TRE, Fuel management, or both?
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Thread: TRE, Fuel management, or both?

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    Default TRE, Fuel management, or both?

    Hey guys. A buddy of mine just bought a 2012 model and previous owner had Cobra Tri Pro pipes installed and nothing else. I test rode his bike and found it really twitchy and irregular especially at low rpm when compared to mine. I really can't tell if it is normal behavior since I installed a Gipro Atre on mine as soon as I got it 5 years ago.
    My question is, should he get a TRE or A fuel management system because of the aftermarket pipes? Or both?


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    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Default TRE or fuel management

    There is no chance to get the ECU flashed in Portugal?
    That seems to be the best way to fine tune our nines nowadays...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    There is no chance to get the ECU flashed in Portugal?
    That seems to be the best way to fine tune our nines nowadays...
    Sadly not an option in our neck of the woods, we are on our own for any mods/maintenance that have to be done. I'm looking and reading about the Cobra Fi2000 Pro Power black to see if it's a viable option, any recommendations?

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    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexXx View Post
    Sadly not an option in our neck of the woods, we are on our own for any mods/maintenance that have to be done. I'm looking and reading about the Cobra Fi2000 Pro Power black to see if it's a viable option, any recommendations?

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    ...really twitchy and irregular especially at low rpm ...

    In that case I would start with ATRE. There should not be
    necessary to install Cobra Fi2000 Pro Power black, until the
    air intakes are changed as well. OEM ECU should handle just
    the new exhaust alone. Does your friend have the Cobra TriPro
    adapted for O2 sensors, or he has the O2 sensors eliminators
    installed? Cobra Tri Pro exhaust doesnt come with O2 bungs
    installed, could that be also part of his problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    In that case I would start with ATRE. There should not be
    necessary to install Cobra Fi2000 Pro Power black, until the
    air intakes are changed as well. OEM ECU should handle just
    the new exhaust alone. Does your friend have the Cobra TriPro
    adapted for O2 sensors, or he has the O2 sensors eliminators
    installed? Cobra Tri Pro exhaust doesnt come with O2 bungs
    installed, could that be also part of his problem?
    It has nothing installed at all, that is what baffles me, the previous owner just installed the new pipes and nothing else, not even the servo buddy (already had my friend order one) . I asked him if the Fi light ever came on since he removed the stock exhaust and he said no wich I find strange. The bike has 5k miles on it so I don't think it has been badly abused

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    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexXx View Post
    It has nothing installed at all, that is what baffles me, the previous owner just installed the new pipes and nothing else, not even the servo buddy (already had my friend order one) . I asked him if the Fi light ever came on since he removed the stock exhaust and he said no wich I find strange. The bike has 5k miles on it so I don't think it has been badly abused

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    I have heard that O2 sensors unplugged do not call FI light, but ECU
    must be getting weird signals from simply unplugged O2 sensors...
    One should at least install O2 sensor eliminators.
    Cobra Tri Pro came with a little metal gizmo neded to be attached to
    the Exhast servo motor, which stayed on the bike, and that fools ECU
    enough for FI light not to come on.

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    Very Active Member JUDAH-9's Avatar
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    The
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexXx View Post
    It has nothing installed at all, that is what baffles me, the previous owner just installed the new pipes and nothing else, not even the servo buddy (already had my friend order one) . I asked him if the Fi light ever came on since he removed the stock exhaust and he said no wich I find strange. The bike has 5k miles on it so I don't think it has been badly abused

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    Although the previous owner failed to install a Servo Buddy in conjunction with the aftermarket exhaust, it sounds like your friend has a bike that’s in excellent condition. It’s also a blank canvas, for which he can now make into his own masterpiece. Thevili gave you what I consider to be excellent advice. I would only add, if your friend has every intention of upgrading the performance of the bike, he should find a set of aftermarket intakes he likes, and add them along with a Servo Buddy, ATRE, and Fuel Management System (Cobra Power Pro Black) simultaneously, and be done with that portion of getting his bike to where he wants it...at least from a performance perspective.

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    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexXx View Post
    Sadly not an option in our neck of the woods, we are on our own for any mods/maintenance that have to be done. I'm looking and reading about the Cobra Fi2000 Pro Power black to see if it's a viable option, any recommendations?

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    https://www.t3motoperformance.com/

    If this shop is too far away from you,
    have you tried similar shops like this one?
    Or maybe consider to contact member here
    Bering_C_Sparky
    I am sure he will find the way how to flash your friends or yours ECU
    In my opinion it will cost you less or around the same as buying all
    those extra accessories...
    Just my suggestion.... Good luck, Viliam


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    I bought my 2013 M109r 5 years ago with 700 miles on it . The original owner had the dealer to replace the exhaust with the Cobra Tri-Pro . My bike , when I bought it from him, had no wires or attachments of any kind to the exhaust and was working ok . As I said , the Tri-Pro was installed on the brand new , zero miles bike by the Suzuki dealer .
    I then myself added the intake Hyperchargers , an X-TRE and a Cobra fuel management , the manual type (at that time , there was no other type ) and after I added all of that and tuned the Cobra management a couple of times on the first 3 months , the bike has been perfect since then , up until today .
    I am sure you can do the same thing .

