[[email protected]]

Here's an $800 lesson I learned today. I've been contemplating installing a 2 into 1 on my 2019 but really wasn't sure. I already had a 2 into 2 from Roadhouse, but going by the post and research I've done I decided to get a Hard Krome Velocity Pro 2 into 1 with black ceramic coating. Once installed I took it for a test ride.Now most if not all research I've done mentioned that you'll gain mid but loose top end. Well let me tell you my experience...Mid range, lost the strong pull. I accelerated but it was nothing to rave about. It accelerated like a week 1500. I was going forward but gently. Gone was the "oh ****!" pull that I experienced with Road house. And I tried that in all the gears. First gear was the only gear that pulled strong but that's it. And with my Roadhouse first gear felt like the front wheel was gonna come off the ground. Now my bike pulled around 3000rpm and then I feel a stronger pull around 4500rpm to redline. The 2 into 1 pulled gently and when I reached 4500rpm there was no sudden surge of power. It was like accelerating all the way to redline just like a lame 1500. So to be sure, I switched my Roadhouse back and took it for another ride. It was like night and day. It pulled a hell of a lot stronger on all gears then the 2 into 1. Everything I read about how a 2 into 1 increases mid is nothing but bull. At least for my bike. But one thing I read said that it does smooth out the bike, and that it did. But once again, nothing to brag about. I'd rather live with a beast of a machine that vibrated but pulled like a freight train than a smooth riding bike lacking in power. My2 cents. And yes I am selling the Hard Krome 2 into 1 if anyone is interested. $600 plus shipping. Email me [email protected]

 

[Zoom]

It's really odd that you noticed that much difference. In my experience with modified stock, 2-2, 2-1, and 2-2 with crossover I couldn't tell much performance difference with any of them, at least not enough to make me go "holy crap". Maybe because I changed my intakes for better flowing ones early made the difference, not sure. About the only thing I've noticed with any of them is different exhaust tone.

When I added the Cobra Power Pro Black I could tell a difference in overall smoothness and performance, but even then not enough to say it was a remarkable difference.

 

[Bering_C_Sparky]

What are you using for Fuel Management?
Did you have the bike tuned for the 2 into 1 exhaust when you put it on?
I am guessing you did not, and that is the problem.
There is nothing wrong with the velocity pro exhaust, I have one (as well as many other exhaust).
With a proper tune any exhaust out there for the M109R will run great.

BCS

 

[meierjn]

I've never heard of this Roadhouse exhaust. Does anyone have a pic or a link they could share?

 

[Metalman]

Why are the shorter versions of the Hard Krome Velocity Pro 2 into 1 more expensive than the longer versions?

 

[thevili]

Why are the shorter versions of the Hard Krome Velocity Pro 2 into 1 more expensive than the longer versions?

Higher demand? Or maybe also patent fees to the originator? I forgot his name...

 

[JUDAH-9]

My 08' model M109R had a RAW PERFORMANCE exhaust on when I purchased it from a member here, back in 2012. I sold it, and replaced it with a VPR SHORT RACE exhaust, and had it slightly customized (esthetically). The long version VP exaust was on my 14' model when I purchased it with only 1,306 miles on it. I sold it, and replaced it with a new, customized VPR SHORT RACE exhaust, and had it slightly customized as well...because I prefer the short exhausts over the full length. In addition, I found that the short exhausts produce a more profound and deep rumble. Now, I'm not sure if that has to do with the shorter exhaust end cap being closer to my head. I tried doing a comparison one day, by starting each bike, and literally standing at the end cap of each one to see if there was any difference in tone/depth/sound. My opinion was that the shorter exhaust had a much deeper rumble to it. And based on my experiences, I feel as if the shorter exhausts I now have produce a bit more power than the full length versions I had. I can't prove it with numbers, graphs, or stats though. So, my assertions are primarily based on my familiarity with my bikes, combined with my seat of the pants experiences. One thing I definitely noticed is...my 07' model with the Shorty SideBurner exhaust installed has more punch and grab upon any level of throttle twist, compared to that of the VPR SHORT RACE exhausts installed on my 08' and 14' model M109Rs...and the Shorty SideBurner is clearly louder and deeper sounding than them as well.

