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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello i need a lil help here please. I have a 2017 m109r with just 1k miles on it. Bought it brand new. So my friend asked me for a ride so i let him he was very fresh into bikes. Not much exp. and when he came back he came pushing the bike. Now the bike as soon as i put it in first gear it shuts off right away as if i wasnt even touching the clutch. I adjusted everything at max and still the same. I check the clutch switch and its fine. I checked the stand switch and is also good. So i ran out of options.
 

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Welcome to the Forum.
With the M109R you do not want the clutch cable to be adjusted to tight.
There needs to be quite a bit of slack in the lever or the clutch cable will have to much tension and will break or if you have put way to much adjustment in the clutch could begin slipping and then possibly need to be replaced.
Proper clutch adjustment on the M109R is critical or you will create other issues. (Tight adjustment is not correct and there must be slack in the cable)

First question I would have to ask is.......Is your kick stand up when you put the bike in gear?
If the kick stand is not up then the bike is going to shut off when in gear.
Does the bike lurch forward when you put it in gear or does it just shut off?

If it just shuts off then have a look at your side stand switch and flasher relay to insure they are both working properly.

If the bike lurches forward when you put it in gear then the clutch is not disengaging. and the issue is likely the Tube nut that holds the primary gear to clutch basket has come loose.
Its a pretty common issue with these bikes.

So first take some the adjustment you put in your cable back out so you don't cause another (separate) issue.
Then determine if the issue is the bike is cutting off electrically due to the safety circuit for the side stand or is the clutch actually not disengaging.
An easy way to tell if the clutch is not disengaging is, with the bike turned off, put it in 1st gear, pull the clutch lever and try to roll the bike.....if it does not roll then the clutch is not disengaged.

At that point if your bike has a warranty still, take it to the dealership and tell them you believe the Tubular nut has come loose in the clutch basket and they should take care of it for you.
If you want to do the job yourself, remove the exhaust, remove the clutch cover, remove the hub nut, pressure plate, clutch stack and hub......then you will see the tubular nut.
At this point you can pull the entire clutch basket out of the bike. Hold the basket in one hand and try to push and pull on the primary gear, if it moves in and out of the clutch basket at all then your tube nut is loose. If it does not move at al then the tube nut is likely tight.......but I would bet more than pocket change you find it moves.
The primary gear will not spin in the clutch basket because it is splined, it will only move in and out if the tube nut is loose.

BCS
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello my friend thanks for the reply. I have a cuestion what is the flasher relay? The light flasher lol sorry i dont know. And why would a flasher relay cause the bike not to move. On the other hand i just tried what you told me. Stand and clutch switch are good. And if when you ask if the bike lurches forward you mean it tries to run then yes it does. It tries to go but inmediatly shutts off. Also tried the other thing you said. I put it in first gear with the bike off and when i hold the clutch it does not move. I hold the clutch and push it forward but it does not disengage
 

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The flasher relay and kick stand relay are in the same relay housing. One doesn't really have anything to do with the other, but for some reason Suzuki incorporated both of them into the same unit. Some people have swapped out the flasher relay when changing to LED bulbs, not realizing they also took out the kick stand relay too.

By lurching forward, BCS is asking if when you have the bike running, clutch pulled in, then put it in gear, does it jump forward and die? If it just plain shuts off with no lurch, it's an electrical problem. If it jumps forward when you drop it in gear and kills the engine, the tube nut is probably loose.
 

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Hello my friend thanks for the reply. I have a cuestion what is the flasher relay? The light flasher lol sorry i dont know. And why would a flasher relay cause the bike not to move. On the other hand i just tried what you told me. Stand and clutch switch are good. And if when you ask if the bike lurches forward you mean it tries to run then yes it does. It tries to go but inmediatly shutts off. Also tried the other thing you said. I put it in first gear with the bike off and when i hold the clutch it does not move. I hold the clutch and push it forward but it does not disengage

Sounds like your Tube Nut is loose.
When this is loose it allows the clutch basket to move along with the clutch stack, so your clutch plates never separate and the clutch stays engaged all the time.
Its not a tough job to fix it if you are mechanically inclined.
Just pay close attention to which bolts go where in the clutch cover (they are not all the same) and how the clutch stack comes out, so you can put it back together the exact same way you took it apart. (except in reverse)
You will however need to purchase a special socket (and use a impact) to tighten the tube nut.
Or you can make a tool out of a 4x4 hub socket by grinding 2 of the pins off and trimming it up so it will mate up tight enough to get the job done. (Its not perfect but it works)

As for the flasher relay.....the flasher relay would not keep the bike from moving. But it may have been an issue if your bike was cutting off electrically, its part of the ignition interlock circuit and contains a relay contact for the side stand switch. (See attached diagram)
But since you have confirmed the bike will not roll when in gear with the clutch lever pulled, that pretty much confirms the issue is the tube nut.

