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Nothing wrong with the first generation clutch.
They last and work just fine if installed and adjusted properly.
Some have put 100,000 miles on their stock 5 stack clutch.
I am still running my stock first gen clutch even with all the burn outs and drag racing and I know many, many more with high miles still running their stock first gen clutches.
The newer 6 stack may well be an improvement as it gives you more total friction surface, but that does not mean the 1st gen 5 stack was no good.

The 10,000 # gorilla in the room is still the fact that OP is being told (and believes) his hydraulic clutch is somehow not compatible with the newer clutch stack....but a cable pull is. o_O
Would someone else who knows what they are talking about please chime in here and put this fallacy to rest once and for all?
I am getting dizzy going in circles with this and its bound to confuse the hell out of others who read this thread in the future and don't know any better.

BCS

:p*Let's Go Brandon*:p
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Nothing wrong with the first generation clutch.
They last and work just fine if installed and adjusted properly.
Some have put 100,000 miles on their stock 5 stack clutch.
I am still running my stock first gen clutch even with all the burn outs and drag racing and I know many, many more with high miles still running their stock first gen clutches.
The newer 6 stack may well be an improvement as it gives you more total friction surface, but that does not mean the 1st gen 5 stack was no good.

The 10,000 # gorilla in the room is still the fact that OP is being told (and believes) his hydraulic clutch is somehow not compatible with the newer clutch stack....but a cable pull is. o_O
BCS

I'm writing with my smartphone now and not with my laptop, as I'm out for work. So I cannot write long now.

But my Suzuki mechanics never said that the hydro clutch is not compatible with the '9's clutch. Indeed when I proposed them to consider returning to the stock cable, they replied that it would be not probably appropriate as I would deny myself the hydro clutch's advantages (avoid a road fix upon cable failure). I even showed them my stock cable and lever as I kept it in my garage, but they simply said to maintain hydro clutch along with the 1st clutch kit with stronger springs.

Surprise surprise, the clutch slippage disappeared completely with the 1st generation kit.
 

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My Suzuki mechanics never said that the hydro clutch is not compatible with the '9's clutch
Uhh, pretty sure you said this in post #1 and post 23. Also read post 25 again just for s&g :)
No worries though I am getting used to this sort of thing listening to our current politicians speak daily.

Just a couple of other things...
In post 29 you say that the hydraulic clutch is self adjusting......it is not.

And just for guys reading this thread in the future......either the 5 or 6 clutch stack will work just fine if installed and adjusted properly, the OP just had a bad experience for what ever reason.
Lots of guys out there with newer 6 stack clutches that work fine.
Personally I would use the stronger springs with either clutch stack, but that's just me.

BCS

:p*Let's Go Brandon*:p
 

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I have been reading this and feel the need to throw in some insight as I sell a hydraulic clutch kit and have installed quite a few, on newer and older clutch setups. From the point that the arm depresses, there is absolutely no difference to the point that the pressure plate disengages the outer most drive plate. The adjustment of the pin is what determines the length of throw from the arm to do that, nothing else. The spring pressure is all the same, whether you have a cable or hydraulic clutch kit. If the spring pressure is good enough to clamp the pressure plate with a cable, that is the exact same with the hydraulic clutch. The only difference would be that if you have the hydraulic clutch incorrectly adjusted, that would be the only way you would slip while riding. I have installed the Revo as well as the one that I sell and both act the exact same way, that if you do not have the slave adjusted right, it will slip. A couple very small adjustments from that point and no issues. I have installed around ten on the later year bikes, and these guys ride hard, and not one of them has come back to me with an issue.
 

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I have been reading this and feel the need to throw in some insight as I sell a hydraulic clutch kit and have installed quite a few, on newer and older clutch setups. From the point that the arm depresses, there is absolutely no difference to the point that the pressure plate disengages the outer most drive plate. The adjustment of the pin is what determines the length of throw from the arm to do that, nothing else. The spring pressure is all the same, whether you have a cable or hydraulic clutch kit. If the spring pressure is good enough to clamp the pressure plate with a cable, that is the exact same with the hydraulic clutch. The only difference would be that if you have the hydraulic clutch incorrectly adjusted, that would be the only way you would slip while riding. I have installed the Revo as well as the one that I sell and both act the exact same way, that if you do not have the slave adjusted right, it will slip. A couple very small adjustments from that point and no issues. I have installed around ten on the later year bikes, and these guys ride hard, and not one of them has come back to me with an issue.
There's one of the guy's I wanted to jump in to confirm what I was saying and put this issue to bed. (Thanks Harris)
The way this thread was going in circles and filled with misinformation it will surly be very confusing for anyone reading now and well into the future so wanted to make sure no one walked away from this thinking there was a problem with 5 v/s 6 clutch stack or hydraulic v/s cable pull.......because they all certainly work fine in any combination.
The OP obviously either had the 6 stack installed improperly or something was not adjusted correctly.....but he was certainly not convinced hearing it from me alone. :)

