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Thread: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

  1. #31

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by willid
    IS THE RIDE HARSHER ON BUMPS, WHEN THE BIKE IS LOWERED. I LOWERED MY MUSTANG AND I HATE IT. IT LOOKS GREAT BUT RIDES LIKE CRAP.
    I think it does, but not terribly. I just remember riding it for the first time afterward, and noticing some harsh bumps. I've since put over 5000 miles on it lowered, and I still love it.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

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  3. #32
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    You have to remember. This does NOT alter your suspension. It only extends the pivot point for the rear tire. The coil-over shock travel is NOT altered.

    It's more just your mind playing games with you. Just like running premium gas in your daily driver Honda Accord gives it 25 extra horsepower. Yeah,,, Right....

    Some people DO stiffen up the coil-over shock to compensate for the drop in the bike frame so that it does not bottom out. Mainly because the suspension travel remains the same but the bike sits lower.

    The only difference I noticed after dropping the bike was that my feet were flat on the ground and out wider on the sides. No more extending my right foot to clear the exhaust. The bike rides the same to me. I just have to consider the lower stance when I flick it deep into a curve. I have ground the foot pegs a few times. But as I said before, I think the bike should have come from the factory like this.
    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  4. #33

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Delmustator
    It's more just your mind playing games with you.
    I'll buy that.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

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  6. #34

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Delmustator,
    One more question. You said that a floor jack is required to support the rear wheel when lining up the bolts with the new bones but you never showed a photo of how this was setup. JasonZ also told me this over the phone when I ordered them. Are you talking about the simple jack like this?



    I would think it would be too tall to fit under the rear tire and would be tough to get centered, etc.

    Or are you referring to something like this?



    I know this is probably a stupid question. This type of jack I think would have a lower starting point and would probably be easier to get balanced under the rear wheel. (Is this a floor jack and the other type is not called a floor jack?) I really didn't want to go out and spend another $70 for a jack that I may only use once. I already have a bike lift just like the one you used. (I think I already know the answer to this, I need the 2nd type, but I figured I would clarify anyways!) Thanks!! And GREAT write-up!!

  7. #35
    Very Active Member z4woo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Instead of boards under the rear tire to get the lift under the bike, I just push the front onto a car ramp (boards always unstable for me anyway)


    Mods: None ........ Hello V-Rod Muscle

  8. #36
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCherry
    Delmustator,
    One more question. You said that a floor jack is required to support the rear wheel when lining up the bolts with the new bones but you never showed a photo of how this was setup. JasonZ also told me this over the phone when I ordered them. Are you talking about the simple jack like this?

    I know this is probably a stupid question. This type of jack I think would have a lower starting point and would probably be easier to get balanced under the rear wheel. (Is this a floor jack and the other type is not called a floor jack?) I really didn't want to go out and spend another $70 for a jack that I may only use once. I already have a bike lift just like the one you used. (I think I already know the answer to this, I need the 2nd type, but I figured I would clarify anyways!) Thanks!! And GREAT write-up!!
    I used one like this..



    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  9. #37
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by z4woo
    Instead of boards under the rear tire to get the lift under the bike, I just push the front onto a car ramp (boards always unstable for me anyway)
    That probly would have worked. I just didn't have any ramps to use. Really a single piece of 2x4 would have probly done it just fine. All you need is enough room after the install to slide the bike lift out without scraping the underside of the motor and stuff.
    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  10. #38

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCherry
    Delmustator,
    One more question. You said that a floor jack is required to support the rear wheel when lining up the bolts with the new bones but you never showed a photo of how this was setup. JasonZ also told me this over the phone when I ordered them. Are you talking about the simple jack like this?

    Or are you referring to something like this?



    I know this is probably a stupid question. This type of jack I think would have a lower starting point and would probably be easier to get balanced under the rear wheel. (Is this a floor jack and the other type is not called a floor jack?) I really didn't want to go out and spend another $70 for a jack that I may only use once. I already have a bike lift just like the one you used. (I think I already know the answer to this, I need the 2nd type, but I figured I would clarify anyways!) Thanks!! And GREAT write-up!!

