M109 Rider Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, got tired of having the intermittent clutch shudder so pulled off the cover to find the plates nearly bone dry. The deeper into the clutch the dryer the plates were. I checked the wavy washer as well as other plates, all were perfect and like new. Also all of the clutch plates were lined up, the last one was not offset...so my issue is lack of oil. Not sure what to do, the dealer would probably replace the plates, but real issue is no lubrication. My bike is an 08 with 3200 miles....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,722 Posts
I have an 08 and at 5400 miles, and knock on wood no problems, however Im using motul 5100 semi syn. oil 10-40 its seems to me that people using straight syn. oil 20-50 seems to have the issues, a thought may be of the thicker oil not making it into the areas of the clutch plates. I know it sounds stupid, but, it is a wet type clutch, but, i'm thinking like tight oil jurnals on a engine, that a manufacture says only to use 5-20 oil only. sorry, for the 1st grade spelling:doorag:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
547 Posts
Well, got tired of having the intermittent clutch shudder so pulled off the cover to find the plates nearly bone dry. The deeper into the clutch the dryer the plates were. I checked the wavy washer as well as other plates, all were perfect and like new. Also all of the clutch plates were lined up, the last one was not offset...so my issue is lack of oil. Not sure what to do, the dealer would probably replace the plates, but real issue is no lubrication. My bike is an 08 with 3200 miles....
I believe ther are instructions on this board on drilling out the housing to allow more oil in. You might do a search and see what you come up with. I am having the same issue but will probably wait unitil the end of riding season to work on mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
I am totally convinced the oiling is an issue, however,that is just part of it. I have the NEW (thicker/narower) wave washer and seat installed(plus oil soaked plates) on an 11,000 mile clutch. It is working fine so far.
The shudder was very bad before. Now Gone.
My old wave washer became totally flat!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,737 Posts
I think the wave washer is part of the problem, and lack of oil is the other part.
I don't have the new wave washer in yet, and mine is pretty bad. However I was heading out on a 1,200km ride and wanted to make sure the oil was good and full. I ended up putting just a little more than needed in there. First time I've done that.
Funny thing was, I didn't have one problem the entire trip. After getting back and riding around for another 400 km's or so, it started here an there again.
When I get the new washer in, I plan to fill my oil where I usually do and see what happens.
Keep your oil full, and that may help some of you guys until you replace the washer as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
I think the wave washer is part of the problem, and lack of oil is the other part.
I don't have the new wave washer in yet, and mine is pretty bad. However I was heading out on a 1,200km ride and wanted to make sure the oil was good and full. I ended up putting just a little more than needed in there. First time I've done that.
Funny thing was, I didn't have one problem the entire trip. After getting back and riding around for another 400 km's or so, it started here an there again.
When I get the new washer in, I plan to fill my oil where I usually do and see what happens.
Keep your oil full, and that may help some of you guys until you replace the washer as well.
I believe this too:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:
Shudder vs puking
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
I am totally convinced the oiling is an issue, however,that is just part of it. I have the NEW (thicker/narower) wave washer and seat installed(plus oil soaked plates) on an 11,000 mile clutch. It is working fine so far.
The shudder was very bad before. Now Gone.
My old wave washer became totally flat!
Do you have the new Wave Washer Part #?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
I am totally convinced the oiling is an issue, however,that is just part of it. I have the NEW (thicker/narower) wave washer and seat installed(plus oil soaked plates) on an 11,000 mile clutch. It is working fine so far.
The shudder was very bad before. Now Gone.
My old wave washer became totally flat!
Jason, did the dealership end up covering that?
 
G

·
So far at 1200 mi since adding it, the limmited slip additive is kepping the shudders away. I think, once this stuff soaks into the fiber plates, it keeps the clutch from drying out. I think this also proves that it's a lubrication problem.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,218 Posts
So far at 1200 mi since adding it, the limmited slip additive is kepping the shudders away. I think, once this stuff soaks into the fiber plates, it keeps the clutch from drying out. I think this also proves that it's a lubrication problem.
I agree that it is a lubrication problem. I had the shudder in the winter when the bike was cold, but yet too have a prob in the warmer weather- or warmed up bike during the cold season.