 

[JUDAH-9]

Why are the shorter versions of the Hard Krome Velocity Pro 2 into 1 more expensive than the longer versions?

That's a very good quesiton Metalman. For those that may not know, the current Hard Krome Velocity Pro exhaust was derived from an original exhaust called the Road Burner. I think it was designed by a different company back then, and Hard Krome either bought that company out, or simply changed the company's name to Hard Krome. I'm not 100% sure about that how it all went down, but it was something along those lines. After acquiring the rights to the Road Burner exhaust, an announcement was made that the Road Burner would no longer be produced after a certain date. It was then replaced with what is now called the Full Length Hard Krome Velocity Pro Exhaust. Fast forward a bit, one of our members (ICEBOX) developed the most amazing and bad*** modification for the exhaust, in which he shortened the exhaust by about 12.5" to 13" and he was getting requests tons of members of this Forum to have that modification performed on their Full Length Hard Krome Velocity Pro and SideBurner exhausts. In fact, he first performed the modification on the SideBurner exhaust, and I was a HUGE SUCCESS. Hard Krome became aware that ICEBOX had produced this great modification to their exhaust, because tons of M109R owners were buying both the SideBurner and Velocity Pro exhausts, and having them shipped directly to ICEBOX. Hard Krome then decided to steal ICEBOX's modification concept, incorporate it into their own production model, patend the design, and now they are selling them like crazy. As for the difference in cost, my belief is that it has to do with the costs associated with how manufacturing costs are affected by changes made to an original design. Having had all four exhausts...Full Length SideBurner, Shorty SideBurner, Full Length Velocity Pro, and VPR Short Race exhausts, I know for sure Muffler, Header Pipes, and Mounting Brackets are designed differently on the VPR Short Race exhaust than on the Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust. Therein may lie the difference you see in the costs between the two.

 

[StitchsLoft]

Here's an $800 lesson I learned today. I've been contemplating installing a 2 into 1 on my 2019 but really wasn't sure. I already had a 2 into 2 from Roadhouse, but going by the post and research I've done I decided to get a Hard Krome Velocity Pro 2 into 1 with black ceramic coating. Once installed I took it for a test ride.Now most if not all research I've done mentioned that you'll gain mid but loose top end. Well let me tell you my experience...Mid range, lost the strong pull. I accelerated but it was nothing to rave about. It accelerated like a week 1500. I was going forward but gently. Gone was the "oh ****!" pull that I experienced with Road house. And I tried that in all the gears. First gear was the only gear that pulled strong but that's it. And with my Roadhouse first gear felt like the front wheel was gonna come off the ground. Now my bike pulled around 3000rpm and then I feel a stronger pull around 4500rpm to redline. The 2 into 1 pulled gently and when I reached 4500rpm there was no sudden surge of power. It was like accelerating all the way to redline just like a lame 1500. So to be sure, I switched my Roadhouse back and took it for another ride. It was like night and day. It pulled a hell of a lot stronger on all gears then the 2 into 1. Everything I read about how a 2 into 1 increases mid is nothing but bull. At least for my bike. But one thing I read said that it does smooth out the bike, and that it did. But once again, nothing to brag about. I'd rather live with a beast of a machine that vibrated but pulled like a freight train than a smooth riding bike lacking in power. My2 cents. And yes I am selling the Hard Krome 2 into 1 if anyone is interested. $600 plus shipping. Email me [email protected]

What are you using for Fuel Management?
Did you have the bike tuned for the 2 into 1 exhaust when you put it on?
I am guessing you did not, and that is the problem.
There is nothing wrong with the velocity pro exhaust, I have one (as well as many other exhaust).
With a proper tune any exhaust out there for the M109R will run great.

