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Thread: Beware of Suzuki

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    While the Aftermarket Performance Industry always jumps at the chance to play the "Magnusson-Moss Card" while selling their parts, they will not be there for you when a problem crops up. And Suzuki/GM/Ford/Honda, etc. can deny warranty coverage and regardless of what "M/M" says it ends up being the consumer's responsibility to prove the damage could not have been caused by the aftermarket piece, this is hugely expensive to fight. An individual, or even a single dealer has little recourse when a warranty repair is denied. The manufacturers have a huge cache of high profile lawyers & deep pockets to back up their claims. On the face of it, Magnusson-Moss appears to be a modder's best friend, but it has been ignored by the manufacturers, unenforced by the courts, and basically worthless in most cases. It's frustrating for all of us. If you want to mod go for it just don't expect anyone to be on your side if problems arise. Good luck.
    &#39;06 Jeep GC SRT-8, &#39;06 Honda Odyssey EX-L, &#39;06 Element EX-P, &#39;03 H2, &#39;03 Blue Z06, &#39;01 Miata SE, &#39;99 Boxster, &#39;70 SuperBee 440 6Pk&nbsp; 4-Speed<br /><br />&#39;07 Red M109R, Iso Grips w/Throttle Boss, ISO Wings, Sportech 14&quot; Shield, Roadburner Road Pro&#39;s Chrome w/SLT, Corbin Saddle, Shaved, JSD 3M, HID Headlight...

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  3. #32
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    the failure isn't in the generating the error codes. the bike is supposed to work like that. in fact, you can buy a 17 dollar part to plug in and see the error code you generated on the tach. the failure is in the unit's inability to return to stock mode from failsafe mode by clearing the codes out...my ecu won't do that, it's defective.
    Current Mods: JR exhaust w/crank evac, Oak Paint, Thunder intakes, PC3, JSD, steel brakelines, hub plate, stealth LCD F & R turns, TrickFlasher, CA clear tailight w/modulator, PIAA HLight w/modulator, ISO grips/spikes/wings/shifter/thottleboss, Pro-1 mirrors, Corbin seat, chrome engine/shaft/swingarm covers

  4. #33
    HalGreenlee
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by ppridgen1
    read the act
    http://www.sportrider.com/features/1..._warranty_act/


    In addition—and this is an important aspect of the law—to flatly deny warranty coverage the manufacturer must prove that you have done something to cause the problem. It’s not up to you to prove that you have not. It’s two different things to have the service writer say you’re at fault and to have a large manufacturing concern go on record that you did the deed. Unless there are significant cases already on the books and the manufacturer can produce a genuine engineering study indicating that, say, your combination of pipe and chip will cause engine damage, you still have a strong argument.

    Well i be damned.....say's it right there almost verbatum
    So I guess Mr. Phaed just needs to fax that article to Suzuki and this whole thing is resolved. LOL.

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  6. #34
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    I hope this works out for you Phaed, do you use this dealer for other work or have a relationship with them? I would be nice to see the strenght of this board be of help. Hey Hal what was the guys name you brought to the lunch in Daytona? Maybe he could tell Phaed who the right person to talk to would be.
    st1300 M109 Blackbird

  7. #35
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    There is a LOT of discussion going on here covering different views about Phaed's problem. My suggestion is to look at any case law that addresses the issue. Preferably in the state in which you live. Since you have already thrown the "lawyer up" card in citing a case that addresses your issue would cut to the chase. You can start by contacting a consumer advocacy group in your area for assistance. They could also suggest additional resources for your battle with Suzuki. I have been an exec. with a fortune 50 aerospace company for over 20 years and I always based my decisions on FACTS not EMOTION. Find some facts and fight the good the fight!
    Gone Fishing... NOT!

