O/T Will this plane fly
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  1. #1
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    Default O/T Will this plane fly

    Taken from another forum I use, this poser was put forward and argued with incredible conviction from 5 angles or more, to reach either of two possible answers.
    It's a pretty simple question but had some brilliant rows about all sorts of things going on to justify the answers.
    I'd love to see how m109riders.com members answers it




    Imagine a plane is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor belt/travelator type arrangement, as wide and as long as a runway, and intends to take off. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation.
    There is no wind.
    Can the plane take off?
    DON'T ARGUE WITH DUMB PEOPLE, THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

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    Very Active Member 03svtsnakevert's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby
    Taken from another forum I use, this poser was put forward and argued with incredible conviction from 5 angles or more, to reach either of two possible answers.
    It's a pretty simple question but had some brilliant rows about all sorts of things going on to justify the answers.
    I'd love to see how m109riders.com members answers it




    Imagine a plane is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor belt/travelator type arrangement, as wide and as long as a runway, and intends to take off. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation.
    There is no wind.
    Can the plane take off?
    no, because there is no lift
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  4. #3
    Very Active Member Woody109's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    no, because there is no lift


    Unless of course the conveyer belt is outside in a huricane and the wind is in the right direction. Then of course the conveyer is irrelevant.


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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Sorry
    I believe the answer is yes.

    If the plane was driven by it's wheels, when they turned the belt would counter that. That is a given.

    BUT, and I am not scientist (but I do watch them on TV...)

    Since the plane is pushed forward by thrust from it's engines (prop or jet) what happens with the wheels does not matter as much.
    as the plane moved forward the wheels would turn, a given,(the bottom of the wheels are turning towards the rear, so the belt it moving forward) then the belt turns in the opposite direction, as you state, so now the plane is moving forward
    and the wheels are staying still, but the belt is now matching the planes forward speed so there is no EXTRA drag from the wheels.
    Since the plane is moving, air is rushing by creating lift.


    At the end of the runway
    the plane is going 200mph
    the wheels are moving forward at 200mph (but not rotating)
    The belt is moving forward at 200 mph
    Sled is in first class with a double vodka Bloody Mary pinching the stewardess's @$$

    Next question please


    Sledzep

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    Very Active Member Woody109's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    moving in the opposite direction of rotation
    Ahhhh, I missed that part. That would mean the plane is moving forward creating lift . So I agree with SledzZep. My eyes have been opened.


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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by sledzep01
    ...Sled is in first class with a double vodka Bloody Mary pinching the stewardess's @$$
    Next question please
    Sledzep
    But going nowhere fast since there is no lift. Enjoy pinching her azz, cause thats all the memories you'll have from this trip.

    No lift, no take off. The speed of the conveyor belt doesn't matter.

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    with Sled! no movement of air over wing no lift. You must have a given amount of air passing the planes wings for lift to occur. Good going Sled!

    Chuck

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Well, this is a trick question since we have no idea what is keeping the plane in place since airplane wheels are not driven. Otherwise, a giant invisible hand must hold it or it would move backward with the belt and fall off the end.
    If you assume the wheels are somehow magically driven, and chain drive PTO system for example that weighs nothing (all that gear might make the take off speed much higher), then the only wind would be that created by the belt rushing by and dragging air with it. Since it would be very low, and disappear at wing height or slightly above, the best you could hope for would be a slight hopping motion.
    No mention of the engine being run in the plane. Assume it is a single prop driven and running at the highest RPM. The prop wash would provide some lift to the area directly behind the prop, mostly the fusilage. Not enough to fly or the plane would magically rise in normal use at full RPM and the brakes on as in preparing for take off. Ditto for 2, 3, 4 or more engines.
    The only way planes fly is if the forward motion is high enough for the wing lift to overcome the weight and drag. Unless it is a jet or rocket which can fly straight up.
    A man has got to know his limitations... Harry Callahan

