preferred to recommend these pipes to the members of this board. It isn't even the install problem so much as the unpleasant customer service received, both from yourself and your customer service rep. I wasn't threatened at all, but I had to pony up money out of my own pocket to return pipes that Hacker admitted weren't cut correctly in his shop. It may be your policy, but is a poor one. I seriously suggest a customer service makeover if you'd like to see your business expand as opposed to contract.

Everything counts, especially the way you handle a problem like some of us are having. Coming here and blaming the customers is the wrong way to handle things. Regardless of who is at fault, it would have been in your best interest to sincerely help correct the problem, regardless of how much time it took.

It takes a lot of hard work to earn someone's business, but it takes one upset customer to make sure everyone he knows steers clear of a bad one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
fixing a problem

I posted what I thought was important installation info on this forum. When I see pictures of our exhaust that are completely incorrectly installed and could be a danger to the rider, then Yeah I m goin to say something.
Sorry if pissed of you riders off by logging on here
I do not hang out on any forums, I only log on and post to pass along info only. THIS IS KIND OF IMPORTANT INFO DON'T YOU THINK?

The riders who have the Mayhem, please check to make sure it is installed properly. If you need instructions please contact us. I also welcome any Rider with the Mayhem exhaust on, to come by and have me check it out.

Ronnie Hacker
 
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