One last thing I would ask to rule out anything else is......Does your clutch pull still feel normal? In other words when you pull the clutch lever do you still feel resistance and normal and when you release the lever does it snap back like it always did?
If the answer is yes then I would bet the farm that the tube nut is your issue.

BCS
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The flasher relay and kick stand relay are in the same relay housing. One doesn't really have anything to do with the other, but for some reason Suzuki incorporated both of them into the same unit. Some people have swapped out the flasher relay when changing to LED bulbs, not realizing they also took out the kick stand relay too.

By lurching forward, BCS is asking if when you have the bike running, clutch pulled in, then put it in gear, does it jump forward and die? If it just plain shuts off with no lurch, it's an electrical problem. If it jumps forward when you drop it in gear and kills the engine, the tube nut is probably loose.
Yes it jumps. It looks like it is what you guys are saying. Thanks. Now i gotta get me some tools and get it done. Cueation foes that require a new clutch? I dont think so right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sounds like your Tube Nut is loose.
When this is loose it allows the clutch basket to move along with the clutch stack, so your clutch plates never separate and the clutch stays engaged all the time.
Its not a tough job to fix it if you are mechanically inclined.
Just pay close attention to which bolts go where in the clutch cover (they are not all the same) and how the clutch stack comes out, so you can put it back together the exact same way you took it apart. (except in reverse)
You will however need to purchase a special socket (and use a impact) to tighten the tube nut.
Or you can make a tool out of a 4x4 hub socket by grinding 2 of the pins off and trimming it up so it will mate up tight enough to get the job done. (Its not perfect but it works)

As for the flasher relay.....the flasher relay would not keep the bike from moving. But it may have been an issue if your bike was cutting off electrically, its part of the ignition interlock circuit and contains a relay contact for the side stand switch. (See attached diagram)
But since you have confirmed the bike will not roll when in gear with the clutch lever pulled, that pretty much confirms the issue is the tube nut.

One last thing I would ask to rule out anything else is......Does your clutch pull still feel normal? In other words when you pull the clutch lever do you still feel resistance and normal and when you release the lever does it snap back like it always did?
If the answer is yes then I would bet the farm that the tube nut is your issue.

BCS
Yes the clutch feels the same as when i bought it
 

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Here is a video Andy Medina (Some 9) published in 2013
And another that one of my customers put out in 2018 on the subject.
I have not watched either video (and cannot at this moment either) but I imagine they may be helpful for you.

BCS


 

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Here are some photos of my ******* tube nut socket I made from a 4x4 hub socket.
Its sketchy, only bites in 2 places and yes I know it says right on it that its not for impact use.
But if you want to ride tomorrow and not wait a week & spend $$$ ordering the proper tool from Suzuki that you will likely only use once......this works well enough to get the job done.
Just grind off 2 tabs and grind the 2 that are left down enough do the socket sits on the nut flush without the tabs protruding past the nut and let er rip, tatter chip.
Be sure to put a bit of red (high strength) loc-tite on the threads before you torque it down. The lock tight will keep it from coming loose again if you run it down good and tight with an heavy impact gun.

BCS
 

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One other thing to be aware of.
Most times you can just tighten the nut back up without issue, but occasionally the thread on the nut gets deformed and is no longer usable. Be sure to take the nut off see if it easily threads back on with you fingers to insure its not damaged.

I had this happen once and ended up having to make a new nut. (Suzuki does not sell the nut as a replacement part, you have to buy a new complete clutch basket and gear assembly from them)
You can see in this photo we made the new nut with only 2 indentions on the outside so my homebrew tube nut socket fit perfectly. :cool:
The factory tube nut will have 5 or 6 tabs sticking off it similar to an electrical lock nut. So the homemade socket is going to be a tad offset when you mate up to2 tabs opposite of each other. So go easy but I have used this several times in a pinch and does work well enough to get er done.

BCS
 

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One other thing to be aware of.
Most times you can just tighten the nut back up without issue, but occasionally the thread on the nut gets deformed and is no longer usable. Be sure to take the nut off see if it easily threads back on with you fingers to insure its not damaged.

I had this happen once and ended up having to make a new nut. (Suzuki does not sell the nut as a replacement part, you have to buy a new complete clutch basket and gear assembly from them)
You can see in this photo we made the new nut with only 2 indentions on the outside so my homebrew tube nut socket fit perfectly. :cool:
The factory tube nut will have 5 or 6 tabs sticking off it similar to an electrical lock nut. So the homemade socket is going to be a tad offset when you mate up to2 tabs opposite of each other. So go easy but I have used this several times in a pinch and does work well enough to get er done.