  8. #36
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    this dealer is really small, with an idiot for a tech, and a chick with no balls as the service manager. i had to explain to them 4 times what was wrong with the bike, and they still couldn't remember it right. the mechanic...i know more about fixing bikes than this guy does, and up until 11 months ago i'd never as much as changed the oil in anything.

    i have no relationship with them. i just had to use them because i'm stopped off here in augusta for 7 months of training.

    i was given some hope by a friend somewhere else, but don't wanna say too much else bout that yet.
    Current Mods: JR exhaust w/crank evac, Oak Paint, Thunder intakes, PC3, JSD, steel brakelines, hub plate, stealth LCD F & R turns, TrickFlasher, CA clear tailight w/modulator, PIAA HLight w/modulator, ISO grips/spikes/wings/shifter/thottleboss, Pro-1 mirrors, Corbin seat, chrome engine/shaft/swingarm covers

  9. #37
    HalGreenlee
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by ppridgen1
    I think when JAG sends the copy of their intent, $600 bucks for the ECU will seem cheap, Hal you know as well as I do, In the end it's all about the bottom line.
    But its about the bottom line for both sides. Which side has the time and money to deal with this? Suzuki has lawyers sitting on the bench just waiting for the next case to come through. Probably no additional cost to Suzuki to handle one more case. And Suzuki has probably handled thousands of these type of claims and knows exactly how they turn out.

  10. #38
    Very Active Member blinker109's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    My dealer installed my PCIII for me but would not put on the HK Sideburners because it required removing the stock pipes and replacing them with a pipe that did not have the same internal fetures therefor altering an emmissions system which is illegal in Va. They had no problem putting on the PCIII though.
    "No, it's not a Harley".....""It's and 1800 or 109 cu"...."Yes it's fast. Faster than yours."....."NO, you cant ride it"...."Thanks, I think it's pretty nice too. I paid less than 11k for it? What did you pay for that Harley?"

  11. #39
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by ppridgen1
    read the act
    http://www.sportrider.com/features/1..._warranty_act/


    In addition—and this is an important aspect of the law—to flatly deny warranty coverage the manufacturer must prove that you have done something to cause the problem. It’s not up to you to prove that you have not. It’s two different things to have the service writer say you’re at fault and to have a large manufacturing concern go on record that you did the deed. Unless there are significant cases already on the books and the manufacturer can produce a genuine engineering study indicating that, say, your combination of pipe and chip will cause engine damage, you still have a strong argument.

    Well i be damned.....say's it right there almost verbatum
    OK, I suppose you're right the problem's solved, Suzuki isn't unjustly denying anyone's warranty after all, my bad.
    &#39;06 Jeep GC SRT-8, &#39;06 Honda Odyssey EX-L, &#39;06 Element EX-P, &#39;03 H2, &#39;03 Blue Z06, &#39;01 Miata SE, &#39;99 Boxster, &#39;70 SuperBee 440 6Pk&nbsp; 4-Speed<br /><br />&#39;07 Red M109R, Iso Grips w/Throttle Boss, ISO Wings, Sportech 14&quot; Shield, Roadburner Road Pro&#39;s Chrome w/SLT, Corbin Saddle, Shaved, JSD 3M, HID Headlight...

  12. #40
    M109Riders Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Don't know your relationship with your dealer but I've modded all my bikes since day one and I've always had a good relationship with my dealers, heck I even brought the guys pizza one time after they mounted a car tire on my Valkyrie. I said that to say that a dealer can pretty much run it through with no questions asked if they like you. I had a supercharged Valkyrie with nitrous and I had a clutch part fail, when I went in to buy the part they looked it up and there was a service bulletin on that part so they fixed it for free , well they gave me the parts and I fixed it , ::) but still they didn't have to do that.

    I know it's too late for that now but I found that if you treat people with respect in most cases they will do the same. I've never been a fan of threatening to do something if I don't get my way. I try and treat people how I would want to be treated and that's worked for me pretty good so far.

    If I had the time I would tell you about a plasma cutter that failed on me and instead of pitching a fit I worked with the guys and through the years I wound up with about $150K of free welding equipment from this company. They still give me stuff from time to time and that was 16 /18 years ago.

