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cbxer55 said:
If you buy it at a cycle shop, it will be good for bikes with wet clutches.
Cycle shops don't just sell oil for wet clutches. They also sell oil with Moly added, which you don't want to use with wet clutches.
 

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midnight hour said:
Is It ok to use amsoil?
Heck yeah. Contact Oil Doc on the board. He's an Amsoil dealer, and will give members an awesome price by the case.
 

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Thanks medic.....

AMSOIL has 2 M/C Specific oils, 10W-40 and 20W-50.  The 10W-40, Product Code MCF is the recommended oil and the EAOM-109 filter to go along with it.

I would suggest in todays market, that you look for the JASO Rating on an oil. This is important for the clutch. MB is the lowest rating and definitely not for any bike that has plenty of torque or HP, MA is the most common and then the highest rating is MA 2. Both of the AMSOIL M/C oils are MA 2 rated.

There is no filter that compares to the AMSOIL EAO Series filter which is 15 Micron Absolute where even a very good filter will be in the low 20's Nominal which means that they catch particles that size 50% of the time.

50% or Absolute, the choice is yours..

Email me for a quote on what you are looking for... Most of the 109'ers go with a case of MCF (12 qts) 3 EAOM-109 filters, which is enough to cover the case of oil, and a qt of SVG 75W-90 Severe Gear Lube..   That is the most economical way to buy, But I will sell in any quantity.

I sell to ALL Forum Members at Dealer Cost.... My Toll Free number is probably the easiest to reach me.

Bob
 

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I'm using Castrol 15W-40 Tection Extra and my clutch likes it. Yes, this is a little unorthodox, considering the oil is marketed for diesel engines, but it gives me very good clutch function. My clutch chattering is all but a thing of the past now.
 

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Diesel oil is not as unorthodox as you might think but is not as good of a choice as most think. Sure, it will work, but I believe it got started with the Harley crowd as Harley recommends diesel oil as a substitute where their specified oil is not available. Harley recommends it for the engine ONLY.

Although MOST diesel oil does not contain friction modifiers and Most are safe for the clutch, diesel oil does not offer as much protection for the gears in the tranny and actually breaks down quicker in other bikes that have an engine/trans combined sump. This has been proved through oil analysis. So you may start with a 40 weight, you may end up with a 30 weight before too long.

Bob
 

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Many thanks for the added info on molecular shearing. I would have thought quite the opposite, considering how tough diesel engines are on lubricants. This variety of Castrol does have a gasoline engine SM designator as I recall. In my case, I have never gone beyond 2000 miles on oil in this particular bike, so I don't worry a lot about engine oil longevity. I have two more gallons of Tection, and don't particularly plan to buy more. I am always "hunting" for alternative products.
 

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I have always used Castrol 20-50 here in FLA. It is Non-energy conserving and meets the book requirements. I also change the oil every 2k miles since it is shared with the transmission. Never had any clutch problems. My 2 cents anyway.
Gary
 

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Picking an oil other than motorcycle specific

My rationale is like yours: Oil that undergoes lots of shear forces will "wear out" much earlier than one might otherwise expect. You either change oil more frequently or select a product made to resist the shearing. Zinc and molybdenum are great strengthening agents, but not recommended in applications like the M109R because of potential clutch slipping in the presence of those metals.
 

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Actually, diesels aren't hard on oil due to applied forces, as most are large clearance, slow rotating luggers, high RPM on a heavy duty diesel is 3000 ,they are harder on oil due to soot loading. Engines like a Detroit 12 L used over the road, have a 20 K oil change interval, but have a 44 Qt ( 11 Gallon ) sump. Like a Mercedes car, they have extended (18,000 mile) drain interval. They have an 8-10 Qt sump and ONLY on Synthetic oil.

The new 2007 diesels, whether medium or heavy duty have new oil requirements partially due to ULSD (Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel) fuel and also because of the exhaust filters used. If Pre 2006 Diesel oil is used in these engines, which I already know a few people that you can't tell different, it not only clogs these exhaust filters, which are $$$$, it also causes excessive wear on the engines.

Many people think that it makes no difference how an engine is driven or the environment that it runs in, makes any difference for oil changes. I am glad to see that you realize differently. I actually sell an oil rated for a 35 K oil change interval for automotive use. But, I have a customer with a Street/Strip Mazda that through oil analysis, knows he has to change his oil about 17,000 miles. ANY oil can and WILL break down and even faster when abused.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL and Happy Riding

Bob
 

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Lest ye forget...

Consider film strength requirements in diesels: Conrod big end bearings and wrist pins get a severe whacking by the high compression. Film strength lends itself effectively to a bit more tranny shearing resistance in the gear train of the typical unitized scooter lubrication system.
 

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I am still going to stand by what a Tribolgist I know has recommended and that is to not run a Diesel oil. At least if the proper oil is available, in an emergency, just about any oil is better than no oil.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL and Happy Riding

Bob
 

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Hey, you really SHOULD go with the advice of your tribologist friend, if you don't feel comfortable with assessing certain product applications.  In view of the fact that Castrol Tection is rated as SL grade, I won't worry about it.  SL meets the requirement as I understand it for the VZR1800 (M109R).
 

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And thank you for your suggestions. Fooling around with lube alternatives is at the very least entertaining! Between here and the Edmunds site I have noted that engine lubrication is fraught with controversy.
 
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