:agree:Makes sense for me. Cold=thick oil. Thick oil = neglected small passages such as the dinky holes leading into the clutch basket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had ordered wavy washers and plates to be safe in case I needed them, but found the originals were perfect condition. Could not believe how dry everything was....going to try an additive as well. I have a friend that has the same issues with his bike. Has to soak plates....good for 700-800 miles and shudder comes back...he has his plates replaced twice by dealers under warranty...so it definitely is an lubricating issue and not a clutch issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
I have 2700 miles on mine and no problems what so ever. Running Mobil 1 synthetic, 20w50 since 1000 miles. Does it just affect some bikes and not others?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
547 Posts
I have 2700 miles on mine and no problems what so ever. Running Mobil 1 synthetic, 20w50 since 1000 miles. Does it just affect some bikes and not others?
Yes it affects some and not others. Every since I switched to Mobile 1 - 20W50 I have had 10 times as much shudder. So with that said, I will be going back to a thinner oil and also drilling out my lubrication holes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
I find this clutch shudder thing very interesting.We have an 08 M109 and have done 36000 kms without any clutch problem. Are the guys having a problem using there bikes very often, or are they living in colder areas. Maybe the plates are drying out while the bikes are not being used or the colder temperatures are not allowing the oil to heat up enough to do it's job. Just a thought. ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Yes it affects some and not others. Every since I switched to Mobile 1 - 20W50 I have had 10 times as much shudder. So with that said, I will be going back to a thinner oil and also drilling out my lubrication holes.
If don't mind posting some pics of when you drill out your holes, like to see how to do this. My shudder really started shortly aftly switching to Mobile 1 around 800 miles or so. I switched back to regular went away for 2-3 weeks and started coming back. Finally opened up the clutch cover to see what the reason was...lack of oil on the plates....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
I had 15000 shudderless km with 10-40, switched to 20-50 full synthetic and it started shuddering when cold right away. 3000 km later it just keeps getting worse. Definitly going back to thinner oil
 

·
Radio Active Member
2007 Candy Sonoma Red
Joined
·
22,860 Posts
Keep in mind the oil comes in through the center push rod in the clutch, then out through the clutch basket. Drilling holes in the basket should just let the oil out faster and not keep it on the plates more. Though I do recall Suzuki added more holes in the later models, and maybe that is creating some of the issues.

Mine has never shuddered and I run 20w-50 Mobil 1 V-twin synthetic. I do hold the clutch in at stop lights and signs, and I think that helps get more oil between the plates.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
I find this clutch shudder thing very interesting.We have an 08 M109 and have done 36000 kms without any clutch problem. Are the guys having a problem using there bikes very often, or are they living in colder areas. Maybe the plates are drying out while the bikes are not being used or the colder temperatures are not allowing the oil to heat up enough to do it's job. Just a thought. ???
Well it's been 100+ for the last month, I ride daily, I allways let my bike idle for several minutes and it allways shudders if I don't lean it over to the right side for about 30 sec. I have tried 4 different oils in the last 3 month's. :dontknow::cus::cus::cus::cus::cus: Clutch shuddering :cus::cus::cus::cus: And SUZ said there's no problems with there clutch, that's :swear::swear:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Keep in mind the oil comes in through the center push rod in the clutch, then out through the clutch basket. Drilling holes in the basket should just let the oil out faster and not keep it on the plates more. Though I do recall Suzuki added more holes in the later models, and maybe that is creating some of the issues.
Isn't this also the reason why the outter clutch plate is offset from the rest? to help keep the oil in the clutch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,918 Posts
Keep in mind the oil comes in through the center push rod in the clutch, then out through the clutch basket. Drilling holes in the basket should just let the oil out faster and not keep it on the plates more. Though I do recall Suzuki added more holes in the later models, and maybe that is creating some of the issues.

Mine has never shuddered and I run 20w-50 Mobil 1 V-twin synthetic. I do hold the clutch in at stop lights and signs, and I think that helps get more oil between the plates.
:agree:keep more oil in the basket that seems to be the key then you could put 4qt of oil in your bike.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top