[The Piano Man]

Hey all.

So they have a thread in the M109 about oil puking issues coming from the left air box. I wanted to see if this issue is as often in the C109's. This is the information I would like to know. We definitely need to find a way to resolve this issue.

Some say its how you fill your bike up. I disagree, but I'm no mechanic. This is what we would all like to know.

* At how many miles did the bike start puking?
*What kind of oil do you use.
*Did you use the 15/3 rule? (drain oil, including filter if need replaced, put oil plugs and new filter in, fill 3,000 ml, run on idle for 15 minutes, let sit for three, add about 600 more or until inbetween low and full marks on the cross bars of your dipstick)
* Any notice of loss of gas mileage while it is puking?
*Did you check the level while bike is in up position or on the stand.

Here's my story in somewhat of a nutshell

*Purchased bike one month ago
*Did initial break in of bike within a few days (getting ready for 3k tour)
*After 600 miles took it to dealer for first service. (changed oil)
*Left on motorcycle tour, bike did fine. Checked oil once a day, level was
perfect, no worries
*returned home with 3200 miles on current oil.
*Once home noticed oil on left side of bike and saddlebags (this did not
occur at all during trip)
*Took it into dealer. Said I overfilled it (nope, they filled it) Told them level
was fine until i got home
*They told me the oil expanded and needed to go somewhere so it goes
into the air box (Expanded after only 3200 miles.. yeah right)
*Dealer cleaned out air box
*I took the bike home, changed the oil myself (10W40 motorcycle dyno.
took out 3600 ml, put in 3600 ml. oil level showed just where it needed to
be.
*rode bike for 20 miles, and started puking again
*Looked at oil. Didnt register on dipstick (after engine was ran and sat for
few minutes

Well there you have it. I would like to know how you guys are doing with your bikes if it is puking or not. Please be informative. it would be nice to come to some sort of conclusion, even if Suzuki can't figure it out (or won't figure it out).

 

[Big C]

I have an 08 C109, on the second oil change with no problems. I turn up 4 bottles of Amsoil, I just don't let them drip empty. No problems. If you are putting 4qts or less in a bike that calls for 3.8 ( So .2 or 4oz's of a diference) and it's puking oil it's got a problem. Mine has never done it or I would be at the dealership. I planned on buying a M109 as well but all these tells of oil puking and people putting 3 - 3.5qts in a bike that calls for 3.8??? I said screw it and I bought a Warrior and never looked back.

 

[big69]

For me the only time i ever got a drip from the bottom of my air cleaner was two days after a 100+mile run at 85-110 the whole trip. I had parked the bike when i got home put the cover on it then two days later i was going to wash the bike. So i pulled the cover off did my checks on the floor for oils/gas turned the key to let the bike cycle rolled the bike out and started it let it run 5-10min then off i went. Taking it easy i headed to the wash pulled up in the bay checked to make sure the dip was secure thats when i saw the drop of oil. I then ran my hand under the air box and found some oil that was funny because i checked 10min ago so i sprayed the bike down then pulled it to the sun and wiped it down took it home and pulled the box there was a very small bit of oil like 3 drips. So i just do a quick check at stops but no probs.

 

[Beancounter]

Oil Puke

I have a 2006 M109 and have experienced the oil puke thing - right side, through the air filter. The dealer (Malcolm Smith Motorcycles) tells me it's OK to run at about 3/4 on the dipstick, and that that should solve the problem. I'm taking the word for it, but I don't like it - any more than I like the idea that the transmission clunks every time I shift up or down. Any ideas?

I'm about ready to trade over to a Yamaha full-dress cruiser.

 

[tranceman]

When I was on the phone with GMan, I asked about the bushing and the clunking noise. He said the 109's have a racing type transmission and the fact that they are almost 1800 cc's means you are going to have some clunking. Thats all I have on that one so far.:dontknow:

 

[The Piano Man]

Update on Puking

After getting my bike back from my dealer (for an oil pan issue) they cleaned out the air box and had me on my way.

I put about 180 miles on it yesterday and am happy to say that I had no oil puking issues. i did notice just a bit of oil overspray on my bags but I think it was leftover oil from the last "puking episode". No oil on the engine, none coming out of the air box.

I was really able to have some fun with it yesterday. I took it on 40 miles of real aggressive twisties and am now leaning it far enough to scrape the floorboards. I dont want to scrape the boards but I tell you, that bike can get around if you know how to handle it.

I'll keep everyone posted if anything happens next.

