M109 Rider Forums banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was running 10w-40 Amsoil exclusively and pretty much the only time I ever experienced clutch shudder was if I tried to take off when the engine was cold, and very rarely when it was warmed up. Then I had the incident in August with my fuel manager that caused my fuel injectors to pump raw fuel through my engine and contaminated my oil. Because I like to change my oil and filter late in the fall just before I put the bike up for winter, I decided to use a less expensive conventional oil (Rotella 15w-40) to replace the contaminated oil until I was ready to put in the Amsoil for the winter. Since I've been running the Rotella I've noticed I get shudder almost all the time now, even when it's hot. The only way I can avoid it is by letting the clutch lever out veeeerrryyyy slowly and keeping the RPMs at, or just above idle when I take off. Trying to take off any other way results in bucking like a bronco. I'm wondering if when I drain this oil and go back to the Amsoil if I shouldn't go with the 20W-50 instead of the 10w-40? Since the concensus seems to be that it's an oiling issue that causes the shudder, the thicker oil SHOULD cling better to the clutch surfaces and therefore I SHOULD have less shudder. Of course, this is only a theory of mine. Whether or not it will actually work, who knows? Have any of you guys experienced less clutch shudder by moving up to a thicker oil?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
When I rebuilt my clutch, I also switched from 10/40 to 20w50. Clutch is smooth as silk.

Only time will tell about clutch wear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,039 Posts
That is a great question.Mine had clutch shutter with regular oil and synthetic 10w-40.I didn't try 20w-50.I replaced the two updated parts in the clutch and it has not had the clutch shutter at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That is a great question.Mine had clutch shutter with regular oil and synthetic 10w-40.I didn't try 20w-50.I replaced the two updated parts in the clutch and it has not had the clutch shutter at all.
Two updated parts? What are they?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe you had enough fuel in the oil to effect the clutches? :dontknow:
I suppose it's possible, but not likely for a couple of reasons. 1) I had the shudder before the fuel thing, it just wasn't as bad and 2) I didn't ride the bike at all with the contaminated oil. I'd like to hear more about these updated parts. Could these new parts be a real fix for this problem?
 

·
Radio Active Member
2007 Candy Sonoma Red
Joined
·
23,078 Posts
I had something happen a couple weeks ago that makes me think thicker oil is better. I run 20w-50 Mobil 1 V-Twin in mine, or Amsoil in the same weight.

I went to the Skyline Drive near here and traffic was backed up a long ways getting into the park. It was moving just fast enough that you couldn't let it chug along in first, and couldn't stop for any period of time. By the time I had held the clutch for at least 45 minutes the clutch had lost almost all of it's free play and would barely release. I managed to crank the adjuster out and got it to release so I could get it in neutral.

After I got through the traffic the clutch went back to normal. But the next day when leaving the house it shuddered on me really bad multiple times taking off, and it had never done it before. I thought the clutch was gone. But I kept riding it and would hold the clutch in at lights and such, as I normally do, and it hasn't done it since. Either the clutch plates got glazed and fixed themselves, or the plates finally got some oil back on them. And I'm not positive it was the oil of course, but something caused it to fix itself. It still shifts great after at least 400 miles running since it shuddered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I had something happen a couple weeks ago that makes me think thicker oil is better. I run 20w-50 Mobil 1 V-Twin in mine, or Amsoil in the same weight.

I went to the Skyline Drive near here and traffic was backed up a long ways getting into the park. It was moving just fast enough that you couldn't let it chug along in first, and couldn't stop for any period of time. By the time I had held the clutch for at least 45 minutes the clutch had lost almost all of it's free play and would barely release. I managed to crank the adjuster out and got it to release so I could get it in neutral.

After I got through the traffic the clutch went back to normal. But the next day when leaving the house it shuddered on me really bad multiple times taking off, and it had never done it before. I thought the clutch was gone. But I kept riding it and would hold the clutch in at lights and such, as I normally do, and it hasn't done it since. Either the clutch plates got glazed and fixed themselves, or the plates finally got some oil back on them. And I'm not positive it was the oil of course, but something caused it to fix itself. It still shifts great after at least 400 miles running since it shuddered.
So what was it about your situation that led you to believe thicker oil is better?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
Two updated parts? What are they?
The #2 Drive Plate, and the Wave Washer.

http://motorsportmonster.com/fiche_...=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2008&fveh=18975

Part #6, and #13.

Fairly easy to change these out. You don't need to remove the tube nut or anything like that. Just the clutch cover, 6 bolts for the clutch hub, and remove the clutch plates. BigPapa has a how-to on this.

I'd also recommend a new gasket. part # 11482-48G00.

