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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Got on my bike today and shifted to 2nd but could not shift into 3rd. Got off bike and did not see anything out of line. Got back on and tried again and still would not shift into 3rd. Noticed after shifting into 2nd that shifter stayed up so I pushed it down and then it shifted into 3rd, pushed it back down again and shifted into 4th and so on. When downshifting, I had to again take out the slack each time before I could downshift. It shifted fine when I did that. I felt that maybe a spring had come off. I got home and took off the cover and did not see a place for a spring. Consulted the service manual and it showed a gearshift shaft return spring inside the gearshift housing cover on the gearshift shaft.

I have two questions.

1. Is difficult to take the cover off to get to the gearshift spring?

2. Is it difficult to replace the spring?

I could be lucky and the spring has just slipped off the gearshift shaft.

If you have a manual the gearshift cover is on page 3-46 Engine and the gearshift return spring is on page 3-52 Engine.

I checked and the gearshift bar is not hitting anything on the bottom of the engine creating a bind thus preventing shifting.

Comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Doc
 

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Undercover operation

It's not likely that the return spring has broken or come off. It's pretty hefty, and has nowhere to go when the cover is on. You can see the insides in my how to "CBRs shift fix". I would suspect the linkage, especially the front shaft the shifter rides on. These are steel to steel, with no lube except what was there from the factory unless you've taken it apart and lubed it. It can get rusty and gummy.
You'll need to loosen the 2 14 mm bolts that hold the peg bracket to the frame to get at the circlip on the back (replace this(any hardware store) with a new one, they weaken and fall off after being stretched to get off), to get the shifter off the shaft stud. Clean it off, use emery cloth to smooth it and the inside of the shifter, and lube it with marine axle grease.
I'm sure you know the shift mechanism is a "ratchet" type, so it has to return to get into the next gear.
http://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89387
 

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It's not likely that the return spring has broken or come off.
I would suspect the linkage, especially the front shaft the shifter rides on.
Clean it off, use emery cloth to smooth it and the inside of the shifter, and lube it with marine axle grease.
:agree:
That was a known problem with the VTX Retro models (I had one). As a consequence, I have been very dilligent about keeping the 109's shift linkage lubed really good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's not likely that the return spring has broken or come off. It's pretty hefty, and has nowhere to go when the cover is on. You can see the insides in my how to "CBRs shift fix". I would suspect the linkage, especially the front shaft the shifter rides on. These are steel to steel, with no lube except what was there from the factory unless you've taken it apart and lubed it. It can get rusty and gummy.
You'll need to loosen the 2 14 mm bolts that hold the peg bracket to the frame to get at the circlip on the back (replace this(any hardware store) with a new one, they weaken and fall off after being stretched to get off), to get the shifter off the shaft stud. Clean it off, use emery cloth to smooth it and the inside of the shifter, and lube it with marine axle grease.
I'm sure you know the shift mechanism is a "ratchet" type, so it has to return to get into the next gear.
http://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89387
Thank you for the suggestion, I will try it, hope it works.

Doc
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's not likely that the return spring has broken or come off. It's pretty hefty, and has nowhere to go when the cover is on. You can see the insides in my how to "CBRs shift fix". I would suspect the linkage, especially the front shaft the shifter rides on. These are steel to steel, with no lube except what was there from the factory unless you've taken it apart and lubed it. It can get rusty and gummy.
You'll need to loosen the 2 14 mm bolts that hold the peg bracket to the frame to get at the circlip on the back (replace this(any hardware store) with a new one, they weaken and fall off after being stretched to get off), to get the shifter off the shaft stud. Clean it off, use emery cloth to smooth it and the inside of the shifter, and lube it with marine axle grease.
I'm sure you know the shift mechanism is a "ratchet" type, so it has to return to get into the next gear.
http://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89387
When I unhooked the linkage to the gearshift shaft and rotated it with my fingers and let go it rotated back. It would not rotate back if the return spring was broken. I will remove the linkage tomorrow and polish it and lube it with white lithium grease. I will let you know.

Thanks,

Doc
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When I unhooked the linkage to the gearshift shaft and rotated it with my fingers and let go it rotated back. It would not rotate back if the return spring was broken. I will remove the linkage tomorrow and polish it and lube it with white lithium grease. I will let you know.

