Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9 - Page 2
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Thread: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! Update 17/9

  1. #31
    Very Active Member rcj_houston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HPM109
    ATTA BOY! Good find & thanks for the info.
    Dittos to what he said!
    Hanging in a better place



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  3. #32
    Very Active Member Keifer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    How much gap should there be between the springs and the retainer flaps?

    Red IS the fastest color...

  4. #33
    Very Active Member LyteFly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by s.w.fl.m109r
    my clutch makes a little noise in nuetral,but has no other symptoms,should i be woried?
    Mine chatters in neutral with the clutch out as well. Pull in and it goes away. I don't have any other problems. I have actually heard this on other brands as well. Is the really a problem? I would also expect that there is no upgraded hub at this time.
    M109R - Ride of a Lifetime

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  6. #34

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    This is awesome news Bluey!! Great job mate!!

    I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread to see if there is a final solution offered by Suzuki and to see if they will be offering a fix. The clutch on this bike is one of the bikes very few weaknesses. Thanks again! :read:

  7. #35
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    First, thanks for all the good feed back guys
    You don't know how exited I am about finding this, last night I saw every hour go by on the clock just could not sleep just because I am thinking about what the dealer will say to my find and also I am so happy this bike is even better then before

    Will they now admit this is the weak link and yes we have upgraded the springs in the clutch hub or will they say stuffed if I know we haven't seen any problem let me say I will be going all the way with this because I know with what I have done to mine which is just a temporary repair until a heavy duty hub is produced it has fixed so many gearbox/clutch related problems.

    Guys it is 7.30 on sunday night and I have just got home and I have to say this bike is a different bike to ride it is so smooth through the entire rev range I just cant believe how good it feels never since I have owned this bike has it felt this good and I am not exaggerating at all with what I have done it has put balance into the engine that wasn't there before.

    Hey will someone please tell me to shut up if I am raving on to much ::) I just cant say enough about the difference this has made to my bike.

    Ok tomorrow is Monday and I will be off to the dealer to explain my find, I have to say I am a bit worried that they will say, "oh well you have just voided your warranty" wont that be a nice how do you do. its not that I don't know what I am doing I was a mechanic for close on 30 years I will let you know how it goes.

    All I want is upgraded clutch hub and a side cover gasket and a new nut and I will be happy is that to much to ask


  8. #36
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keifer
    How much gap should there be between the springs and the retainer flaps?
    I hammered the flaps down so they were hard against the spring I have done many clutchs in cars and when you see the damper spings compressed and loose in the holder they are ready for the rubbish bin !

  9. #37
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LyteFly
    Mine chatters in neutral with the clutch out as well. Pull in and it goes away. I don't have any other problems. I have actually heard this on other brands as well. Is the really a problem? I would also expect that there is no upgraded hub at this time.
    You ask is this really a problem? Yes it is, the springs will continue to compress and will eventually break and fall out of the holder and this will be a real problem.

  10. #38
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    i hate to have the only negative comment but i just replaced the clutch in a customers bike, hub, basket, plates, everything, and the new hub rattles just as bad as the old one did. i agree that the springs seem too loose and are responsible for extra noise but a new hub won't help and suzuki won't care.
    <br />[img]

  11. #39
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Ok can you tell me were the springs in the new clutch hub loose and did they rattle in the holders before you put it in the bike from new if so they have not fixed or updated the hub yet.

    I know that what I have done has changed the bike and fixed the problems I have mentioned so maybe they have not done anything to the hub at all

  12. #40
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    yes, the springs on the new hub are loose and the hub i replaced only had 960 miles on it and they were loose. i recently took my clutch apart with 7500 miles and my hub springs were just as loose. the springs are not getting weaker, they are just loose to start off with.
    <br />[img]

  13. #41
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey
    Ok can you tell me were the springs in the new clutch hub loose and did they rattle in the holders before you put it in the bike from new if so they have not fixed or updated the hub yet.