    Yup, that's a floor jack. No need to spend $70 bucks though, as you can find one much cheaper at Wal-Mart or harbor Freight. Any small floor jack designed for a car will work. That being said, if you drive a SUV, you may want to pick up one that is bigger that will reach the frame of the SUV as most car jacks won't work on them.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  11. #39
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Yeah,, what that Medic guy said...

    P.S. I wouldn't use a 2-ton jack on a SUV anyway. Both my Ford F150's weigh in at 6k lbs dry. "The right tool for the right job" is what my dad always says...
    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  12. #40

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Delmustator
    "The right tool for the right job" is what my dad always says...
    Good advice to follow. Just remember that you're only lifting one side of that 6K truck, so a 4000# jack wouldn't be overworked.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  13. #41

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Delmustator,
    excellent job that is!! I have a question about lifting the bike. I have the same lift as the one you use on the pics. But when i lift my bike i put the lift much more towards the front wheel, because i read somewhere that the balance point of a 2 cylinder is normally in the middle of the two cylinders. Do you know maybe where the exact centre of gravity is?
    Gr. Sjaak.

  14. #42

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Delmustator
    Yeah,, what that Medic guy said...

    P.S. I wouldn't use a 2-ton jack on a SUV anyway. Both my Ford F150's weigh in at 6k lbs dry. "The right tool for the right job" is what my dad always says...
    Well I have a 2005 Toyota Highlander (not sure what it weighs) and a 2005 Subaru Outback (not sure what it weighs either) but I doubt I will be hoisting either one up anyway. Thanks for the help!

  15. #43

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by traveller
    Delmustator,
    excellent job that is!! I have a question about lifting the bike. I have the same lift as the one you use on the pics. But when i lift my bike i put the lift much more towards the front wheel, because i read somewhere that the balance point of a 2 cylinder is normally in the middle of the two cylinders. Do you know maybe where the exact centre of gravity is?
    Gr. Sjaak.
    I had trouble finding the balance point myself. It required me lifting, repositioning the jack, lifting again, till I found the right spot. I ultimately had to put a strap over the seat because when I used the jack to lift the rear tire, it wanted to roll forward. I strapped my handlebars to the sides instead of straight down to the jack itself as I've seen some people do so maybe that was the reason it wanted to tilt forward.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  16. #44
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by traveller
    Delmustator,
    excellent job that is!! I have a question about lifting the bike. I have the same lift as the one you use on the pics. But when i lift my bike i put the lift much more towards the front wheel, because i read somewhere that the balance point of a 2 cylinder is normally in the middle of the two cylinders. Do you know maybe where the exact centre of gravity is?
    Gr. Sjaak.
    Medic hit the nail on the head..

    You have to play with the jack to find the right balance point. If you can use a rachet tie down strap to lock the bike to the lift, even better. When I used the floor jack to lift the rear tire into position. I did support the front tire with some pieces of 2x4 just to maintain the bikes balance. Otherwise the front will dip when you lift the rear tire due to the imbalance created. Most of the bikes weight is still on the bike jack but it's always a good idea to strap it down. Just consider a 600 lb bike falling over on top of you. That would make your day.

    P.S. Careful with that floor jack and the positioning. The engine casing is aluminum and has some protrusions. It would not take much to damage it. Be careful when you put the jack under there..



    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  17. #45
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    excellent how to step.......great pics and simple.....enough said...period....

  18. #46
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Was wondering what kind of grease you used when you put the bones on?

  19. #47

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Decibles
    Was wondering what kind of grease you used when you put the bones on?
    I used red wheel bearing grease.... 707L by Pennzoil
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  20. #48
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    I used Slick 50 bearing grease on mine. But any quality bearing grease should do fine.
    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  21. #49

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Holy cow, what a Frikking PITA this install was!!!