    If it was me I would just buy the part and move on. Lifes too short. ::)

  13. #41
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Damn that sucks phaed, hope that works out well for ya and ya get them to take care of it (seems to me they should) that bikes to awesome to be sitting around.

  14. #42

    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by phaed
    this dealer is really small, with an idiot for a tech, and a chick with no balls as the service manager.
    It has been my experience that most chicks DON'T have balls!

  15. #43
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by phaed
    the fact that they install the "illegal" pipes at certain dealers is a good point. thanks for the court tip.

    come to think of it, i bet there are suzuki dealers that install power commanders too. if anyone knows of one specifically, please let me know.
    My dealer installs "illegal" pipes and PCIII's as they sold mine (pipes and PCIII) to me and were going to install both for free (with bike purchase) until I decided to give it a try myself. Just my experience. My dealer is ASK in Columbus, Ohio.
    MODS = Debaffeled, Debadged, JSD, Skeeter, PCIII, Lowered, Debeavered. My silver 9 is faster than yours!

  16. #44
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    I guess I will throw my two pennies in. My first problem with this is even if the ECU went into failsafe mode due to the FI light/SET code I cannot see it damaging the ECU unless the ECU has a problem already after all it's called "fail safe" mode not "fail" mode. and the other thing is them pointing the finger at the PC 3 right away. I would see if Dyno Jet could get on your side by asking them if they could take your PC 3 back to their facility and test it. If it is good and they back you on that I would then present that evidence to Suzuki. Hope you get it sorted out bro.

  17. #45
    Very Active Member JUtah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by steve j
    I guess I will throw my two pennies in. My first problem with this is even if the ECU went into failsafe mode due to the FI light/SET code I cannot see it damaging the ECU unless the ECU has a problem already after all it's called "fail safe" mode not "fail" mode. and the other thing is them pointing the finger at the PC 3 right away. I would see if Dyno Jet could get on your side by asking them if they could take your PC 3 back to their facility and test it. If it is good and they back you on that I would then present that evidence to Suzuki. Hope you get it sorted out bro.&#160; &#160;


    This is what I was going to say Phaed... I would get DynoJet involved. Let them know that your local suzuki Dealer is saying that M109's cant have PCIII's installed without voiding the warranty... Obviously if this got out it could hurt their revenue... Perhaps you can get them on your side.

    I agree with several on here... The burden of proof should be on Zuk... and if the service people weren't total tools this would never have happened to you.
    I'd see if you cant get DynoJet to validate your PCIII is operating to spec, then assign blame to the service dept. for the failure... they caused the ECU failure through improper ESD handling techniques while troubleshooting your bike. I can guarantee you they don't have an ESD strap in the shop, and I can also guarantee you that what ever microcontroller Zuk used is prone to, and has warnings about, ESD damage just like every other microcontroller in the world. It would also be beneficial to get some info from the others that had the same ECU failure/symptoms and proof that Zuk warrantied it.

    I really don't think Suzuki did this... I think it was the stealer... Suzuki counts on them to weed out false claims...

    The dealer wants to be azzholes take the fight to them.

  18. #46
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    lamont, like i said before, i don't really have a relationship with these folks. however, you'd be wrong to assume i went in there demanding anything or being an ass. the first day i brought it in, we had a good time. they were all in the back asking questions, praising, and having me move the bike around so they could take pictures of this "show bike" for their store. the days i stopped in, they let me just go in the back and hang out with the mechanic. it was cordial up to the point when they said they were going to deny it.
    Current Mods: JR exhaust w/crank evac, Oak Paint, Thunder intakes, PC3, JSD, steel brakelines, hub plate, stealth LCD F & R turns, TrickFlasher, CA clear tailight w/modulator, PIAA HLight w/modulator, ISO grips/spikes/wings/shifter/thottleboss, Pro-1 mirrors, Corbin seat, chrome engine/shaft/swingarm covers

  19. #47
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm Litigation has been around for awhile, its only arbitration without weapons.