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    Very Active Member asillito's Avatar
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    Unfortunately having your ECU flashed does not give you a personal tune. The only way to do that is to have someone do the map having the bike to do so. Most doing the flashing use a general improved performance mapping. I would think better than a ECU remap would be to use a dyno and have them tune it exactly to your bike.
    Power, looks and style ... nuff said !!

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asillito View Post
    Unfortunately having your ECU flashed does not give you a personal tune. The only way to do that is to have someone do the map having the bike to do so. Most doing the flashing use a general improved performance mapping. I would think better than a ECU remap would be to use a dyno and have them tune it exactly to your bike.
    While having "your" bike on the dyno to be tuned is certainly not a bad thing.......below are a couple items to consider also.

    1) The stock M109R of each model year all run the exact same ECU tuning.....they are not specifically tuned to each bike and yet they all run just fine. A ECU tune by mail will run just fine bike to bike same as the stock ECU tune does bike to bike if mods are the same.
    Most inconstancies will come from poor maintenance or other alterations to the bike by individual owners.

    2) 95% of all dyno tuners you would take your bike to are going to want to install a Power Commander to do the fuel tuning.
    They will normally download a generic map off the Dynojet website and then usually only make changes to the 100% throttle (WOT) position.
    The rest of the fuel mapping you will still be running a generic map set. So most times you are not really getting a complete "personal" tune even if you take "your" bike to a dyno tuner.

    Unless you can find a tuner with an Eddy-Current dyno (not an inertia dyno) willing to take the time to custom tune the entire map set and you are willing to pay for this time, you will likely be running a generic map set even after paying much more and getting much less than you would from an ECU tune by mail.

    Now if you can find a local tuner who can custom tune your ECU directly and you are willing to pay the cost for this then I would agree 100% with the comment above.

    Unfortunately not very many guys will have someone in their area you can take your bike to have this done, and half of those individuals will not want to pay the high cost for a custom tune.

    There is a thread on this forum where a guy from New Zealand did just that, he dropped his bike off at a local dyno tuner, they kept his bike for a week and did a custom ECU tune. When he picked his bike up they handed him a bill for $1000 and a dyno graph showing he now pulls 100 HP on the top end. ......so your outcome doing this not guaranteed to be a better option.

    But he says his bike runs great and he is happy with the result......in the end that is all that really matters.

    I would dare to say that only a very small percentage of riders run WOT more than 1% of their entire ridding time and some guys never see 100% WOT or even take the bike much over 120 mph.
    So IMHO having a bike that runs well thought the entire map set is much more important than a large WOT HP number any day.
    Everyone gets hung up on that WOT HP number that they ride in less than 1% of the time and which is often over inflated anyway, but they give zero thought to the rest of the map set they ride in 99% of the time. Unless you are drag racing the bike, to me this thought process is not rational.

    Just some food for though.
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 12-09-2020 at 09:36 PM.

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    Radio Active Member rynosback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    While having "your" bike on the dyno to be tuned is certainly not a bad thing.......below are a couple items to consider also.

    1) The stock M109R of each model year all run the exact same ECU tuning.....they are not specifically tuned to each bike and yet they all run just fine. A ECU tune by mail will run just fine bike to bike same as the stock ECU tune does bike to bike if mods are the same.
    Most inconstancies will come from poor maintenance or other alterations to the bike by individual owners.

    2) 95% of all dyno tuners you would take your bike to are going to want to install a Power Commander to do the fuel tuning.
    They will normally download a generic map off the Dynojet website and then usually only make changes to the 100% throttle (WOT) position.
    The rest of the fuel mapping you will still be running a generic map set. So most times you are not really getting a complete "personal" tune even if you take "your" bike to a dyno tuner.

    Unless you can find a tuner with an Eddy-Current dyno (not an inertia dyno) willing to take the time to custom tune the entire map set and you are willing to pay for this time, you will likely be running a generic map set even after paying much more and getting much less than you would from an ECU tune by mail.

    Now if you can find a local tuner who can custom tune your ECU directly and you are willing to pay the cost for this then I would agree 100% with the comment above.

    Unfortunately not very many guys will have someone in their area you can take your bike to have this done, and half of those individuals will not want to pay the high cost for a custom tune.

    There is a thread on this forum where a guy from New Zealand did just that, he dropped his bike off at a local dyno tuner, they kept his bike for a week and did a custom ECU tune. When he picked his bike up they handed him a bill for $1000 and a dyno graph showing he now pulls 100 HP on the top end. ......so your outcome doing this not guaranteed to be a better option.

    But he says his bike runs great and he is happy with the result......in the end that is all that really matters.

    I would dare to say that only a very small percentage of riders run WOT more than 1% of their entire ridding time and some guys never see 100% WOT or even take the bike much over 120 mph.
    So IMHO having a bike that runs well thought the entire map set is much more important than a large WOT HP number any day.
    Everyone gets hung up on that WOT HP number that they ride in less than 1% of the time and which is often over inflated anyway, but they give zero thought to the rest of the map set they ride in 99% of the time. Unless you are drag racing the bike, to me this thought process is not rational.

    Just some food for though.
    well said and good to see you back on the forum.
    Coming to a city near you..
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  15. #13

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    Neither get it tuned on a dyno and have the ecu flashed

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