BCS
BCS, if you don't mind me asking, how did you make that nut? Did you actually find one that fit and machined the notches into it, or did you make the entire nut?

I have a small lathe and thought about trying to make one like that, but have never taken the time to tear the bike down to get the nut dimensions. And I'm not sure I can accurately do an internal thread with what I have, or if it would be strong enough without a good way to heat treat it after machining.
 

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BCS, if you don't mind me asking, how did you make that nut? Did you actually find one that fit and machined the notches into it, or did you make the entire nut?

I have a small lathe and thought about trying to make one like that, but have never taken the time to tear the bike down to get the nut dimensions. And I'm not sure I can accurately do an internal thread with what I have, or if it would be strong enough without a good way to heat treat it after machining.
I have a neighbor who is a machinist, gave him the OEM nut & the homebrew socket I made to reference and he made a new nut for me from scratch.
Dude is wizard with metal, CNC, lathes, milling machines, etc.
The new nut seemed much better than the OEM.

That was years ago on my 2007 109 that I eventually parted out after having a crank issue.
I still have the nut and complete clutch from that bike stashed away somewhere in the shop.

We have a dinosaur of a lathe and a milling machine here on the ship that I play around with now and then, but honestly its not really my forte, I can cut the general shape of things pretty well, but I have yet to master getting a good clean finish on the end result and I personally have never tried to cut threads on a lathe myself.

A member of this site by the forum name "Metal Man" I am sure could knock this out with ease also.
 

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Wow PC (politically correct) has really taken over the world I see.
I just noticed that the word "Red Neck" in my comment above with photos of the socket got blocked out with asterisks, when I use it as one word instead of two.
Can't even call yourself something these days without being censored.

The world has gone straight to hell in a handbasket and it seems most are not satisfied with that. Now we are digging at the bottom of hell going deeper to see what's below.

Wonder how many words will be blocked out in this post?

BCS
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here is a video Andy Medina (Some 9) published in 2013
And another that one of my customers put out in 2018 on the subject.
I have not watched either video (and cannot at this moment either) but I imagine they may be helpful for you.

BCS


Hey guys thanks for the help i think i found the problem lol
419667

Here is a video Andy Medina (Some 9) published in 2013
And another that one of my customers put out in 2018 on the subject.
I have not watched either video (and cannot at this moment either) but I imagine they may be helpful for you.

BCS


Hello guys i think i found the problem lol. Clutch busted
419668
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have a neighbor who is a machinist, gave him the OEM nut & the homebrew socket I made to reference and he made a new nut for me from scratch.
Dude is wizard with metal, CNC, lathes, milling machines, etc.
The new nut seemed much better than the OEM.

That was years ago on my 2007 109 that I eventually parted out after having a crank issue.
I still have the nut and complete clutch from that bike stashed away somewhere in the shop.

We have a dinosaur of a lathe and a milling machine here on the ship that I play around with now and then, but honestly its not really my forte, I can cut the general shape of things pretty well, but I have yet to master getting a good clean finish on the end result and I personally have never tried to cut threads on a lathe myself.

A member of this site by the forum name "Metal Man" I am sure could knock this out with ease also.
This is the problen my friend. Any idea where i can find this clutch in stock?
419669
 

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Oneida Suzuki is the cheapest. How does your basket look. If you have a lot of crap in there, hate to say it but you need to drop the oil pan. Have to clean it and the sump screens. If you look below your clutch basket you will see where the Oil goes into the pan. All if those fibers wash down into the pan.
 

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I have a neighbor who is a machinist, gave him the OEM nut & the homebrew socket I made to reference and he made a new nut for me from scratch.
Dude is wizard with metal, CNC, lathes, milling machines, etc.
The new nut seemed much better than the OEM.

That was years ago on my 2007 109 that I eventually parted out after having a crank issue.
I still have the nut and complete clutch from that bike stashed away somewhere in the shop.

We have a dinosaur of a lathe and a milling machine here on the ship that I play around with now and then, but honestly its not really my forte, I can cut the general shape of things pretty well, but I have yet to master getting a good clean finish on the end result and I personally have never tried to cut threads on a lathe myself.

A member of this site by the forum name "Metal Man" I am sure could knock this out with ease also.
Thanks for the reply BCS.. I'm glad you mentioned still having the nut and the basket, as that made me remember I have one too. Years ago when the clutch shudder problem first surfaced some Suzuki dealers were replacing the clutch baskets under warranty, and I bought one of the replaced units from a member on here. It would still have the nut in it too. I might see if I can find that and either try making a better nut, or a better tool to remove it. I'm OK at grinding and cutting on things but I'm far from a machinist.
 
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