    I think I made up several new curse words along the way. I had my buddy helping me out to help steady the bike and make sure it didn't fall off the lift when I was tugging at the nuts and bolts. Man those suckers are TIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was beginning to think they were welded in place!! The nut on the exhaust side of Bolt #2 took me probably 2+ hours just to remove that one nut!! That's the one that Medic said he couldn't get anything on but a Crescent Wrench. I've got a lot of tools but had to make a trip to Sears to get a 1/2" drive breaker bar and a 1/2" drive 6 point 19mm socket (ended up having to buy a whole $30 set, oh well). I pretty much rounded off the corners of the nut before that trying to break it loose with an open end 19mm wrench. I actually put the wrench on the nut, had my buddy hold it in place while I sat behind the bike and pushed forward on the wrench with my foot to get more leverage. All I managed to do was round off the corners of the nut it was so tight! Sprayed it with WD-40 etc. as well but that sucker wouldn't budge. So I went to Sears, got the sockets and breaker bar, then spent another hour cursing the thing trying to make room to get the socket on there (which barely fit over the nut because of the rounded corners, had to hammer it onto the nut with the side of a wrench, then had a hell of a time getting the breaker bar to seat into the socket. I had to unbolt that little box between this nut and the exhaust that had two cables running to it (what the heck is that stupid thing anyway?) and actually had to unbolt the rear half of the exhaust (2 bolts on bottom of exhaust next to rear brake and 1 bolt near center of exhaust), so I could swing the exhaust away from the bike 1 inch or so to get more room to position the breaker bar. Finally got it sorta on there and did the whole "sit behind the bike and push on it with my foot" thing and finally get it to break free. All the while being scared to death the bike was gonna fall off the lift from all the pressure I was putting on these nuts. So OK, 2+ hours after starting on this nut (including time to go to Sears for more tools) I finally got the damn nut off. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

    Now comes the other fun part, getting the just as tight nuts on the two #1 bolts off. These were easier to access so though they were stuck on just as tight it was easier to get a socket on them. Again, pushed on the biggest wrench I had with my foot to break these free also. OK, so now how do I get those damn #1 bolts out?? The shock is in the way, can't swing the shock out of the way because the lift is in the way (I know others have mentioned this and I knew I would have to deal with this when I got to it) so the only way to get these bolts out is to lower the bike, move the lift forward so the shock can be swung down out of the way. The only problem now is if you lower the bike the rear fender will be sitting on the rear tire and the bike will be too low to get the lift out from under it to reposition it (yes, I realized this BEFORE I lowered the bike). So I get my floor jack out, position it under the center of the rear tire and slowly and carefully lower the bike lift (this scared the crap outta me balancing the entire rear end of the bike on a 1" in diameter lift point) but I got her lowered, moved the lift forward maybe 8" or so and jacked it back up a little bit just to help balance the bike. Now while in this position I was able to move the shock down enough to get the #1 bolts out and removed the stock bones. Next problem is the bolts wouldn't fit into the holes in the bones very easily (JasonZ's bones) so I had to get my 3/8" drill bit and run it in and out of the holes trying to make the hole bigger so the bolts will slide in and out easily. I didn't have a rat tail file. So 10 minutes later I got that done (all the while my buddy is steadying the bike and holding the front brake) and I slather the bones up with grease and spent another 10 minutes trying get the bolt holes and the bone to line up on the exhaust side, can't hold the bolt and the bone and the flashlight to see what I was doing all at the same time so this was very frustrating but I finally got the bolt through. The other (shifter) side was a piece of cake because it was easy to see what I was doing on that side. Then I got the #3 bolt through the eye of the shock (really easy) and started lining up the long #2 bolt with the holes it needed to go through (keep in mind that the rear wheel is still being supported by the floor jack) so I had my buddy crank up the bike lift until the holes lined up and greased everything up and got the bolt through. YAY!!! Now all I had to do was put all the nuts back on these bolts and tighten them suckers down, reinstall the little box between the exhaust and nut #2, reinstall exhaust bolts, etc. Lift bike enough to remove floor jack from under rear tire (bike lift is still 8" forward of where it should be, maybe I should have started with it here, then I wouldn't have had the shock in the way of bolts #1 if I had)

    Anyway, I put a big stack of newspapers under the rear tire (didn't have any 2x4's or 2x6's) so when I lowered the bike lift I could get the lift out from under the bike, rolled the bike forward off the newspapers and admired my work. 4 1/2 hours after starting I finally got the new bones installed. What a FPITA!! But, it's done and I'm happy with the results. Here are the before and after pics.