    I know that what I have done has changed the bike and fixed the problems I have mentioned so maybe they have not done anything to the hub at all

    I can't see them just changing the hub...odds are they are not looking to solve this problem. I think if they came across the solution, not only would they have upgraded the hub, but you would hear about it one way or another.

    I think it's an awesome find, but based on them not fixing the nut issue as a recall...makes me believe that they will do the same with this. I really really hope I'm wrong though.

  14. #42
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 109RS
    yes, the springs on the new hub are loose and the hub i replaced only had 960 miles on it and they were loose. i recently took my clutch apart with 7500 miles and my hub springs were just as loose. the springs are not getting weaker, they are just loose to start off with.
    Well from that it sound like they are not being assembled right take a look at any clutch plate from new and the springs are allways tight if they have not made any changes to the hub I will maybe look for a clutch manfacture to dismantle my hab and fit heavyer springs but I will see what the dealer comes up with first.

  15. #43
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!



    I can't see them just changing the hub...odds are they are not looking to solve this problem. I think if they came across the solution, not only would they have upgraded the hub, but you would hear about it one way or another.

    I think it's an awesome find, but based on them not fixing the nut issue as a recall...makes me believe that they will do the same with this. I really really hope I'm wrong though.
    [/quote]

    I know that I have fixed the problem and will be pushing very hard to talk with someone further up the food chain at Suz

  16. #44
    Very Active Member jazzman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Way to go Bluey!

    About a year ago I wrote a long disertation theroizing that the clutch springs were too loose setting up an oscillation in the drive line. I thought people thought I was nuts at the time. You applied the elbow grease to show the evidence. Now if we can just get Suzuki to pay some attention to the problem and fix it.

    Jazzman

  17. #45
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Jazzman the words "oscillation in the drive line" is right on it is midnight downunder and I am so hell bent on this I have spent hours resreaching the springs I speak of and every where I look the symptoms we are all having is a failure of the hub springs and as you say it will come down to what the Suz guys say

  18. #46
    Very Active Member jazzman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey
    Jazzman the words "oscillation in the drive line" is right on it is midnight downunder and I am so hell bent on this I have spent hours resreaching the springs I speak of and every where I look the symptoms we are all having is a failure of the hub springs and as you say it will come down to what the Suz guys say
    Thanks for all your hard work on this Bluey.

    Jazzman

  19. #47
    Very Active Member **CENSORED**'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Hey Doug, good find. Are the springs too short or is the diameter too small? Can they be shimmed?...Jason

  20. #48
    Very Active Member fe428's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    on the detective work Bluey.

    A couple of questions:

    Can we retrofit new hd springs into the stock clutch hub or does this have to be done when it's manufactured?? If they are loose from the git go then a longer spring is in order??

    If Zuk doesn't step up to the plate this could be a good opportunity for a performance product. Our entrepreneurial friends should jump on this one. The small privateer could solve this quicker than Zuk can scratch their A ss, er... head.

    I have 1k mi. on my bike with no symptoms so far. Knock on wood.

    I wish you well with Suzuki and your dealership stealership.

    Way to go on the find. Good on you!
    Retired Navy, now just a sand-crab bum with a 2006 FJR - Wave Galfer front rotors, Cee Bailey's windscreen, power commander III . Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.

  21. #49
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by **CENSORED**
    Hey Doug, good find. Are the springs too short or is the diameter too small? Can they be shimmed?...Jason
    Hi Jason, mate the springs has compressed and are now to short and there is nothing you can do with them at this stage if suz says get stuffed the next step is to go to a clutch specielest and see if they can dismantle the hub and fit heavyer springs that is really all that is needed.

    It is 6.00am monday and another night has gone by with out sleep I hope I get the answer I am looking for at the dealer today

  22. #50

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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bluey, Let me say as well good job.

    I haven't had this problem but my bike has a couple of the known ones (loose rotor, hub nut loose) and I expect this too may be on the way. New model bugs I guess.

    It is nice to know how to fix and what is wrong once you experience the problem. A lot less worry.

    I am glad there are guys like you finding out this stuff cause I love my bike and want to get some good use out of it.

