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Hey gang I think this article qualifies as bike related since I've read some of you use GPS. This article was written by a biker/lawyer in my local area pretty good stuff enjoy and no flames! :joke:

Ask Tom
Beware. Your GPS may be collecting evidence against you.
By J. Thomas McGrath, Attorney

Beware. Your GPS may be collecting evidence against you. More and more motorcyclists today are using GPS (Global Positioning Systems) to plan trips, get directions, and keep track of miles traveled. However, keep in mind that, if you are in an accident, you may be collecting evidence that could be used against you in both a criminal and civil trial.

Many systems allow you to keep track of your speed. We at the law offices of Tom McGrath have come across jurisdictions which, at the scene of an accident when speed is a question, will seize a crash victim’s GPS, get a search warrant, and download the information pertaining to speed. As a matter of fact, that was currently done in federal court in a case along the Blue Ridge Parkway when a park ranger pulled in front of a motorcyclist whom the parkway ranger later claimed was speeding. That case is still in litigation.

Such action does more than subject the crash victim to a speeding ticket. It can, if the injured party was speeding, put their ability to collect damages for their injuries at risk. Virginia is a contributory negligence state. That means that if the party who injured you can show that you were in some way at fault in causing the accident, then your claim can be denied. Speed can be used as a contributing factor to deny an injury claim, even if the other party is more at fault than you.

Now keep in mind that I am in no way suggesting that you should not use a GPS on your motorcycle. I am merely suggesting that if you do, keep in mind that, depending on the system and how you use it, you could be collecting evidence that could eventually be used by the party that injures you to avoid paying for the injuries that they caused.

The preceding is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. Before attempting to settle any claim you should contact an attorney. The rules governing insurance coverage may be different in your state .

Tom McGrath is a personal injury lawyer with credentials that are rare in his profession. When Tom's not lawyering, he's lobbying to protect your rights, or crisscrossing the Commonwealth teaching motorists and motorcyclists about their rights, helping them to understand the insurance laws and how to protect themselves and their loved ones. Got a question? Send Tom an email at [email protected], or visit http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/.
 

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Yea Now Days they have NO problem Locking you up if they Want!!!

We had a write up in the local paper about the Truck-drivers and driving to fast and to long I was Surprised to read that a lot of the Company truck have GPS or On-star similar stuff that the company can tell how long that truck has been running how fast,and where it's at :eek: ,They can even shut the truck off from where they are,I also read that some of these new cars collect the same info, and that in some court cases they have pulled these Little box's to use against the driver :eek: :confused: and yes in some cases to support him! so you really have to watch what ya buy and get all the facts about the Automobile you purchase Later Silentrider
 

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If they take it at the scene BEFORE a search warrant isn't that wrong? They don't have your permission or a search warrant yet...
I don't know, I am uncomfortable with this for sure. I had read where rental companies (years ago in CT) were charging people allot of extra $$$ when the company found out the customer was speeding...

Of course I could put up with this if they would install something that shows the other driver was not looking while talking on the phone.....

Sledzep
 

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I guess I will be in trouble. My GPS lost signal and jumped around several times before locking in on a location. My max speed shows 2312 mph.
 

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Yeah, two things to use in your defense:

1. GPS speeds are completely inaccurate if the unit isn't getting a good signal from several sattelites. I don't think they track WHEN they hit that max speed, though some of the better units might. If they don't track how good the signal was at that time, you could probably use that as a defense and get the GPS thrown out as evidence.

2. If you are in a wreck, and don't want to worry about the GPS unit being used against you, get rid of it before law (ie. subpoena, etc)requires you to hang onto it.

If it's damaged in an accident, make sure it is claimed on the insurance, and documented that it is damaged, then throw it out and get a new one. Better yet, take it target shooting!
 

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If the hand-held GPS units are like the ones mounted in the remote-control locomotives I use at work, they are constantly updating the coordinates and are stored for reference for a certain time/distance so you can backtrack to where you've been. If so, I don't think it would take much effort to compare the speed to the spot that the accident occurred. Unless the GPS stays mounted on the bike when the impact occurs, the best defense may be "That's not mine" :D
 

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My Garmin does do tracking of routes and speed. But it only keeps a "max" speed. It doesn't record when you hit that max speed. But again, mine is an older unit so I have no clue what the newer ones are capable of. I'm sure there are some consumer units out there that will do it.
 

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My on board navigation system(wife),maintains speed by groin pressure. The faster you go,the more it hurts(works really well(for her). :bigthumbsup:
 

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i don't really know how to feel about that. i can definately see a downside to a victim whose gps is used against him. but, i can also see an advantage if the gps belongs to the perpetrator and is used against him. still, kinda feels like "big brother" watching.
 