BCS
 

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There's one of the guy's I wanted to jump in to confirm what I was saying and put this issue to bed. (Thanks Harris)
The way this thread was going in circles and filled with miss information it will surly be very confusing for anyone reading now and well into the future so wanted to make sure no one walked away from this thinking there was a problem with 5 v/s 6 clutch stack or hydraulic v/s cable pull.......because they all certainly work fine in any combination.
The OP obviously either had the 6 stack installed improperly or something was not adjusted correctly.....but he was certainly not convinced hearing it from me alone. :)

BCS
You're welcome bro. I see mechanics not be able to figure things out, then come up with there own theories and customers just think that is the end all. Not saying he doesn't have a great mechanic, but, a good mechanic needs to sit and think about the whole setup. If Suzuki puts out bikes with both early and later year clutches with no issues with a cable, you have to go back to the part itself that is causing it to fail. Doesn't mean it is not compatible, it means it was installed incorrectly, out of adjustment or is just a faulty part to begin with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Ok let me phrase that another way.
How many of you out there have a 2011 or newer M109R and have added a hydraulic clutch to it?
BCS
That was a good question to ask indeed.

It would be interesting also to hear if somebody felt that the performance of its hydro clutch was deteriorating over time, like perhaps what is happening to me after approx. 90K Km? By using together the results from these two questions, it could be possible to build a better picture about my 2nd generation clutch kit going bad ...
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Not saying he doesn't have a great mechanic, but, a good mechanic needs to sit and think about the whole setup.
... I see that what I told you did not reach you ... I'm not saying that you're not a good mechanic, but think twice before drawing the conclusion that mechanics that you do not know at all were not doing their job professionally ... A '9's clutch is nothing exotic and as Kawasaki and MV Agusta dealers/mechanics they've fixed tens and tens of clutches, also for other brands' V-twins and racing bikes (y)

Otherwise just continue your Facebook influencer method ...
 
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... I see that what I told you did not reach you ... I'm not saying that you're not a good mechanic, but think twice before drawing the conclusion that mechanics that you do not know at all were not doing their job professionally ... A '9's clutch is nothing exotic and as Kawasaki and MV Agusta dealers/mechanics they've fixed tens and tens of clutches, also for other brands' V-twins and racing bikes (y)

Otherwise just continue your Facebook influencer method ...
LOL..... Not sure WTF it is that I am influencing, no one paid me a dollar.
And talk about drawing wild conclusions......read back over the mess that is this thread and see how many wild conclusions you posted about the issues your own bike is having.
All I tried to do is help you and steer you in the right direction.
But obviously that was totally lost on you and I will be sure not to make the same mistake and waste my time in the future with you.....after all, I was not the one with issues looking for help, you came asking for advise and I gave you the correct advise...... But all I got out of the deal is a hard time and a headache for my troubles.
Nothing I said to you is incorrect and maybe your mechanic is great like you say.....but either they were giving you bad info or you are just very confused about what they actually were saying the issue was. This is very evident by simply reading what you wrote in this thread. You are the one that wrote what you wrote, all I could do is read what you wrote and draw conclusions from that. And what you wrote made little to no since at all throughout most of the thread.
But whatever, its no skin off my teeth, my bike runs just fine.
Enjoy your ride.

BCS

:p*Let's Go Brandon*:p
 

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... I see that what I told you did not reach you ... I'm not saying that you're not a good mechanic, but think twice before drawing the conclusion that mechanics that you do not know at all were not doing their job professionally ... A '9's clutch is nothing exotic and as Kawasaki and MV Agusta dealers/mechanics they've fixed tens and tens of clutches, also for other brands' V-twins and racing bikes (y)

Otherwise just continue your Facebook influencer method ...
Ok let’s try this a different way since you feel offended and want to come at me. Your mechanic is an idiot. plain and simple. This is not rocket science. Anyone that concludes the clutch is not compatible with the later years is an idiot. It is that simple. Your mechanic clearly has very little understanding how the clutch setup works if he thinks the hydraulic clutch is the issue, in terms of compatibility. How about who set up the clutch last when you put the new clutch in? Same mechanic? Does he understand he has to adjust the pin? Did he do it with the slave hooked up? So before you come at me, how about knowing what your god of a mechanic actually did before attacking people who are trying to help you.
 

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I think Dommy confused Harris's response with yours, BCS,

Oops, got a phone call just as I started typing this and Harris responded before I finished it. I'm out. :)
 

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... I see that what I told you did not reach you ... I'm not saying that you're not a good mechanic, but think twice before drawing the conclusion that mechanics that you do not know at all were not doing their job professionally ... A '9's clutch is nothing exotic and as Kawasaki and MV Agusta dealers/mechanics they've fixed tens and tens of clutches, also for other brands' V-twins and racing bikes (y)

Otherwise just continue your Facebook influencer method ...
Oh and just to put this out there. I have done over a hundred 109 clutches and never had one come back. I have installed many Hydraulic clutches without any issues. Not sure what “Facebook influencer” means, but one thing I can guarantee you is that I do not need to take my bike to a shop nor post up on a forum for help.
 