    Before lowering:


    After lowering:


    And no, I don't want to help anyone else install theirs!!!

  22. #50
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Dennis,

    Sorry to hear about that being a PITA job for you. But the results are definitely worth it. What size bones did you use?

    We had one nut start to round on us because like you said we could only get an open end wrench on it, so we used a socket on the bolt side and turned that instead of the nut which was starting to get rounded. Instead of putting steady pressure on the ratchet like with your foot we hit it with a rubber mallet to break them loose- seemed to work pretty smoothly.

    And yes, positioning of the jack forward out of the way of the shock is necessary. And strapping the bike to the lift with straps is a great idea for stability.

    If anyone near Orlando (Apopka actually) wants to come over, Mark and I will install the bones for you free of charge. The first set took about an hour and a half. The second set only took about an hour. We figure that if we have everything set up ahead of time. Grease, lift, straps, blocks of wood, etc. that we can get it down to about 30 minutes.

    The bottom line is Dennis, your bike looks awesome and you "got er done".
    Gear up, ride safe, pray every day.

  23. #51
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Ouch!

    That was a rough read

  24. #52

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Thanks Sal,

    I put on JasonZ's 2.5" bones.

    I tried hitting the wrench with a hammer (didn't have a rubber mallet, but was thinking of buying a baby sledge!) and that didn't work. We tried turning from the bolt side but the whole thing turned. Maybe once I got the open end wrench on the nut we could have tried turning from the bolt side and just holding the nut. Dunno why we didn't try that. Anyway, I can always justify buying more tools!
    I also bought a rolling mechanics stool while I was at Sears. Didn't need it for this job but I'm sure it will come in handy sometime. I ache all over today.

    The only thing I would do different if I had to do it over again (only gonna happen if someone holds a gun to my head) is I would have started with the bike lift more forward than I did, I was just trying to put the lift where it appeared to be in Delmustator's photos.

    My hats off to you for offering to install these for free for someone. You couldn't pay me to go through that hassle again.

  25. #53

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    LOL, BlackCherry, when I started reading your post, I thought you had dug up my old post from when I installed mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210
    Installed my lowering bones today. OMFG what a royal PITA! Had I known it would be this difficult I would have gladly paid to have them installed.
    I think some of my bolts had seized because one of the threads actually sheared off. I also began rounding the bolt heads since all I could fit in the tight space was a couple crescent wrenches. Like you, you couldn't pay me to install these for other people. I should have driven up to Raleigh to visit Del for the day. Here's a pic of my bolt that broke a thread and nearly rounded the head. You can see where the thread sheared.



    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  26. #54

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    LOL!

    Glad to hear I'm not the only one that wanted to just say f**k it and let someone else install them. LOL!

    How long did your install take you?
    Here's to both of us finally getting it completed.

  27. #55
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by M109LOVER
    Dennis,

    Sorry to hear about that being a PITA job for you. But the results are definitely worth it. What size bones did you use?

    We had one nut start to round on us because like you said we could only get an open end wrench on it, so we used a socket on the bolt side and turned that instead of the nut which was starting to get rounded. Instead of putting steady pressure on the ratchet like with your foot we hit it with a rubber mallet to break them loose- seemed to work pretty smoothly.

    And yes, positioning of the jack forward out of the way of the shock is necessary. And strapping the bike to the lift with straps is a great idea for stability.

    If anyone near Orlando (Apopka actually) wants to come over, Mark and I will install the bones for you free of charge. The first set took about an hour and a half. The second set only took about an hour. We figure that if we have everything set up ahead of time. Grease, lift, straps, blocks of wood, etc. that we can get it down to about 30 minutes.