Thanks,

Doc
I have polished the steel to steel connection with fine emery cloth and lubed it and lubed the other too linkages inside the boots and while it is somewhat resetting, it is not doing it with enough force to reset and I have to push the gearshift shaft down with my foot before I can toe up to change gears. I will either have to pull the gear shift cover off and take a look or take it to the dealer. Oh what a troubled soul I am.

doc
 

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Strange problem

If you've never had this cover off before, it's hard to imagine what could be the problem except the outside linkage, which is exposed to water and dirt. Inside, everything is bathed in oil.
The good new is this (the ratchet/return action) is a totally seperate function from the transmission. By this I mean, even if the shift drum didn't turn, the ratchet mechanism would still return to it's rest position.
You mentioned the arm returned when you turned it by hand, so this indicates to me that all is well inside the case.
Perhaps the linkage is binding somewhere else, did you disconnect it totally and see if it moves freely? One of the clevis joints could be binding.
If it moves freely in your hands, taking off the outer case is pretty easy. 5 bolts all the same length, gasket will be good to reinstall. It should be obvious if any thing is damaged, metal shards, shaft galling, broken bearing. I can't imagine how it could be damaged unless it was assembled with a missing washer or damaged bearing. It's not like it rotating at 7000 rpm, it just moves back and forth less than an inch each time you shift.
Read my how to and look at the drawing in the manual to reassemble correctly. The 2 thin washers must go in the right places, ie, first and last on the shaft.
Let us know.
 

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Non returning gear shift

This happened to me - check out the detent cam spring

I had the Factory Pro replacement detent cam (and spring) fitted during a service at the shop and the problem dissappeared

I wasn't charged for additional parts so I assume that the new detent cam spring fixed it

I haven't checked for sure if that could have been the cause - but it may be worth a look

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·


The ends on my gearshift shaft return spring does not fit tight around the bolt like yours does. Mine are very loose. I pinched it and pulled it apart and it is spongy to the feel. I think this is one of the problems.



Look at how tight this is from the manual.

Gearshift shaft return spring

Mine has 3/8 inch on either side of the bolt the prongs bracket.

Gearshift shaft

Now look at the spring. The prongs are next to each other. Not mine. When I replace it, I hope it cures the problem.

Now the other problem. It would not start. Thought it was the battery, Ordered one with the same specks as the OEM and it still will not start.

Just my luck. It may be the starter, rectifier, ground wire, ignition relay or who knows what. I am just going to haul it to the shop and tell them to fix it. But don't put in a battery. I have an extra one now.

Whew,

Frustration reigns

I will let you guys know. It may help someone else in the future. I just want it fixed by Thanksgiving so I can take it to my wife's mother's house in NC.

Doc
 

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Bad spring

It appears you do have a bad return spring after all! I never would have guessed that, but your description of it confirms it. Perhaps it's cracked internally, or was tempered incorrectly, but it should be very stiff to open. It's quite a strong spring, strange your's is so weak.
A new one will fix that.
As far as not starting, perhaps it's something simple like your side stand down, or kill switch. What is it doing exactly? Not turning over, turning over but not firing?
You're probably a little upset about your shifting, perhaps when that's fixed you can attack the starting issue more methodically. Maybe you've already taken it to the shop, I've missed a few days reading working on my yard...........I hate bricks and roots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It appears you do have a bad return spring after all! I never would have guessed that, but your description of it confirms it. Perhaps it's cracked internally, or was tempered incorrectly, but it should be very stiff to open. It's quite a strong spring, strange your's is so weak.
A new one will fix that.
As far as not starting, perhaps it's something simple like your side stand down, or kill switch. What is it doing exactly? Not turning over, turning over but not firing?
You're probably a little upset about your shifting, perhaps when that's fixed you can attack the starting issue more methodically. Maybe you've already taken it to the shop, I've missed a few days reading working on my yard...........I hate bricks and roots.
When I took it in he said it still sounds like your batter and hooked up on off the workbench and it started just fine. He said most new batteries do not come fully charged and when they put in a new battery they change it overnight even if new. He put it on a slow change overnight and said it is fine now. He will fix the gearshift shaft return spring. Mine was spongy. He also noticed a coolant leak so he will trace that, but the last time all I had to do was tighten the clamps. Anyway it is not as bad as I thought.

I will post a video of the spring when I get it back to show how loose it became.

Your pictures helped greatly, thanks.

Doc
 
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