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by CBR1000DUDE
    Well, this is a trick question since we have no idea what is keeping the plane in place since airplane wheels are not driven. Otherwise, a giant invisible hand must hold it or it would move backward with the belt and fall off the end.
    If you assume the wheels are somehow magically driven, and chain drive PTO system for example that weighs nothing (all that gear might make the take off speed much higher), then the only wind would be that created by the belt rushing by and dragging air with it. Since it would be very low, and disappear at wing height or slightly above, the best you could hope for would be a slight hopping motion.
    No mention of the engine being run in the plane. Assume it is a single prop driven and running at the highest RPM. The prop wash would provide some lift to the area directly behind the prop, mostly the fusilage. Not enough to fly or the plane would magically rise in normal use at full RPM and the brakes on as in preparing for take off. Ditto for 2, 3, 4 or more engines.
    The only way planes fly is if the forward motion is high enough for the wing lift to overcome the weight and drag. Unless it is a jet or rocket which can fly straight up.
    this is correct...plane no fly...just as I stated in my 1st post
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    W/cbr1000dude! My drink of choice is bloody mary,too.Nary a hangover,almost Good for ya'!!
    07 BLACK M109R+Zuk' tourig wndshld,smll bckrst,gel seats,ISO's,Metz 130/260 TRADED FOR YAMAHA STRATOLINER S 9/04/07

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    Very Active Member SilverHorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Assuming there is thrust. Any forward roll of the wheels is counter acted by the belt moving in the opposite direction. Therefore, no matter how fast the the assumed forward motion is, the conveyor matches it in the opposite direction. No air speed. Impossible to have lift, prop or jet.


  14. #12

    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    I agree with CBRDUDE1000. If the plane is not moving forward there is no lift and the plane won't fly. Like me running on my treadmill. I may run 3 or more miles but I'm not going anywhere.

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    i believe cbr1000 is on the right track. he's right that the wheels on a plane intending to take-off are not powered. if you look at the question a little closer, then the answer is already there. it's like the fan on a skate board blowing into a sail. it looks good in a cartoon but would never actually work. opposing forces will cancel each other in exact proportions. that's the part of the question designed to confuse us. so if you imagine the plane starting to roll on the wheels and the belt doing the opposite, then you can imagine the plane sitting still. but, in reality, the wheels aren't moving the plane; the engines are. if the engines are powered for take-off, then the speed of the wheels don't matter. without a seperate force holding the plane, it will move. you'd have to imagine the wheels moving freely of the speed of the plane; wich is possible since they are independent and unpowered. so, with the wheels moving much faster than the plane; and the belt matching that speed; the plane itself would move slower than the wheels but still fast enough to take-off.

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly


    yes

    LG
    .

  17. #15
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by walker
    i believe cbr1000 is on the right track. he's right that the wheels on a plane intending to take-off are not powered. if you look at the question a little closer, then the answer is already there. it's like the fan on a skate board blowing into a sail. it looks good in a cartoon but would never actually work. opposing forces will cancel each other in exact proportions. that's the part of the question designed to confuse us. so if you imagine the plane starting to roll on the wheels and the belt doing the opposite, then you can imagine the plane sitting still. but, in reality, the wheels aren't moving the plane; the engines are. if the engines are powered for take-off, then the speed of the wheels don't matter. without a seperate force holding the plane, it will move. you'd have to imagine the wheels moving freely of the speed of the plane; wich is possible since they are independent and unpowered. so, with the wheels moving much faster than the plane; and the belt matching that speed; the plane itself would move slower than the wheels but still fast enough to take-off.
    Imagine looking at the wheels on a plane as it is taking off. Now imagine the direction of the belt going in the opposite direction. Isn't the direction of the belt causing the plane to move forward also? Creating lift as the plane moves forward thus causing the plane to take off.


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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody019
    Imagine looking at the wheels on a plane as it is taking off. Now imagine the direction of the belt going in the opposite direction. Isn't the direction of the belt causing the plane to move forward also? Creating lift as the plane moves forward thus causing the plane to take off.
    nope
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    Very Active Member Alien109's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Do not like planes I will ride my Beast if I wanna go some place

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    DON'T ARGUE WITH DUMB PEOPLE, THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

  21. #19
    Very Active Member Woody109's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by 03svtsnakevert
    nope

    Tounge out making a flapping making that motor boat sound.