And, soak your plates in fresh oil overnight. :bigthumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
The #2 Drive Plate, and the Wave Washer.

http://motorsportmonster.com/fiche_...=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2008&fveh=18975

Part #6, and #13.

Fairly easy to change these out. You don't need to remove the tube nut or anything like that. Just the clutch cover, 6 bolts for the clutch hub, and remove the clutch plates. BigPapa has a how-to on this.

I'd also recommend a new gasket. part # 11482-48G00.

And, soak your plates in fresh oil overnight. :bigthumbsup:
:agree::agree::agree:Mine was done under (extended)waranty. Those two parts were the only things that were changed and that cured a very bad shudder issue. Got 3k so far with no problems
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
643 Posts
Shot in the dark Jim, but did you check for the whole clutch hub nut backoff?

Probably not the case, but you got an '06, right? I dunno....just a thought....since I'm married now I'm finding those don't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore.

See you in spring time......right after snowmobile season. We're supposed to have more pilots to help with the schedule.....hopefully we can ride more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,039 Posts
Here's the part #
wave washer 21472-48G10 $21.49
rear plate 21441-48G40 $15.99


My rear plate was the same thickness as the new plate but it was not flat,it was warped.I was ready to replace all the plates and fibers but they were all in the factory spec's.I really think you should check out the clutch before a $50.00 oil change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here's the part #
wave washer 21472-48G10 $21.49
rear plate 21441-48G40 $15.99

My rear plate was the same thickness as the new plate but it was not flat,it was warped.I was ready to replace all the plates and fibers but they were all in the factory spec's.I really think you should check out the clutch before a $50.00 oil change.
The oil change was gonna happen anyway, so it isn't like I'll be spending money on that I wasn't going to spend, and I think I'll try the 20W-50 just to see if it improves anything. Maybe it'll make enough of a difference to where I won't have to take the clutch apart, but if I do, I do....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,039 Posts
Good luck and let us no how it works for you.If you do need to do the clutch, I ran my bike up on a 2x10 front and rear so it would lean over farther on the kick stand.Then you don't have to drain your oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Shot in the dark Jim, but did you check for the whole clutch hub nut backoff?

Probably not the case, but you got an '06, right? I dunno....just a thought....since I'm married now I'm finding those don't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore.

See you in spring time......right after snowmobile season. We're supposed to have more pilots to help with the schedule.....hopefully we can ride more.
Actually, mine's an '07, but no I haven't checked the hub nut. I was really hoping I wouldn't have to tear it apart, but I guess if the thicker oil doesn't get rid of the problem I'll have to.

Lots of stuff going on with me and the family right now. I may be transferring to the Green Bay office fairly soon. If that job doesn't open it looks like we'll be selling the OH home and moving to IL next summer. If we decide to hold off on that for one reason or another, I'll continue doing the commuting thing between IL, OH, and MI for a while longer, but I may not take my scoot back to IL. I have it here in OH now. I think the last 3 months I still had the bike in IL I rode it maybe 3 or 4 times, and that was by myself. I could just never get anyone to go riding, and I know in your case, it wasn't because you didn't want to go, you have a very tight schedule. Here in OH I almost always have someone to ride with. If we end up moving there, maybe we could go for a full day's ride somewhere...
 
G

·
These ones are always tough. Could just be a coincidence.

I'd try the 20/50 and if you still have it, go to the rotella 5/40 syn, as I understand it flows better cold, and has a film thickness of 50 weight at temp.

But it sounds like fixing the root cause may just be the best course at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
20/50

Even back in the old days ,,,, 1977-1990, I always used 20/50 oil. The Suzuki mechanic said rpm's would foam 10/40, but not the 20/50. Back then the redline was 8500 - 9000 rpm, so not a big difference from today. I've never used the synthetic, but I like the idea of a 20/50 or a 5/40 synthetic.

Thanks for all the tips on Rotella T6, and the discussion on the clutch shudder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Well, I have always used Castrol 20w50 in all three of my V-Maxes, and when I traded my 2006 V-Max for the M109r, it took me all of 5 seconds once I noticed the the 20w50 was also a recommended weight to stay with it. As I bought the M109r in March of this year with less than 10miles on her, I used the ride from Indianna to Illinois as the break in and swapped out the factory oil with Castrol 20w50 the day after I got home.

I have yet to experiance the shudder and have over 5000miles on her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,263 Posts
20-50 oil

I use Yamalube 20-50 oil (not synthetic) myself. It's hard to say what fixed it, but I had the shudder, took it apart and soaked the clutch plates, did the Bluey fix, and changed to 20-50 all at the same time. No shudder since. So it's one or more of those in my case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,938 Posts
Mines never had the shudder, and its never seen anything but Suzuki 20W-50 petroleum oil.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top