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I'll clam transit issue with the recording system, it messed up.... ::) Prove it didn't :D :D :bigthumbsup:
 

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DFW_Warrior said:
My Garmin does do tracking of routes and speed. But it only keeps a "max" speed. It doesn't record when you hit that max speed. But again, mine is an older unit so I have no clue what the newer ones are capable of. I'm sure there are some consumer units out there that will do it.
Thats what I have too.... BUT internally there may be a way to correlate the time and speed. Who knows, I am not going to worry about it.

Speeding is speeding. If I was in the wrong and caused the accident, I was wrong in going that fast in that place.

Sledzep
 

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This sounds like a buncha crap to me. ::)

I've had GPS units in several of my cars, have a portable one in my new car and I have a smaller Garmin unit that I can mount to my handlebars. Yes though all of them measure speed and all of them can tell you what the maximum speed you reached was during your trip, none of them keep any type of history/time line of what your speed was at any given moment. What would be the purpose of that? ::)

There would be no useful information able to be downloaded from these devices after a crash, unless these things are recording data that is not accessible to the owner, which I would highly doubt. These aren't the black boxes that you find on airplanes for crying out loud! ::) :doorag:
 
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On a positive note: The way I understand it, with the advancements in technology, a father of a teenage driver can sit at home and, with his computer, tell exactly where his child is, how fast they're going, and actually shut down the vehicle.

I would think, if a kid was aware of this, their driving habits would improve.

Not to mention, that I, personally, feel "sure" that any electronic devise, used to monitor ANYTHING.....can and will be accessed if the "authorities" desire to do so.

I don't even use a compass.
 

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GPS is a tool that can be used in an investigation of a serious auto accident involving death or serious physical injury. Yes, the law enforcement agency in question would need a warrant to seize that evidence but I can tell you from first hand experience that the warrant is not hard to get and the vehicle in question would be impounded by the investigating agency until the warrant is obtained to gather said evidence. On another note, GPS is not necessary either since modern vehicles all have on board computer systems which can tell speed at impact and whether or not the occupants were wearing seatbelts at the time of the accident. It is similar to the black box on a plane and is present in all late model vehicles. (unknown if motorcycles posses this technology) Again a warrant is necessary to remove the black box from a vehicle and obtain that data but in a serious auto accident involving death or serious physical injury, that warrant will be issued and that information can and will be used in any court both criminal and civil. Here in NY like many states the information obtained from these devices have been used in many successful prosecutions. I guess it is good and bad depending on which side of the accident you fall under, victim or suspect.
 

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CherryFire said:
This sounds like a buncha crap to me. ::)

none of them keep any type of history/time line of what your speed was at any given moment. What would be the purpose of that? ::)

There would be no useful information able to be downloaded from these devices after a crash, unless these things are recording data that is not accessible to the owner, which I would highly doubt. These aren't the black boxes that you find on airplanes for crying out loud! ::) :doorag:
Cherry,

I have an very old Etrex, a several year old 76CS and a new Zumo 550, ALL of them track time and speed. I can attach each of them to my PC and overlay the tracks on a map program like Garmins own City Navigator or Googles Earth and place the cursor anywhere on the track(s) and it will give the exact time, course and Speed at any given place. I can tell how long I was at a stop light, in a store or at work, or how fast I entered a turn..... all of it is there. None of this can be accessed as far as I know from the unit it-self, but be sure it is all there.
I wish I had this stuff back when my X was running around on me, court would have turned out much differently. :verymad:

I hope this helps peeps to understand the capabilities available to us and THEM. I gotta wonder about GM's ONSTAR for the same reasons, be the motives good or bad.
 

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sledzep01 said:
If they take it at the scene BEFORE a search warrant isn't that wrong? They don't have your permission or a search warrant yet...
I don't know, I am uncomfortable with this for sure. I had read where rental companies (years ago in CT) were charging people allot of extra $$$ when the company found out the customer was speeding...

Of course I could put up with this if they would install something that shows the other driver was not looking while talking on the phone.....

Sledzep
Nope, "potention evidence" in a accident investigation, is a separate category that criminal evidence. That would be like saying the police could not measure your skid marks with out a warrant...

I know I said skid marks...
 

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Converted said:
Nope, "potention evidence" in a accident investigation, is a separate category that criminal evidence. That would be like saying the police could not measure your skid marks with out a warrant...

I know I said skid marks...
Ya did...ya did... :D..and it is a used way of determining the speed at an accident.....OR WAS ;)
and we were discussin this at work the other day....how do they measure skid marks on modern
cars.....ABS ??.....comments from the :cop: ?

As for the topic of this thread....I have a TomTom Rider and as far as I know (I might of missed sumthin)
there is no function on it...that I can go looksee how fast I went that day (yes I know some have) :bigthumbsup:
 
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