  23. #51
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!! "Updated"

    Ok well after another sleepless night I went to the dealer today yes this is pretty much what I got

    I told the service department what I had found and done and they said I would be better off talking to Suzuki tech and head office well all I got there was don't tell me write down what you want to say and send a email so OK I have just finished that and sent it.

    Ok back to the dealer, hows this a mates bike a 9 has been in there for near a month and the said they found it had a loose hub nut he had all the symptoms I have and many of you.

    I asked could I see the clutch hub and I was told it was back together ::) I then asked did the mechanic notice any problem with the hub springs and the guys said yes the Mechanic showed the office staff how loose the hub springs were and thought it should be replaced so they called Suzuki and were told yeah just refit it and see how it goes so they put the loose arse hub back in I just said I couldn't believe this **** and went on my way.

    I found a couple of High performance clutch manufacture in my close city and called them I explained what I had found and both guys agree I was right on with my theory and could not believe this was not being fixed by the dealers
    Both these guys built HP car clutches but after speaking to them they were both happy to take a look at the clutch hub and try to fit heavier springs which I am happy about.

    So after that I have just finished a very informative email to Suzuki's head office in Australia so I purpose the next step is to see if they have the decency to reply with the intentions on this problem

    I am sure that if they don't address this problem I will take it further but will also attempt to do the repairs myself
    I will keep you informed as to what happens from here

    God I am glad I didn't take that $5 bet hahahaha

  24. #52
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    no funny weird noises on my rig yet , fingers crossed

  25. #53
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    absolutely nothing in your response surprises me Bluey. typical big corporate "ignore it until it becomes a legal issue or enough bad PR" attitude..

    I'll probably wait on your investigations into third party clutch turns up. I don't expect Suzuki to do too much unless someone is killed with clutch problems that can be explicitly blamed on spring failure..... ::)

  26. #54
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    at least you found someone willling to put new springs in
    <br />[img]

  27. #55
    Very Active Member jazzman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Thanks for taking the bullet for a lot of us on this one. Please keep us posted on what the clutch guys try and do with your hub springs. I'm real interested in that because it might be the only route we have to go for a while.

    Jazzman

  28. #56
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    I appreciate the push you are trying to get this fixed by Suz. Maybe this should be stickied!

  29. #57
    Very Active Member skindiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Bud.. I think you have it nailed.

    I suggested a couple of weeks back that the busted swing arms are fatiguing due to a vibration that some feel is uncharacteristic over 3500 RPM.
    Bob 109 ( i think is the right name) postulated that the driveshaft may be hammering back and forth because of play on the shaft locating ends.
    Your "loose clutch springs" - could in my mind - be the origin of the vibration that i accuse of possibly busting swing arms. (Multiply the vibration over the lever arm of the drive tube and see where it breaks from fatigue.)

    Skin.

    Skin deep.

  30. #58
    M109Riders Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    I helped build the "WFV" and at the time we had a sponsorship for clutch parts from Barnett. We tried just about everything you could think of to get more grab from the clutch seeing we were blown and running juice. Barnett sent us every clutch part they made that would fit that basket. We wound up not running the juice because we had a hard time with the clutch holding.

    One thing we did that didn't work that great was to get rid of the stock dampaner plate all together and replace it with 3 more disks, two steel and one friction. Honda has a little different dampner plate that sits in the basket just like the friction plates. The problem we had was that sometimes the clutch would let out fine but other times you would get the same bucking that we are getting on the 9 now. I think a tuneup on that plate or even a replacement will be in order on the 9.


  31. #59
    Very Active Member steve j's Avatar
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    I guess I should have thought of that one a long time ago. I broke one of those in my old Z1-900 Kaw and it does just what you described I just never have heard it on my 9 or any elses yet. Good going Bluey.

  32. #60
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    Default Re: Found Clutch Judder/rattle !!!!

    Nice job Bluey.....Now SUZUKI, step up and fix our bikes now....seems the owner's are doing all the hard work figuring out what is wrong with these machines now all we need from you, SUZUKI, is to fix them....

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