    The bottom line is Dennis, your bike looks awesome and you "got er done".
    GREAT!! ::) Now I read this!! I just finished installing my DLP 2.75's. It was really no major problem, though. Took the laptop out to the garage, pulled up delmunster's how to, and had at it. Turned out GREAT!!
    &quot;Does the name Pavlov ring a bell&quot;<br />&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wunderground.com/US/FL/Eustis.html?bannertypeclick=gizmotimetempbig&quot; &gt;<br />&lt;img src=&quot;http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetempbig/language/www/US/FL/Eustis.gif&quot; border=0<br />alt=&quot;Click for Eustis, Florida Forecast&quot; height=50 width=150&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

  28. #56

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCherry
    LOL!

    Glad to hear I'm not the only one that wanted to just say f**k it and let someone else install them. LOL!

    How long did your install take you?
    Here's to both of us finally getting it completed.
    I think it took me about 4 hours. Like yours, my bones were 'off' a bit, and did not fit without balls to the wall forcing. I installed the upper end to the linkage and then couldn't get the bolts through the bottom end. When I removed the bolt from the linkage, I rushed and forgot about the bushing with needle bearings, so needless to say, some bearings fell out. I had to remove the linkage from the bike which the bolt was even tighter than the other bolts. I honestly didn't think I would be able to get it off it was so dang tight. So, I finally got it off, and repacked the bearings. Once I got it back on, I still had to fight with the bones to get them to clear the lip of bushing that stuck out of the linkage on each side. In the end, I was proud of the fact that I did it by myself as I'm not a wrench by trade. My auto mechanical knowledge is pretty limited.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  29. #57

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Wow, it sounds like you had a completely different set of problems than I did, though we both had the "welded on" nuts. I haven't test ridden the bike yet to see if anything squeaks or not, it's been in the 20's here lately. Brrrr. It was nice to finally get it done.

  30. #58
    Very Active Member Delmustator's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    I know what the problem was....

    You guys don't talk to your sweetie like she is the only lady in your lives. I talked to mine the whole time.. Told her how good she looked. Rubbed her belly and made her feel appreciated.. Them nuts were on there pretty snug but they were no match for the Del....



    OK, all BS aside... Looks like it was pretty cold there. I'll bet that had added some torque to the nuts on the bolts. OR the person that initially installed them used that air tool to torque the crap outta them..

    I changed the bones on my sisters C50T and DAMN!! Those things were welded on! It took two of us on the breaker bar to get them loose. And like always, when they let loose, it was like something snappin your azz in half. I felt real pain that day and I was sore the next day after tackling that job.

    I don't know why some are easy and some are hard. I guess it's just the way of things.. I lowered both Firecat's and my 109s in about 2 hours each start to finish. In no rush or anything.
    -Del
    2006 VB M109R with a few MODs....

  31. #59

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Delmustator
    I know what the problem was....

    You guys don't talk to your sweetie like she is the only lady in your lives. I talked to mine the whole time..
    Well, I can assure you, after the second hour, I was calling her a bit©h and all other sorts of bad names.


    Disclaimer: I don't call my woman a bit©h. She would beat the ***** out of me if I did.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

  32. #60

    Default Re: How To: Lower the M109R (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Delmustator
    OK, all BS aside... Looks like it was pretty cold there. I'll bet that had added some torque to the nuts on the bolts. OR the person that initially installed them used that air tool to torque the crap outta them..
    Well it may be cold here, but my garage stays pretty warm, I guess because the furnace and water heater are in there. If the garage door is closed it warms up into the upper 60's in there so temperature wasn't a factor. I just know that when that one nut finally broke free it was with a big SNAP! Then some real groaning/squealing, and there was NO WAY someone had room to get an air wrench on that sucker, so it musta just been hand tightened to 500 lb/ft of torque.

    I'm thinking of replacing that nut with the rounded off corners, I put it where it was easy to get to on bolt #1 on the shifter side. Suzuki probably wants $10 for one stupid nut though. Arghhh. Thanks for this thread though Del, without it the job would have been even tougher.

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