 

[lawr1000]

I had the same problems when I bought my bike, it was overfilled at the 600 mile service by the dealer. However, I was able to see with the 15/3 oil check that is was overfilled. I drained the oil (new filter too) and put 3600ml in and the oil level was correct.

Checking the oil is a PIA and consistency for my oil checks is far from acceptable. I can do a 15/3 oil check and occasionally read no oil on the dipstick. For my bike I tend to ride it for about 20 minutes, not hard, before performing the 15/3 oil check and this seems to help the consistency.

I have recently been performing a cold check, bike sitting overnight on the side stand, pull the dipstick and read the level (do not wipe and reinsert) every day this week. This continues to match the 15/3 reading I got after changing the oil last weekend. Interestingly I had problems doing this when my bike was younger. Often there would be no oil on the dipstick. So I plan on performing a lot of checks over the next few thousand miles to see all of this can remain consistent.

 

[Skip D]

Hey Lawr1000, I have a 08 109 RT and so far have not experienced any puking. I do all my own services. 3 oil changes so far. your idea of a cold check sounds like a awesome idea. I park mine in a garage every night. After I verify my oil level, I'll check it cold in the morning.....Seems like that level would be good.......
later on, Skip D

 

[funbuster19]

bought my 08 c109rt this spring, two hour ride home from the dealership, oil puked next day! They admitted to overfilling it, two air filters later, still pukes, and it seems to happen whenever the darn bike feels like puking, it does. The dealer was aware of the problem, so they were very careful when they refilled it, ... still puked. I love the bike, thoroughly, blew the doors off a mercedes on the way home last night, lol you know he was muttering to himself! I just have to accept the fact that I have to clean the left side of my bike frequently.

 

[lawr1000]

Hey Lawr1000, I have a 08 109 RT and so far have not experienced any puking. I do all my own services. 3 oil changes so far. your idea of a cold check sounds like a awesome idea. I park mine in a garage every night. After I verify my oil level, I'll check it cold in the morning.....Seems like that level would be good.......
later on, Skip D

I can't take credit for the cold oil check. Do a search for "cold oil check" and you find a bunch of information. I'll admit I have had some real trouble checking the oil especially the cold check. I seems as though the oil sometimes gets "caught" somewhere in the engine and won't register on the dipstick.

 

[Steve07]

This oil puke thing is really starting to tick me off, I am pretty anal about keeping the bike clean, and oil over the casing is not good enough, is there a fix for this ? :dontknow:

 

[lawr1000]

This oil puke thing is really starting to tick me off, I am pretty anal about keeping the bike clean, and oil over the casing is not good enough, is there a fix for this ? :dontknow:

The only fix I have heard of is putting a filter or catch on the breather tube. The only time mine puked was when I brought it home from the dealer and it was way overfilled. Here is a link to a recent discussion about this.

First though I would make sure the oil level is right, then check the air cleaners (left most likely). Oil can also get into air chamber sitting between the cylinders. You have to get all the oil cleaned up before it will stop dripping.

 

[godzuki]

OIL

When I got my 06 - in 2006, it was overfilled by the dealer, because they
failed to read proper oil fill and measuring proceedures!!! This wasn't a isolated incident to my dealer it was everywhere across the country!!! If
you drain thru both plugs, change filter and refill with 3 qts and 28 ozs. you will never have a problem, every case I've heard about was a direct
result of someone not following proceedure, never seen or heard of a 109
puking if the service was done correctly....pay attention and you'll be rewarded with a clean, well running bike...

good luck

 

[NeloAngelo]

I have a 08-C109r with 8400 miles and i never had any problem with the oil...i think that oil puking it's caused by oil overfill.
i have 5 friends with the same bike and no one have this problem.

 

[2UP]

Hi Guys

Ive got a 08 C109rt done 21,000km no problems with puking but my dealer is pretty fusy,

 

[PA1195]

Here's some general thoughts on the oil puking issue some have experienced. I can't offer a good fix for all cases.

1. Overfilling the crankcase. The Service Manual calls for a maximum of 3600 ml, or about three quarts plus 26 oz., for an oil and filter change. Less would be acceptable. We might try say 3400 ml, or three quarts plus 19 oz. Most oil cans now are are marked in both ml and oz. Try using less than maximum.

2. Oil viscosity may also have something to do with puking - 20W-50 may puke less than thinner viscosities - it works that way in aircraft engines in my experience. Try a thicker oil.