BCS

I have one and I 100% agree with Sparky, if you didn't install fuel tuner and then tune it, thats the bike NOT the pipe, you MUST get fuel management and if you that worried about more then get Dyno tune but there is nothing wrong with that pipe! I only PAID $500 NEW for mine...

 

[JUDAH-9]

I have one and I 100% agree with Sparky, if you didn't install fuel tuner and then tune it, thats the bike NOT the pipe, you MUST get fuel management and if you that worried about more then get Dyno tune but there is nothing wrong with that pipe! I only PAID $500 NEW for mine...

I have not experienced it myself, but many members here have stated...when you install an aftermarket exhaust only, you don't have to add a Fuel Management System/Device...and that it only becomes necessary once you've added both an aftermarket exhaust and aftermarket air intakes. Personally, I had always added both at the same time, because I was looking for performance improvements. Now, I'm on to the best thing out there...BCS's New FULL ECU FLASH. That masterpiece he has created is breathtakingly-amazing, and utterly-transformational!!! :clap2: :drool: :bigthumbsup: :a18: :bigthumbsup: :drool: :clap2:

 

[Bering_C_Sparky]

many members here have stated...when you install an aftermarket exhaust only, you don't have to add a Fuel Management System/Device...and that it only becomes necessary once you've added both an aftermarket exhaust and aftermarket air intakes.

This is similar to some saying you can put a 280 on a stock rim......"Can" you do it?......sure. "Should" you do it......No. :doorag:
The stock ECU fuel tuning is lean by design, it has to be because the stock exhaust has a catalytic converter so the fuel is tuned lean near stochiometric to meet EPA regulations.
Once the stock exhaust is replaced with an aftermarket exhaust that has no catalytic converter, the fuel can then be tuned richer and the bike will perform much better. (For track purposes only of course)

BCS

 

[thevili]

This is similar to some saying you can put a 280 on a stock rim......"Can" you do it?......sure. "Should" you do it......No. :doorag:
The stock ECU fuel tuning is lean by design, it has to be because the stock exhaust has a catalytic converter so the fuel is tuned lean near stochiometric to meet EPA regulations.
Once the stock exhaust is replaced with an aftermarket exhaust that has no catalytic converter, the fuel can then be tuned richer and the bike will perform much better. (For track purposes only of course)

BCS

Sparky,
utill now, I was then mistakenly believing that OEM
ECU would be able to compensate for the new exhaust and
correct the fuel tuning to meet Suzukis preprogrammed levels?

 

[JUDAH-9]

E

This is similar to some saying you can put a 280 on a stock rim......"Can" you do it?......sure. "Should" you do it......No. :doorag:
The stock ECU fuel tuning is lean by design, it has to be because the stock exhaust has a catalytic converter so the fuel is tuned lean near stochiometric to meet EPA regulations.
Once the stock exhaust is replaced with an aftermarket exhaust that has no catalytic converter, the fuel can then be tuned richer and the bike will perform much better. (For track purposes only of course)

BCS

Thank you so much Charles, for your clarification on this matter. No one has ever explained it like that on this Forum, as far as I know. Based on what was the "running belief" here, I thought the ECU was capable of managing the system, if the only change was adding an aftermarket exhaust. I now clearly understand why it's absolutely necessary to enrich the fuel, with the addition of an aftermarket exhaust. Better yet, I understand the advantages of the fuel being tuned richer "For Track Purposes Only." You have totally transformed my mind, and I thank you for it.😁👍🏽💥🏆💥👍🏽😁

 

[Camillion]

I picked up an 06 with 14K miles and completely stock.
Has incredible torque throughout RPM range.
I considered upgrading with intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and ECU flash.
Then I discovered that the previous owner had drilled out the small exit holes at the end of the pipes.
Sounds great and surprised that just opening up the holes made such a difference.
Definitely sounds different than unmodified factory pipes.
I'm quite satisfied with the performance so I'll keep it as it is.
Does this really make a difference or am I just full of it?