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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby
    Pretty cool!! This is probably the first time in my life that I've ever been wrong.

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by ppridgen1
    I normally hate to be rude but you must be bored outta your mind,.....you make the most idiotic posts sometimes....go ride or something and quit clogging the board.....sorry if I offended but I feel better now
    And you busted biker-chicky's chops for her post!! No the plane won't fly!!!! No lift!

  24. #22
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    So if an AIRCRAFT CARRIER was moving in the opposite direction as to which the jets were takin off they would drop in the seaSo tell me how come JET CARS CANT DO BURN OUTS?? cos s they used thrust duh!!!to move them forward!! the jet engine does not work thru some fancy gearbox to the wheels.

    hope ya all knew that one!!!

    when an aircraft is in taxi on the runway its moved along by thrust............wheels have brakes to aid turning, but cant help in forward or rearward motion!!
    Life is what you make of it!

  25. #23
    Very Active Member WAYNE109's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    so when i put a jet ENGINE IN MY cars ass then thatS a JET CAR........MOVING FORWARD BY MEANS OF THRUST!!!no gearbox, front wheels for steering rear wheels for keeping jet fron dragging on th ground.
    Life is what you make of it!

  26. #24
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Well my first thoughts were....it will not fly....but then again if ya put a wheel driven vehicle
    on the most slippery flat ice ya can find and add a bit of washin up liquid....it ain't a goin no
    where....BUT the plane will...well thats my way of lookin at it

    BTW ppridgen...quote:

    "sometimes it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than it is to open ones mouth and remove all doubts..... and rember silence is golden

    practice what ya preach man...thanks

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Build the F'n cvbelt,put your f'n jet on it,spin em up,SEE what happens!!! WHO GIVES A SH*T?!? All I know is wings privide lift, & if the d8ckhead plane IS NOT MOVING,WHERE is the lift coming from!?! BUILD a FREAKING MODEL of this ''problem'' & show us the plane takes off!!SHEEEESH!!!!
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  28. #26

    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzdad24
    And you busted biker-chicky's chops for her post!! No the plane won't fly!!!! No lift!
    What does Perry have to do with this thread? Nothing! Ricky Bobby started it. ::) ::) ::)

  29. #27
    Very Active Member Kev's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by zookmon
    Build the F'n cvbelt,put your f'n jet on it,spin em up,SEE what happens!!! WHO GIVES A SH*T?!? All I know is wings privide lift, & if the d8ckhead plane IS NOT MOVING,WHERE is the lift coming from!?! BUILD a FREAKING MODEL of this ''problem'' & show us the plane takes off!!SHEEEESH!!!!

    Sounds like job for the MYTHBUSTERS...HAHAAAAA

  30. #28

    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by zookmon
    Build the F'n cvbelt,put your f'n jet on it,spin em up,SEE what happens!!! WHO GIVES A SH*T?!? All I know is wings privide lift, & if the d8ckhead plane IS NOT MOVING,WHERE is the lift coming from!?! BUILD a FREAKING MODEL of this ''problem'' & show us the plane takes off!!SHEEEESH!!!!
    Your problem is that you are assuming the plane is not moving because of what the wheels are doing. The plane will still move forward just as quickly with the ground rolling by in the opposite direction at 5 times the planes speed as it will with solid ground. ::)

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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    BC,I concede there MAY be an aspect to this I'm not grasping.BUT,if as soon as the wheels start rolling forward,the belt turns opposite,how can forward progress be accomplished ?
    07 BLACK M109R+Zuk' tourig wndshld,smll bckrst,gel seats,ISO's,Metz 130/260 TRADED FOR YAMAHA STRATOLINER S 9/04/07

  32. #30
    Very Active Member Kev's Avatar
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    Default Re: O/T Will this plane fly

    Quote Originally Posted by zookmon
    BC,I concede there MAY be an aspect to this I'm not grasping.BUT,if as soon as the wheels start rolling forward,the belt turns opposite,how can forward progress be accomplished ?

    Hahahaaa...this is one those mind benders

    The forward progress is the prop/jet...nuthin to do with the wheels....I think

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