Edit: It may well be that this engine likes to shear oil more than some, and as a result, any oil used may experience a lowering of viscosity within the 3-4K of use mentioned. The oil molecules get "sheared" or cut by highly loaded components in the valve train and gearbox, and the high temp viscosity rating often drops one or more units as the usage miles increase. A 40W may end up as a 30W or lower nearing the regular oil change interval. Synthetic based oils are often less prone to such changes. Thin oils can allow more piston blowby and resultant loss through the breather system. Try a semi or full-synthetic oil.

3. Most quality motorcycle oils (and in general quality motor oils) contain anti-foaming agents, mainly silicone-based chemicals. They are present to reduce the formation of foam bubbles when in operation, and reduce the resultant overflow into the crankcase's breather system. If foaming occurs because of an inadequate additive package, then the best fix would be to try another oil. For example, some semi-synthetics sold by Exxon for aircraft use have been associated with foaming (and pressure irregularities) in high-duty piston helicopters, more so than other brands. Try a different brand of oil.

3. Once in the breather system, the expelled oil will continue to seep until it's removed from the airbox and associated plumbing. Maybe that's why Suzuki puts a capped drain hose on each airbox (for inspection purposes and draining?). The left box will puke more as it fills from the airbox more readily when sitting than the right due to frame tilting. Inspect the air cleaner drains frequently.

4. A over-pressurized crankcase can contribute to oil blow-by and puking. The abnormal pressure can come from the excessive leakage of combustion gasses past the piston rings on a new engine that's not properly broken-in, or on an engine with faulty, stuck, or worn piston rings. Unfortunately, due to the design of our engines utilizing decompression technology to aid in easy starts (via slight valve opening during starting), accurate assessment of compression is difficult by utilizing a standard compression gauge and cranking the engine. Suzuki gives a very wide range of acceptable compression pressures (128-256 PSI with the automatic decompression devices activated). No help there, the range is too wide to be of real value. What we need to do is apply air pressure through a calibrated leak-down compression tester as used on aircraft, and set standards for the resulting leakage past the piston rings. Unlikely to happen for most of us.

5. Some engine blow-by is expected and normal. The engine is designed (according to the Factory Service Manual) to ingest some oil fumes through the airbox and throttle bodies and burn them up. Too much oil clinging to the inside of the airbox and apparently it doesn't get consumed, and ends up filling the air cleaner assembly and filter, eventually leaking out. Reduce the blow-by or oil foaming and reduce the puking. If worn or poorly sealed piston rings are indeed the cause, then either a mechanical replacement or high engine-load run with hopes of sealing the rings is the only alternative in my opinion. Using a good non-foaming oil that maintains it's proper viscosity through the life of the oil is another.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[Acquitted]

12 years late to the party, but I'll add my experience here, might help someone.

A few years ago, I the night before I felt dor a 2k mile ride to Wisconsin, I used the dip stick to top off my oil. 100 miles in, I stopped for gas, and noticed oil had sprayed out on the left side and gotten everywhere. I freaked a little, 100 miles from home and I thought my engine had blown a major gasket.

Thankfully, I met a friendly biker at the rest stop who said that is common for oil to gush from the PVC tibe when the oil is overfilled, especially bikes like the C where the engine, clutch, and tranny all share the same juice. After visual confirmation that the oil was coming from the air filter and not from a critical joint, I kept on going. Eventually, the spraying stopped.

Since then, I've never trusted the dip stick. I religiously change the oil and filter every 3k miles, and add exactly 3600 mL each time. I don't even bother with the dip stick. I've never had the spraying issues since.

 

[StuporDave]

I have a 2007 M109R that had a little oil in the left air filter when I bought it used with 13,000 miles. I ride it kind of on the hard side and it would leave a quarter size oil spot wherever I parked it. Leaking from the left filter. I cleaned up the air box, installed Forcewinder intakes, installed a crankcase breather tank behind the ride side cover. Of course the oil in the breather stopped, but there is no oil being blown into the breather tank. SO, I don't know what that is about. But it works.

 

[M109Dreamer]

You basically made yourself a homemade catch-can. Several of us here, especially the earlier models have done something similar

I have a 2007 M109R that had a little oil in the left air filter when I bought it used with 13,000 miles. I ride it kind of on the hard side and it would leave a quarter size oil spot wherever I parked it. Leaking from the left filter. I cleaned up the air box, installed Forcewinder intakes, installed a crankcase breather tank behind the ride side cover. Of course the oil in the breather stopped, but there is no oil being blown into the breather tank. SO, I don't know what that is about. But it works.