  20. #48
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Sorry to hear your about this mess. I hope everything works out for you bro.

  21. #49
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by HalGreenlee
    Life is too short to be tilting at windmills. But good luck anyway.


    Jazzman

  22. #50
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    PPridgen1 instead of calling people names and saying people are uninformed...you found an article that has more loops and outs than
    a birdhouse...an Lawyer could take you to lunch with that article...c'mon .

    I see this crap everyday ! I see customers crying to blues about stuff they did to the car and the manufacture saying sorry no can do...they may help and assist in fixing but you will bear the burden of the $$$ .

    I'm sorry... but I know my experience in being in the automotive buisness for 16 yrs means nothing to you ...just maybe I could be right...
    I thought my post would be helpful to Phaed....it may not have been what one wants to hear but it's reality.
    Eaglefan forever !

  23. #51
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Sorry to hear about all the crap that your going through ..I hope it all works out for ya bro.
    From M-1 Abrams MainBattle Tank To M 109..&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Both capable of unleashing the BEAST!!

  24. #52
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    after reading some of your comments, and researching more, i think i know the line the defense is going to take. thier lawyer was sure to mention that exhaust being "illegal", even though up until then it didn't play into it (they had blamed the PCIII). by the m/m act, it says that a manufacturer CAN completely void a warranty if a part makes the vehicle non-compliant with EPA regs. this means they can void any bike that has a loud aftermarket exhaust at will. the m/m actually hurts the consumer in this case. there are federal EPA laws dictating how loud bikes can be...they are just impossible to enforce out on the street due to issues not important here.

    what is important is that the noise regulations remained on the books, even though they are impossible to enforce. their lawyers will say that my exhaust makes my bike non-EPA compliant, therefore i no longer have any warranty at all...skipping the entire point of the PCIII causing the problem.
    Current Mods: JR exhaust w/crank evac, Oak Paint, Thunder intakes, PC3, JSD, steel brakelines, hub plate, stealth LCD F & R turns, TrickFlasher, CA clear tailight w/modulator, PIAA HLight w/modulator, ISO grips/spikes/wings/shifter/thottleboss, Pro-1 mirrors, Corbin seat, chrome engine/shaft/swingarm covers

  25. #53
    Very Active Member sboden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    I've only read a page if this post, so if I step on someone I apologize in advance. It is the dealer that truely let you down. Just about every vehicle I've ever owned has been altered by me in some way including my 109. I had a problem with the engine light coming on on my Mazda. I was up front that it could be caused by my cold air intake, if the code came back to that area. The code came back to the area and they changed a part out that was attached to the cold air intake. The cold air intake did not cause the problem and the tech knew that, but they could have still made an issue out of it. The dealership instead fixed it under warranty and I'll buy again from them if they have something I like. Also Olathe Suzuki sells 109's on the showroom floor with after market exhausts and power commanders already intalled on them by the dealer. With the great service I've recieved from their service department so far, I bet you they would have replaced the part under warranty. I agree with some of the opinions so far, per law Suzuki has to prove the after market part directly caused the failure. The only problem is you will probably spend more on lawyers than the part would cost you and Suzuki knows that.
    Sold my beautiful Silv M109R for a more practical Concours 14

  26. #54
    Junco
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    I so understand your predicament. However, from experience I think you should pay the 1200 dollars and be done with it. Is it worth the stress you're under? Pay the money, get your bike fixed and enjoy it. Good luck to you.