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I think Dommy confused Harris's response with yours, BCS,

Oops, got a phone call just as I started typing this and Harris responded before I finished it. I'm out. :)
LOL......I did not catch that he had quoted Harris when I responded :)
I knew he was speaking to me and I responded appropriately.

But the OP's mistake sure did come back to bite him in the butt.......Harris did a great job getting right to the point of the matter. :)

It's very telling how the OP keeps saying the 9's clutch is not exotic or complicated....yet has to take his bike to someone else to be repaired and is now on his 3rd clutch.

Perhaps he is using the "Build Back Better" method of motorcycle repair....spend an absolute fortune tearing it all down to try something new, only too fail because you have no clue what you are doing. Then go back and install what was originally there in order to get things back on track and working again. (Hmm..sounds very familiar)

BCS

:p*Let's Go Brandon*:p
 

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LOL......I did not catch that he had quoted Harris when I responded :)
I knew he was speaking to me and I responded appropriately.

But the OP's mistake sure did come back to bite him in the butt.......Harris did a great job getting right to the point of the matter. :)

It's very telling how the OP keeps saying the 9's clutch is not exotic or complicated....yet has to take his bike to someone else to be repaired and is now on his 3rd clutch.

Perhaps he is using the "Build Back Better" method of motorcycle repair....spend an absolute fortune tearing it all down to try something new, only too fail because you have no clue what you are doing. Then go back and install what was originally there in order to get things back on track and working again. (Hmm..sounds very familiar)

BCS

:p*Let's Go Brandon*:p
I was actually confused on why he came at me. Originally I never trashed his mechanic. I simply stated that when troubleshooting, a mechanic needs to sit back and think about it the whole setup. Sometimes that answer is right in front of you but it takes a good night's sleep to see it the next day. Too many times, the mechanic will feed b.s. to the customer, who then takes it and thinks it is all truth. And as you stated, then that misinformation is put out on the forum/Facebook and people then go with it, which isn't good. I saw that comment a few times about how it isn't complex and that is the one thing I can agree with. However, if it isn't complex, why did his "professional mechanic" have issues and the solution was it didn't work on a later year clutch, versus maybe a simple slave or clutch adjustment. But hey, what do we all know? Was it adjusted wrong initially, and the clutch was hurt based on that? At the end of the day, his bike is fixed and he is happy so that is good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
I think he just lives his life in confusion from what I can see.
Yes, it's true ... I confused the two members here in the discussio, my bad ... I'm out abroad for work, meeting and trainings with many people, long days ... it was late evening and tired :):):) I apologize for this.

But I'm not impressed at all with all this fire against me ... you just me laugh more and more :D. You know, your absolute faith and 100% sure and all that chat, against a detailed description of feelings while riding and springs measurements.

My bike goes strong now and that's the most important part to me.
Apologies also if I jeopardized your parts selling business... It was not done on purpose 🤡.

I do not want anymore to discuss this topic with you... I use my free time to ride whenever I can.
 
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Yes, it's true ... I confused the two members here in the discussio, my bad ... I'm out abroad for work, meeting and trainings with many people, long days ... it was late evening and tired :):):) I apologize for this.

But I'm not impressed at all with all this fire against me ... you just me laugh more and more :D. You know, your absolute faith and 100% sure and all that chat, against a detailed description of feelings while riding and springs measurements.

My bike goes strong now and that's the most important part to me.
Apologies also if I jeopardized your parts selling business... It was not done on purpose 🤡.

I do not want anymore to discuss this topic with you... I use my free time to ride whenever I can.
It's all good Dommy. I was confused because I didn't understand why you had come at me like that, but now I know it wasn't directed at me. We are all here to help, Keep in mind, the detailed descriptions about spring rate doesn't necessarily apply at all. You can use that to differentiate between the two clutch stack springs, and lever feel, but that doesn't mean anything when compared to "clamping pressure" from the pressure plate and what it can hold, power wise. Your feel is spot on as the bike feels better to you and only you know that. There is an old saying, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?". With all the measurements done, was it a problem with the clutch itself after previous install? Had the mechanic put in a new clutch, and it was adjusted properly, would we not be having this conversation?

Also, food for thought, the different feeling you had in the lever is indicative of a bad slave. When you use the clutch a lot it works fine but after an extended period of time, then the engagement point is way off, that is a problem with the rod in the slave down to the stopper. Inside there is a rubber stopper attached to the rod. Looking at the angle of your slave, it wouldn't surprise me if the rod had the slightest of bends in it and it was allowing a tiny amount of air in there. When you bleed it, you always have a little air in the system. Revo now tells you to bleed it before mounting and rotate it various directions to try and bleed out that air. I had the same issue on the wife's bike when I first put on the Australian slave. I replaced it and has been perfect ever since.
 
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