Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9
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Thread: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9

  1. #1
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    Default Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9

    Ok I am exited about this so here goes.

    My bike has had the clutch judder/rear wheel jump when releasing clutch and rattle at idle in clutch and harsh vibration on accel between 3000-4000rpm well I believe I have found the cause of all these.

    I have been talking with my local dealer about these problems and reading about the tube nut coming loose so yesterday I went to work myself and removed the clutch basket to check the tube nut well as I went in all was looking good and the tube nut was found to be tight.
    When I removed the clutch hub I noticed the the damper/torsion springs were so loose they had lost a lot of tention and were just flopping around in the holder.

    I knew then I had found what causes all the problems as listed above I thought what will I do as my bike was purchased in Feb 07 and only had 14500km on the clock and is still in warranty.
    I used a brass hammer and closed the retainer tabs as shown in the pic below to make the springs tight in there postion I know they have lost a lot of there lenght and that is something I have to talk to the dealer about.

    I reassembled the clutch using loctite on the tube nut and finished the job.
    Well I noticed the difference as soon as the bike started it ran so quite and today I went for a ride well this is a totally different bike there is no rattle in the clutch at idle or cruising along at any speed, The vibe/harshness when accel between 3000-4000rpm has totally gone the bike is so smooth right through the rev range it is a different bike.

    What is happening the springs loose tention and they become so loose in the holder this is the rattle at idle and the harsh/vibe on accel is the springs are not inline and it puts the clutch hub out of balance and the judder/wheel hop when releasing the clutch is when the springs get short and loose tention in the hub it is a rebound affect in the clutch hub bouncing back and forward in the clutch hub this is the whole problem we are all having in the drive on our bikes

    The springs in the clutch hub are to weak for the engine torque I will be talking with my local dealer next week don't know what he will say when I tell him I pulled the engine apart but this is the thing we have been all looking for
    I hope suz have built a stronger clutch hub or better springs. I was so exited when I rode my bike today it has changed the shift feel between gears

    If you want to check my theory just do a search for clutch damper springs or clutch torsion springs and read about there failure.



    I took this pic from another thread and if you look closely at the metal tabs that hold the springs in look how much gape there is between the spring and the metal tab this is why the springs are rattling around

    I have been reading on goggle about the damper/torsion springs and everything says if they break or loose tention they will cause judder and vibration here are a few that I found



    Symptom:
    Clutch chatters when engaging
    Possible diagnosis Likely solution
    Damper springs in the clutch disc hub or the marcel spring between the facings is fatigued Replace the clutch disc


    Symptom:
    Noise; clicking or rattling at idle RPM with the pedal released
    Possible diagnosis
    Likely solution
    weak spring(s) replace clutch hub








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  3. #2

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bluey I sure hope you have at last found the problem, after i was talking to you today, i went for a ride and my 07/07 does not have the harsh vibs at 3000/4000 that you mentioned, not YET at least, will i did'nt notice it at least.
    Like you said we need to swap bikes just to compare.
    You certainly were excited about your find when we talked. I'm surprised someone has not already noticed these weak springs. Then again most current repairs to the clutches are being done by Suzuki and they are'nt telling us any thing. Good find mate.
    I'll try to drop in tomorrow for a chat.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Yeah Rob I am postive I have found the problem and as I said to you I have to explain to the stealer what I have found that will be interesting for sure ::)

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  6. #4

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Good stuff Bluey ..it is certainly a noisey clutch in neutral (without the lever pulled)..good to see the reason for the rattle.

  7. #5
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    My bike has been playing up since about 1500km and been getting worse it would be nice to know if they have beefed up the clutch hub and springs

  8. #6
    M109Riders Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    That is great news. Good find and keep us posted.

  9. #7
    Very Active Member Bonzo666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    5 bucks says they say it was your fault

  10. #8
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bluey,

    Great find... My 9 is the same... but i have no manual yet and didnt want to pull it apart, and being that mine has been there since I rolled it out of the shop, I just thought it was the way of this beast.

    Might visit my local stealer on Monday and have a chat to him.

    TY again

    post mate

  11. #9
    Very Active Member BlkM109r's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Good find, I'll be bookmarking this one, to check with the nut when i get around to pulling mine apart.

  12. #10

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Good work. If Suzuki doesn't want a bunch of disgruntled owners, they should step up to the plate on this one.
    jer

  13. #11
    Very Active Member JUtah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Thanks for the info... gonna read up on this theory some more.

  14. #12
    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    this is a very good finde as I do have the rattle and the vibration I didnt notice it untill I wore my half helmet this summer then a fw days later the cable nib broke loose. I have a huge service coming up and either we will do it ourself or take it in, Im thinking we may pick away at it.

    so is all you done was tap the tabs in to hold the springs? are you going to order new springs or what? If we are going to dive into my 9 I may as well make a list for some stronger parts. I wonder if this would be a warranty thing? and if Suzuki will make a better version for warranty?

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  15. #13
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Good deal. I know I was considering going into mine once the snow flies to check the tube nut and loctite/punch it. I may have to check and tighten up this also.
    06 Blurple 9 delivered 3-28-07

  16. #14
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzo666
    5 bucks says they say it was your fault
    hey bonzo, i got 5 bucks says suzuki says that it's normal.


    awsome find bluey, looks like you got everyone excited here.
    2007 red zook 109r<br />2008 yamaha raider<br />2000 honda shadow vlx600<br />2005 red zook xl7<br />1998 zook quadrunner 500<br />1996 zook king quad 300

  17. #15
    Radio Active Member Zoom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Great find Bluey! I really hope this fixes that clutch knock at idle. Mine doesn't shudder, but the knocking annoys the heck out of me.

    Good thread for the How-To section too.






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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!


    That is a great find. What would be the best cure or fix for it? Aftermarket springs that are made better or stronger?

  19. #17
    Very Active Member Kev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RLS
    That is a great find. What would be the best cure or fix for it? Aftermarket springs that are made better or stronger?
    a brass hammer

  20. #18

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    MTC-CLUS252
    MTC HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH SPRINGS for the M109R- DLP

  21. #19
    M109Riders Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2pyrs
    MTC-CLUS252
    MTC HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH SPRINGS for the M109R- DLP
    Wrong springs.

  22. #20
    Very Active Member JUtah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    beat me to it...

  23. #21
    Very Active Member Canuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Hey Bluey,
    Nice work!
    I have a question, that may be totally wrong. If the vibration is due to those loose springs in the basket, why would a 109 vibrate between 3000 and 4000 even when brand new? The springs shouldn't be loose when brand new.
    Thoughts.

  24. #22
    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuk
    Hey Bluey,
    Nice work!
    I have a question, that may be totally wrong. If the vibration is due to those loose springs in the basket, why would a 109 vibrate between 3000 and 4000 even when brand new? The springs shouldn't be loose when brand new.
    Thoughts.
    hmm im thinking this is excessive vibe not the built in one. lol maybe this is the built in one LOL

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  25. #23
    M109Riders Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuk
    Hey Bluey,
    Nice work!
    I have a question, that may be totally wrong. If the vibration is due to those loose springs in the basket, why would a 109 vibrate between 3000 and 4000 even when brand new? The springs shouldn't be loose when brand new.
    Thoughts.
    This bike is pretty loose, even new. ::)

  26. #24
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Hey all I am glad to see everyone is exited as myself.

    Let me say I had the harsh Vibe from near new and a slight rattle at idle which got louder I believe the springs to be loose from new but they lost there tension as time went on.

    Yes this should be a warranty issue the springs are either faulty our just to soft for the power of this engine also you cant replace the springs alone they are part of the clutch hub so the whole hub will need to be replaced what I did by bending the tabs down against the spring yes did stop the springs from rattling around but it will get better if the hub is replaced with a new one hopfully with one that is better then the first one lets hope suz has done there home work and also found this weak point. Weak springs !!!

    I am so happy that this one thing contributes to so many problems most of us are having and it can be fixed and even if they wipe me of my warranty because I went in with out them doing the work I see the clutch hub is about $200USD which isn't to bad as long as they have upgraded the springs

    Again let me say don't let anyone tell you the rattle at idle and the vibe on accel is normal because this is a big V twin because that is far from the truth it can be fixed !!!!

    The whole job took about 3 hours and the moment you start her up you will notice the change in your engine

  27. #25
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    ATTA BOY! Good find & thanks for the info.

  28. #26
    Very Active Member SilverHorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    on the find, I will have to check this out


  29. #27

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Great work Bluey!

    Chuck

  30. #28
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Great find Bluey,best of luck at the dealers hope they have enough balls to own up to this one. Thanks for sharing for all 9 riders.


  31. #29
    Very Active Member Keifer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    YES!!!! Finally someone has found the problem.... I can't wait to tell my dealer to check this one out. Or maybe I should just do it myself and save the agony.

    Red IS the fastest color...

  32. #30
    DirtRacer
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike_109
    Bluey,

    Great find... My 9 is the same... but i have no manual yet and didnt want to pull it apart, and being that mine has been there since I rolled it out of the shop, I just thought it was the way of this beast.

    Might visit my local stealer on Monday and have a chat to him.

    TY again

    post mate
    keep us posted Bluey. Will ask my dealer Q's about this one.

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