  27. #55
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by ppridgen1

    Point blank ,your a jerk and have no clue what you are talking about. There have been numerous posts and repairs of bad ecu's on unmodded bikes.....exact same symtoms and cure. You simply think since he modded his exhaust,or installed a power commander that the ecu will go bad...I'll bet there are 500 bikes or more with powercommanders installed with no problems ....etc. magnusson -moss act will end up taking care of his situation because the dealer/company that is denying his attempt at the claim ,MUST PROVE that his mods caused the failure......read up brother....he doesn't wish to sue,sue,sue....he just want's to ride, ride, ride.....without having to shell out $1200.00 of his hard earned money because his factory ECU (which is also an electronic device) failed.
    I will guarantee you that it's gonna be cheaper for Suzuki to give him the ECU than it will to take it to court,pay a lawyer and have another bike or bikes tested with the exact same configuration that he has ,trying to get one to cause the ECU to fail just to prove their side of the case.
    Phaed,sorry bout all the BS Bro !!!
    If you're (you know the contraction of the words you are) going to attempt to insult someone at least use proper English. The correct wording is you're a jerk, not your a jerk. You are right in one respect there are probably 500 bikes or more with power commanders installed. But that does not mean his power commander did not and could not have caused the problem. "Without shelling out hard earned money?" Do you think the lawyer is free? If all he is litigating for is the repair of his 109 then guess who pays for the lawyer.

  28. #56
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Sorry you have had this problem Phaed..I can empathise with your frustration (lots of us are in your position re mods).

    I WAS a lawyer (when God's dog was a pup) ...my advice/opinion is (because of the value of the item in relation to what litigation might cost) .... avoid the confrontation ...if Suzi are not open to a soft conciliatory approach to giving you at least some support purely on a "good will" basis, then take Hal up on his (VERY GENEROUS) 'cost price' offer for the ECU and lets all give Hal the KUDOS!...very cool guy!

    Tell Suzuki that the matter is on open forum here and lots of owners and potential buyers are watching to see how good they are at supporting their product.

    Very best of luck Mate!

    Just so you don't feel alone with your bike problem:
    A bolt fell out and a muffler on my (almost) brand new ST1300 fell off yesterday (got a bit road rash-ed)..what do you think my chances will be with Honda for a new muffler on Monday? ::)..NOT GREAT.. I'm thinking!
    Cheaper to buy a set of new Staintune Mufflers to replace it..(then all the balance of my warrantee is gone)....

  29. #57

    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight on White Satin
    If you're (you know[,] the contraction of the words you are) going to attempt to insult someone[,] at least use proper English. The correct wording is you're a jerk, not your a jerk. You are right in one respect[.] [T]here are probably 500 bikes or more with power commanders installed. But[,] that does not mean his power commander did not [nor] could not have caused the problem. "Without shelling out hard earned money?" Do you think the lawyer is free? If all he is litigating for is the repair of his 109[,] then guess who pays for the lawyer.
    Come on man... Let's not turn this into a grammar class. Besides, in pointing out his misuse of the word "your", you made several grammatical errors yourself. Things like missing commas, and run-on sentences and such. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going to try and insult somebody's grammar, you had better make sure your own response is grammatically correct.

    PS: I corrected your grammatical errors in your quote above to show you what I was referring to. I placed all changes inside a &#91;].
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  30. #58
    Very Active Member BlkM109r's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    he's not out only the cost of the replacement ECU, but the value of his warranty or extended warranty if you have it. If you purchased the extended warranty, ask for your money back if they're not going to honor it

  31. #59
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Phaed,

    I hope everything works out in the end for you. Whether, you beat Suzuki down or just buy the part and move on with life. You got a killer looking bike. I'd hate to see you give it up after all the work you put into it.
    Changes: Kury ISO Grips w/Stilettos, Tag mod w/LED Turn Signals, Drag S Mirrors, Maniac Mod, [s]Cobra Dragsters w/homemade baffles[/s]. Modified stock pipes with JR styled muffler, [s]Soon to be[/s] Edelbrock&#039;d air intakes, De-paired, Secondary throttlebody flaps removed, Cold plugs and PCIII<br /><br />

  32. #60
    Very Active Member JUtah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of Suzuki

    Quote Originally Posted by BlkM109®
    he's not out only the cost of the replacement ECU, but the value of his warranty or extended warranty if you have it. If you purchased the extended warranty, ask for your money back if they're not going to honor it
    Does my paint job void my warranty??

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