 

[JUDAH-9]

I did that same stock exhaust mod to my 06’ model M109R several years ago, and for sure it doesn’t even come close to having a good set of aftermarket Air Intakes, a good 2 into 1 exhaust, and a FULL ECU FLASH added to the 9. Respectfully, I would say you are definitely wrong. Thinking your stock setup with holes drilled into the muffler(s) of the exhaust is equivalent to the performance and sound of the aforementioned aftermarket setup is very inaccurate. If you just don’t want to spend the money for aftermarket upgrades, that’s one thing...and totally understandable, because they’re not cheap. But, there’s simply no comparison between the two different setups, in terms of performance and exhaust sound/note.

 

[cbxer55]

I have a 2-into-1 Cobra on mine, and would never ever put a 2-into-2 back on it. Just my preference. And as was said, I did the air cleaners long before I did the exhaust. And when I finally did the exhaust, I did a fuel tuner at the same time. I do not feel, after doing the swap, that I lost anything power wise. Maybe the low end may be a tad weaker, but that would be due mainly to losing the computer controlled exhaust throttle. That is intended to increase low end power. My bike, even with a ten inch rim and a 280, still spins the tire easily, and still gets that lovely sideways movement when shifting from first-to-second and nailing it. Love that!

Also, there are two that I know of, guys on here that do ECU flashes. One has already posted here, BCS. I cannot recall the other guys handle, but someone here will post that. That will really wake your bike up.

 

[Psycho1000R]

This is the worst for sale ad I've ever read ����

 

[JUDAH-9]

This is the worst for sale ad I've ever read ����

I sort of agree with you Psycho, as the discussion has evolved into something other than the sale of his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust. Moreover, the reason I stated "I sort of agree with you" has to do with the fact that his thread was not listed under the WTB/4-Sale Message Board, as perhaps it should have been...if that was ultimately his goal/objective. As well, the title of his post made no mention of anything being for sale. He should have created two different posts, on two different message boards...one, to share his thoughts and experiences that led him to believe his stock exhaust was better than his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust, and just how disappointed he was in the performance of the Velocity Pro Exhaust., The second one, to post his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust up for sale. Furthermore, his criticism of his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust seems a bit counterproductive to his decision to sell it to another member of this Forum. My first thought was, why then would anyone else want that exhaust after reading how badly it performed for him? Personally, I think the Full Length Velocity Pro is a very good exhaust. I sold mine simply because I prefer the short exhaust look on all of my 9s.

 

[thevili]

I sort of agree with you Psycho, as the discussion has evolved into something other than the sale of his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust. Moreover, the reason I stated "I sort of agree with you" has to do with the fact at thhis thread was not listed under the WTB/4-Sale Message Board, as perhaps it should have been...if that was ultimately his goal/objective. As well, the title of his post made no mention of anything being for sale. He should have created two different posts, on two different message boards...one, to share his thoughts and experiences that led him to believe his stock exhaust was better than his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust, and just how disappointed he was in the performance of the Velocity Pro Exhaust., The second one, to post his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust up for sale. Furthermore, his criticism of his Full Length Velocity Pro exhaust seems a bit counterproductive to his decision to sell it to another member of this Forum. My first thought was, why then would anyone else want that exhaust after reading how badly it performed for him? Personally, I think the Full Length Velocity Pro is a very good exhaust. I sold mine simply because I prefer the short exhaust look on all of my 9s.

OP did post it there 6 days ago as well...:
https://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350072&p=4008284&viewfull=1#post4008284

 

[JUDAH-9]

OP did post it there 6 days ago as well...:
https://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350072&p=4008284&viewfull=1#post4008284

Well, in that case, I guess this may not be the worst 4-Sale post I've ever seen...because it was never intended to be one, from the onset. :dontknow: