Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9 - Page 3
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Thread: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9

  1. #61
    Very Active Member WAYNE109's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Hell SKIN im glad it was an OZZY !!! at least now they can get some credit for what has been bugging us since we have had these BIKES!!! I will be tearing into mine before the RHINO and let ya know whats up!

    SO WHERE IS THE NATURE OF THE BEAST NOW

    WELL DONE BLUEY!!!
    Life is what you make of it!

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Don't forget to update the incident report to list this one!!

  4. #63
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    This is the most important post I've read on this site thus far. I only wish someone could post a barnett part number on it now

    Thanks for all the hard work and info, Bluey

    - Semper Fi -
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  6. #64
    Very Active Member JUtah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebraska_Marine
    This is the most important post I've read on this site thus far. I only wish someone could post a barnett part number on it now

    Thanks for all the hard work and info, Bluey
    I spoke with a tech at Barnett and he said they have no current plans to make an aftermarket clutch pack for the 109... Of course that could change over time...

  7. #65
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Guys just so you stay in the picture here is the letter I have emailed and sent registered post to the head of Suzuki it maybe rambles on some what but how do you get this **** across with out being in there face

    "Attention Suzuki "

    I know this is a long email and I ask you to take the time to read it as I have taken the time to write it.

    Hi,
    I am writing to you about a problem with my M109R which I purchased on about the 23 Feb 2007 and currently have 14200km on the clock.
    I am a Auto Technician of over 29 years. I would like to tell you of the problem I have been having with my bike since I purchased it.
    Before I brought this bike I did much research into it and found a very informative internet forum which has members from around the globe. https://www.m109riders.com/forum/index.php

    It has a lot of info about this bike, good and bad and I knew before purchase there was a few issues that were raising problems but I thought they will be fixed by Suzuki so I purchased anyway because I wanted this bike.

    I read the forum and the things that happen with the bike very often and there are some major issues starting to show

    eg; broken drive shafts/ brake rotors getting loose/ tube nuts in the clutch becoming loose and causing problems there has been a number of riders in the USA that the back wheel has locked up and there has been injures.

    Now to my bike from the beginning as I rode down the street from the dealer on the first day I felt a harsh vibration from the engine on acceleration through all gears in the rev range 3000-4000rpm I have read and spoken to many M109R owners across the globe that say this is a normal feel on a BIG V twin cruiser and don't worry about it.
    I excepted this as normal then within 1500km I started hearing a loud rattle coming from the clutch area which have got louder to date. I spoke with my dealer and they said this was pretty normal as well, then things started to change, intermittently when releasing the clutch at traffic lights and taking off from anywhere from first gear there was a very loud shuddering/banging noise coming from the engine.

    I found that many owners were starting to complain about the same problem it didn't happen all the time but it was so bad when it did it you would automatically pull the clutch in and release again and then it would be fine.
    I could go a week and nothing would happen and then maybe 3 times in a day, a few mates said there's were doing it also and so many owners in the USA were asking the question to there dealers what's the problem with our bikes and everyone was getting the same answer Don't know what it is? and most times you can't get it to do the problem when you take the bikes into the dealers.

    I have spoken to my dealer on a number of times to get the same answer we don't know what it is and we haven't heard anything from Suzuki about a problem, the only reason I can put to that, is Suzuki doesn't want to admit they have a problem in the engine because it would be a major recall !
    and they don't want to spend the $$.

    Well let me say there are time when you are riding and you go to take off from a stand still and there is nothing but major clutch shudder and the bike isn't going anywhere and if you have got a car behind you and he is taking off from the lights one could get hit I and a few mates have been in this situation a number of times.

    I have read so many complaints from owners on the 109 forum about this same problem and to date no one including the dealers across the world want to put there hand up and say what the problem is.

    The latest thing is the tube nut coming loose well how many more life threatening things are going to go wrong with this bike??

    Being a auto tech myself I like to know how thing work so when I brought the bike I also purchased a workshop manual.

    So last Friday I made a decision to check the tube nut for myself because Suzuki doesn't seen to be going to issue a recall on this and it was to the stage that every time I went on my bike I was waiting for a engine/drive to fail and cause an accident.

    I went by the book and removed the pipes and right hand cover from the clutch side of the engine. I continued to dismantle the clutch to get to the tube nut when I removed the clutch hub I could not help but notice the torsion springs were so loose and rattling in the hub upon a closer look I could see the springs had lost there length with about 6mm gap at the end of the springs to the holder also the window tabs which hold the springs in were no where near the spring allowing the springs to nearly fall out of the holder plate.

    Straight away I knew I had found the problem that was causing so many gearbox issues eg; bad rattle at idle in neutral, harsh vibration on acceleration from 3000-4000rpm through all gears, and the big problem the severe shudder when releasing the clutch lever in first gear from a stand still.

    In one word I was so exited that I had found the problem M109 owners across the world have been complaining about for so long.

    To explain, when these springs become compressed and loose in the carrier they throw the clutch hub out of balance and this is the issue on acceleration and being this loose this is the reason this bike has such a loud rattle at idle in neutral and last but not lest when the springs get so compressed this is where the major shudder happens when releasing the clutch because the shortened springs allows the clutch to go into an oscillation in the drive line causing the loud noise that is heard.

    I believe the springs that have been fitted to the clutch hub assemble are either faulty from new or they are not strong enough for the engine torque and the weight of this bike. This is a issue that need attention and not just wiped under the rug as what seems to be happening unless Suzuki haven't found this is the problem yet and I am the first one to solve the weak hub spring issue?

    Back to my bike I went on to check the tube nut and found it to be tight and no problem I did remove it and apply a high strength loctite product.
    I then went back to the clutch hub and decided what to do I know I would not get one from my dealer and probably not even in Australia as there seems to be very little parts available anywhere for these bike and that's in the USA also.

    What I did was using a brass hammer I closed the spring window tab's which are above each torsion spring until the spring was held firm in the carriage. I know that this is a short term fix as the springs have lost a lot of length dew to them being compressed.
    I was happy that the springs did not rattle as before I reassemble the clutch and finished the job.

    Well the bike was sitting on my bike jack and I started it up and from the moment it fired I could tell it was a different sound I stood back and could not believe my ears the engine was so much quieter all ready. It was a rainy day and I didn't get to ride it till the next day on my way to work as I rode down the road I could tell straight away the bike felt totally different the engine was so smooth. After I had ridden a few km I pulled up at a turn and then I took off and accelerated through the gears bringing the bike up to the 3000-4000rpm range and the harsh Vibration had totally gone, even once I had got to town I was pulled up at many sets of lights I put the bike in neutral and even the rattle at idle had all but gone. I was very exited I love this bike and it is that much better now then before and it is an easy fix.

    I rode my bike for the next 2 days and put it through its paces and I could not feel any of the problems that I had before I pulled the clutch.

    So from what I have done it has just made a temporary fix and the springs are still compress so I know it can only get better then it is now. If Suzuki get there act together and supply a heavy duty clutch hub with springs that can last the distance.

    Today I went to my local dealer and told them what I had done (as per my letter) to you and they just looked into the air and said we don't get told anything and as far as they knew there was not a upgraded Clutch hub assemble.

    It was like getting bleed out of a stone, I know all well Suzuki will not want to admit there is a problem with the hub springs but hey the owners are the ones that brought your product so how about step up to the plate and address this weak link in the drive train.
    My dealer had a M109 in the workshop that they say the tube nut had come loose and I asked what the hub springs were like and they said the mechanic said they were very loose and asked the service manager what should be done with it and I was told they called Suzuki and they were told to just put it back together and see how it goes, Hey what's going on those springs are stuffed and they were fitted back into the engine. Not good enough !!!

    Let me say there is no point in just fitting a hub the same as what's in there already it needs to be a beefed up unit with stronger springs !!

    I believe I have explained what I have found to be the major problem with the M109R's clutch and I hope you will take the time to contact me in regard to this problem.

    I am a good ambassador for this bike and believe it to be the best I have owned and would like to be able to say there are no issues with it. Just recently my bike won the Best Japanese Cruiser at the Gold Coast Bike Week. As I have said I hope Suzuki will step up to the plate on this problem I don't want to have to go further with this to get something done, the media always seem to like these sort of stories. This is a safety issue also and I don't want to be the one laying on the road injured.

    So I ask you, please let me know what your intentions are to fix this problem.

    If you need any further information I would be happy to talk with you.

    Yours truly
    Doug Bazley

  8. #66
    Very Active Member Mntsnow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Awesome Bluey!
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    Respect turns into AWE with the twist of the Throttle!

  9. #67
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Just one thing if anyone wants to use my letter to give to your dealer our send it to Suzuki in your area please feel free to do so maybe the more we put this issue in there face the better we will all be.
    Bluey

  10. #68
    Very Active Member jazzman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Way to go Bluey. Now lets see if Zuk has an answer for ya

    Jazzman

  11. #69
    Very Active Member lostrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Well done Bluey...I would like to take the time to just say "thanks" to you. Ray

  12. #70
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Thanks guys, I have to say a few friends have said why worry about anyone else's bike and just fix your own. The way I look at it this is not just my problem and if we all pull together hopefully Suzuki will get behind this and fix the problem.

  13. #71
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bluey,

    I would like to thank you for your efforts. My 06 has this problem. I thought I was going crazy when this would happen. I've ridden bikes over 25 years and knew it could not be my clutching skills but could not figure out what the h-ll was going on. I will take you up on the offer to use you letter and share it with my Suzuki dealership.

    I can only hope that Suzuki steps up to the plate on this one. I have been loyal to the brand and owned mostly Suzuki's over the years. I enjoy the 9 but if these problems keep showing up.......? Would hate to have to consider selling this bike and switching brands.

    SUZUKI, LETS STEP UP AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR CUSTOMERS!!!!!!
    Ride it TO The Max!!!!!

  14. #72
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bluey,
    Again, thanks and good work. I shared this thread with a friend of mine who has done some drag racing and a lot of work on cars and bikes. I've been discussing my problems with my clutch with him, particularly, the shuddering. It's become almost impossible for me to pull away clean anymore when I'm on even the slightest uphill grade. The following was his response which goes along with what you've been saying, and the thread in general.

    " It makes sense to Me. But, bending the plates doesn't seem to Me to be the answer to the real issue. if the springs are inferior for the application, then a better hub assembly is the only true fix.
    I think a call to "Ed" is needed, so He is aware of your problem, symptoms. That way, if Suz sends out an alert to it's dealer's, Ed can get Your bike on the fix list, immediately.
    Meanwhile, I can tear it down and bend the plates if they need it, but, that is only hiding the real problem. More noise to dealers and Suz from You owners is a must!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It's a lot of work for a temporary fix, half assed fix at that."

    Ed that he talks about is the Suzuki dealer I bought my 109 from. I'm well out of warranty, but I'll take his advice and contact both Ed and Suzuki about the issues we've been experiencing.
    Jer


  15. #73
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Good stuff Bluey. THANK YOU!

    Call me cynical, but I don't think Suzuki is going to do anything about this at all.

    The clutch hub is $200 at bike bandit. If someone could come up with a fix... Like bend the tabs out, pull the springs, and replace them, re-bend the tabs back in place... But I don't know if that would destroy the tabs, or make them unsafe. Maybe cut the tabs out, and replace them with something else, drill and tap the hub to accept a replacement fixture of some kind to hold the springs in, and red locktite the crap of the screws you use to hold the fixture on with.

    How about machine out an X deep rectangle slot on the hub where the springs and tabs are (were). Make a plate X thick that fits flush in the slot you made. Cut the plate in the shape of an "I" in the center, and bend the "tabs" out to the proper angle. Drill and tap the hub to accept the removable "tab plate", and secure the tab plate with screws and lock-tite.

    Sell modded clutch hubs for $600 a piece at DLP.


  16. #74
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jerbear

    It's a lot of work for a temporary fix, half assed fix at that."
    Jer, mate as I said I know it is only a temporary fix this is why everyone of us need to be bombarding the dealers and Suzuki with this until they cough up and admit there is a problem with weak springs and come forward with a fix I hope they are reading this and pull there head out of the sand.

  17. #75
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!



    This Board has had a lot of "useful" purposes -- but THIS is where we should REALLY be able to exploit our strength of numbers.

    Bluey: What was the address that you sent your letter to?

    EVERYBODY on this forum who has had this clutch problem (I'm one too) SHOULD FEEL OBLIGED to send a similar letter to Suzuki so that they begin to realize that this is not an isolated problem, but rather something that they HAVE to address.

    Come on guys (and gals) let's make it happen.
    Repetition is the key to adult education.<br />Just because you&#039;re paranoid, doesn&#039;t mean that they&#039;re NOT out to get you.

  18. #76
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    I recommend anyone who takes their clutch apart look at the relationship between the washers #12 and #13 and plate # 6. My Cone style washer had ground a serious grove into the plate. This caused my clutch to be astonishingly grabby and unpredictable, usually accompanied by mild but horrifying screeching. To see if this was the problem I flipped the washer around backwards and the problem went away, but if we can get a recall on the clutch color me there. (Both of the nuts some have had issues with were fine on mine.) I'm not a clutch expert but I'm still not convinced those springs being loose is an issue. :read: As near as I can tell the purpose of these springs is to cushion the engagement a bit so big deal if they are loose. I'd think centrifugal force would keep them pressed against the outside so hard there's no way they should be noisy while it's spinning. Don't you think tightening them up will cause them to make unnecessary iron filings? They're still going to move it'll just be harder for them to do so. Any thoughts?
    Dave

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    awsome posts guys...

    just did a 700 mile trip and had the dredded clutch grab/shudder 2 times along the way. one of those times i pulled the clutch in 4 times before i could get going.. therre is something going on.. couldn't we get barnett to do a clutch for are machines like this one would be nice...
    For use on existing Scorpions with open primary or Scorpion Primary Cover •Direct-Bolt-on •Progressively increases pressure as •Easily adjustable by adding or subtracting weights on 6 pressure arms (supplied) •CNC machined, 6061-T6 billet aluminum. Perfect for large displacement, high horsepower motors!

    Barnett Scorpion Billet Clutches are the ultimate in performance for your American V-Twin! Whether your bike is stock or modified- street or strip- the Scorpion has what it takes to get the job done and look good doing it. These Scorpion Billet Clutches feature a 100% or more increase in clutch surface area (compared to stock) and include a CNC machined billet aluminum pressure plate, friction plates, steel plates, a steel inner hub, and additional sets of coil springs to allow you to tune your clutch to your needs. The Scorpion can also be run wet or dry in an open or enclosed primary.
    I will admit i dont know anything about clutches, but why cant we use something like these?

    Cowboy

  20. #78
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey
    Jer, mate as I said I know it is only a temporary fix this is why everyone of us need to be bombarding the dealers and Suzuki with this until they cough up and admit there is a problem with weak springs and come forward with a fix I hope they are reading this and pull there head out of the sand.
    I'm sure my friend, who is a great wrench, wasn't dissing you but only reiterating what you were saying. The real answer is an improved clutch hub from Suzuki, and the sooner the better.
    In fact, next rainy day (when we're not riding), he's going to go in and make the temp fix you did and then we'll hope Suzuki steps up and owns this one before someone is seriously injured. Again, great job at diagnosing the problem. I hope everyone on the board, like I'm going to, will copy your fix letter and your letter to Suzuki, and lay them on their dealers desk, and ask them to light a fire under Suzuki's butt.
    Otherwise, not only is Suzuki likely to get some awesome liability issues coming their way, but both Suz and their dealers will lose a normally very happy customer base. I'm going to ask my dealer and Suzuki to put something in writing assuring me that it's safe to continue riding with these clutch problems. It won't happen, but it might help convince them how concerned some of us are.
    Actually, I've already modified my riding and am seriously considering other brands with less trouble, but as of yet, I love my 109, and am sticking with it.
    Once more, kudos for offering some hope with this nagging problem.
    Jer
    Jer

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bluey,

    What is the email and I will also send something to them complaining

  22. #80
    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy casey
    awsome posts guys...

    just did a 700 mile trip and had the dredded clutch grab/shudder 2 times along the way. one of those times i pulled the clutch in 4 times before i could get going.. therre is something going on.. couldn't we get barnett to do a clutch for are machines like this one would be nice...
    For use on existing Scorpions with open primary or Scorpion Primary Cover Direct-Bolt-on Progressively increases pressure as Easily adjustable by adding or subtracting weights on 6 pressure arms (supplied) CNC machined, 6061-T6 billet aluminum. Perfect for large displacement, high horsepower motors!

    Barnett Scorpion Billet Clutches are the ultimate in performance for your American V-Twin! Whether your bike is stock or modified- street or strip- the Scorpion has what it takes to get the job done and look good doing it. These Scorpion Billet Clutches feature a 100% or more increase in clutch surface area (compared to stock) and include a CNC machined billet aluminum pressure plate, friction plates, steel plates, a steel inner hub, and additional sets of coil springs to allow you to tune your clutch to your needs. The Scorpion can also be run wet or dry in an open or enclosed primary.
    I will admit i dont know anything about clutches, but why cant we use something like these?

    Cowboy
    very good I sent this thread to Barnett and asked in the email if they have a part for our bikes and if they plan on making one? I hope they answer soon as i want to get all my parts ready for the winter. I have 5th service to do and I am excitted Hubby said we could do it. That means I have to get my list started and such. I would be ordering 2 of these as hubby has a 9 as well.

    Riders Meet 2018, Nakusp BC. Date ?
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  23. #81
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Dave I checked those washers also and I had no problems with mine ?
    You say the springs wont do anything when the engine has the centrifugal force holding them tight, Well first of all when the springs loose length by 6-7mm and they can move in the carriage its the same as a wheel weight on a wheel lets say you have a wheel that is in prefect balance and have 6 weights of the same amount around the wheel so it is still perfectly balanced and then move 3 around a small amount this will put the wheel out of balance. This is the same for the clutch hub. You know when you wheels are out of balance you get the vibration at a certain speed its the same for the clutch hub that speed is between 3000-4000rpm. And as for the rattle at idle I can tell it has change my engine again yesterday I rode my bike up the road to a mate say 3 km and didn't wear a helmet and I still can not believe how quite my bike is now and the only thing I have done is tighten the spring windows.

    I have ordered new crank case gasket and hub nut and when they arrive I will be dismantling the clutch again and attempt to fit heavier springs.

    This is the email address down here in Ozz where i sent mine I called them and they said send it to it
    [email protected]

    All I can say is since I have found this I have called 3 clutch experts and spoken to a guy that builds high performance HD and they all agree that this will cause all the things we are ex perincing. Also I have spent hours searching the net and if any of you have done the same you will see that broken or compressed springs will cause severe shudder and vibration and rattle I am happy with what I have found and cant wait to go in again and try to fit new springs I have priced a new hub and it is $350 so if I stuff mine up at lest its not to bad. I am still waiting on a reply from Suzuki will give it till next week and then call and send another.

    I know I am the only one that has done what I have done and maybe it is hard to believe this could cause all we talk about and I would be very happy for someone else to do the same as I and just bend the windows down to hold the springs and then see the difference. All I know is it totally got rid of the vibe 3000-4000 and the engine 99% quieter and as for the major shudder I have not had that happen to me again but this is the one thing that will possible happen again as the springs have the gap at the end and they can still rebound until it is fixed properly our replaced.




  24. #82
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PretentiousBastage
    Don't you think tightening them up will cause them to make unnecessary iron filings? They're still going to move it'll just be harder for them to do so. Any thoughts?
    Dave
    Dave when I looked my springs there were many bruises around the spring already I tightened them so the spring could just be turned with minimal force.

  25. #83
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Here is something else I have noticed, since I pulled with my clutch and got rid of the vibe between 3000-4000rpm
    the engine seems to rev more freely in saying that what do guys do when they want there race engine to rev fast and more freely yes they have the engine balanced. I have just got home from a fast ride with 18 sports bike and I still can't believe how sweet this engine rev's I have done just on 950km since I opened her and guys I have done 15478km in 7 month my bum is rarely off it so I can really tell there is such a big change to the whole engine feel I think it even pulls harder then when it had the harsh viberation.

    I love this bike even more now

  26. #84
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Guys i dropped in to see Bluey this afternoon just after his fast ride, he is still so excited about his new found bike. And rightly so. As soon as he started her up i to was amazed as to how much quieter the motor is, I have an 07/07 with only 1100Km on her and i can tell you my motor makes a lot more noise, now i'm depressed.
    Yes Blueys bike is obviously quieter than my almost newy, especially when listening to the that clutch rattle while idleing. Mine rattles, his is much much quieter. I do believe he has finally got this problem by the balls, now of course what to do. SUZUKI are you reading all this. What a bike this could be. We are going to swap bikes soon for a test ride.
    NOW I'M ALSO EXCITED.

  27. #85
    M109Riders Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey
    Jer, mate as I said I know it is only a temporary fix this is why everyone of us need to be bombarding the dealers and Suzuki with this until they cough up and admit there is a problem with weak springs and come forward with a fix I hope they are reading this and pull there head out of the sand.
    Hey Bro, sorry I missed your call the other day. ::) I was talking with James yesterday on my way back home and he's got a pretty good idea that we are going to try on my clutch while it's out of the bike. I'll let you know if it turns out to be a fix.

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Everyone,
    I sent this email off to Barnett to see what we could do...

    Barnett Tool & Engineering,
    >
    > My name is Casey Cooper, I own a 2006
    >M109R.. I am looking into replacing my clutch with
    >a spring conversion kit.. is there one already or
    >in the making? We are in dyer need of something
    >that works.. there are a lot of people that would
    >bye one now if you had them.. here is just a couple
    >of days people have been talking about this..
    >https://www.m109riders.com/forum/inde... /> >46.0.html
    >
    >Please can you help us..
    >
    >Thanks

    and this was there responce...

    Casey,
    At this time, we offer heavy duty clutch springs for the M109R. FYI- we also make throttle and clutch cables for this model.

    The design of the M109R clutch plates is different than the majority of other motorcycles. There is a steel plate or two that is a 'standard type', but for lack of a better description, the rest of the plates are the opposite of the norm. What would typically be the plain metal plates now have friction material on them and what is typically a friction plate is now a plain metal plate. The point is, in order to make this style of plates, we will need to design all new tooling at a considerable expense. Obviously, the demand has to outweigh the time and expense of the new tooling and R&D.

    At this time, there isn't enough of a demand to justify the cost. That is not to say that this won't change in the future. If Suzuki continues to use this clutch design, starts using it on other models, or if there is in general a reasonable aftermarket demand for them, we will look at producing them.

    Thank you for your interest in our products.

    Chris Taylor
    Barnett Tool & Eng.

    So are clutchs are differant than others, what now?

    Cowboy

  29. #87
    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Okanagan Valley B.C. Canada
    Posts
    6,295

    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    good letter and a great response fantastic we will be getting 2 of thier clutch cables for sure!

    well for now, it looks like the only thing we can do is tap in the tabs a bit.

    Riders Meet 2018, Nakusp BC. Date ?
    Planning stage. Location secured

  30. #88

    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy casey
    Everyone,
    I sent this email off to Barnett to see what we could do...

    Barnett Tool & Engineering,
    >
    > My name is Casey Cooper, I own a 2006
    >M109R.. I am looking into replacing my clutch with
    >a spring conversion kit.. is there one already or
    >in the making? We are in dyer need of something
    >that works.. there are a lot of people that would
    >bye one now if you had them.. here is just a couple
    >of days people have been talking about this..
    >https://www.m109riders.com/forum/inde... /> >46.0.html
    >
    >Please can you help us..
    >
    >Thanks

    and this was there responce...

    Casey,
    At this time, we offer heavy duty clutch springs for the M109R. FYI- we also make throttle and clutch cables for this model.

    The design of the M109R clutch plates is different than the majority of other motorcycles. There is a steel plate or two that is a 'standard type', but for lack of a better description, the rest of the plates are the opposite of the norm. What would typically be the plain metal plates now have friction material on them and what is typically a friction plate is now a plain metal plate. The point is, in order to make this style of plates, we will need to design all new tooling at a considerable expense. Obviously, the demand has to outweigh the time and expense of the new tooling and R&D.

    At this time, there isn't enough of a demand to justify the cost. That is not to say that this won't change in the future. If Suzuki continues to use this clutch design, starts using it on other models, or if there is in general a reasonable aftermarket demand for them, we will look at producing them.

    Thank you for your interest in our products.

    Chris Taylor
    Barnett Tool & Eng.

    So are clutchs are differant than others, what now?

    Cowboy
    Casey,
    Thanks for taking the time to write to Barnett, unfortunately they are referring to a completely different set of springs than the ones we need replaced. They are talking about the springs that keep the friction plates apart, we need the springs that are in the clutch hub, whole nuther set of springs bro.

  31. #89
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Cherryfire,

    See, thats why i said i didnt know much about clutches... didnt even know there were 2 sets of springs... Thanks for setting me strait... so do the plates being backwards or whatever make sense to you? Why would suzuki do it so differant? barnett said if there was alot of interest they would think about it... maybe we all should send them letters... but would everyone change them? i know i would but maybe not everyone...

    Cowboy

  32. #90

    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy casey
    Cherryfire,

    See, thats why i said i didnt know much about clutches... didnt even know there were 2 sets of springs... Thanks for setting me strait... so do the plates being backwards or whatever make sense to you? Why would suzuki do it so differant? barnett said if there was alot of interest they would think about it... maybe we all should send them letters... but would everyone change them? i know i would but maybe not everyone...

    Cowboy
    Hey Casey,
    No problem man, don't feel bad, I know it's confusing.
    It sounds like Barnett is just stating that the plates are different than other bikes but this is almost certainly not causing the issues we are having. It's the springs that are in the clutch HUB that are causing the issues we are having. DLP already sells the spring kit that Barnett was referring to, but it doesn't sound like they (or anyone else) is making the replacement clutch plates for our bike so I guess if we need a new clutch we can only order new OEM friction plates direct from Suzuki. The stronger springs that Barnett is referring to just keep the plates pressed together more firmly to avoid slipping during hard acceleration. They also would make it harder to pull in the clutch, because when you pull in the clutch lever what you are doing is compressing the springs that Barnett sells, and if they are stronger than stock then it will take more effort to compress them. Does that make sense to you? Hope this helps you to understand how a clutch works and what Barnett is telling you and how it doesn't really help us.

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