Dyno or No Dyno
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Thread: Dyno or No Dyno

  1. #1
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    Default Dyno or No Dyno

    Hey everyone I have a quick question, I have a 2018 B.O.S.S. Edition I recently installed a Freedom Performance Sharp Curve Radius Exhaust as well as a High Flow Dual Intake Air Cleaner Filter Kit. I also have a PCV that is not installed due to mixed reviews, some say I need to install it some say don't install it just flash the ECU and others say do both. My question is with me having those 2 performance parts should I get my bike tuned, also what should I do about the PCV install or not install. Does anyone else have this type of set up if so how much performance difference did you receive and what was your before and after Dyno Results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monroekc17 View Post
    Hey everyone I have a quick question, I have a 2018 B.O.S.S. Edition I recently installed a Freedom Performance Sharp Curve Radius Exhaust as well as a High Flow Dual Intake Air Cleaner Filter Kit. I also have a PCV that is not installed due to mixed reviews, some say I need to install it some say don't install it just flash the ECU and others say do both. My question is with me having those 2 performance parts should I get my bike tuned, also what should I do about the PCV install or not install. Does anyone else have this type of set up if so how much performance difference did you receive and what was your before and after Dyno Results.

    I would either just get your ECU flashed via mail order (BCS) or find a tuner that can flash the ECU while on the dyno instead of using a PCV.

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    Active Member Stalker's Avatar
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    Whatever you decide to do, do something.

    Because you are running really lean with those mods and no tuning.
    Last edited by Stalker; 1 Day Ago at 11:59 PM.

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    Very Active Member JUDAH-9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monroekc17 View Post
    Hey everyone I have a quick question, I have a 2018 B.O.S.S. Edition I recently installed a Freedom Performance Sharp Curve Radius Exhaust as well as a High Flow Dual Intake Air Cleaner Filter Kit. I also have a PCV that is not installed due to mixed reviews, some say I need to install it some say don't install it just flash the ECU and others say do both. My question is with me having those 2 performance parts should I get my bike tuned, also what should I do about the PCV install or not install. Does anyone else have this type of set up if so how much performance difference did you receive and what was your before and after Dyno Results.
    My recommendation is to get rid of the PCV, and go with a Full ECU Flash from BCS. No Fuel Tuner can provide what you can get out of a fully flashed ECU. BCS’s Full ECU Flashes are producing amazing results, according to those who have received his services. Neither the FP Sharp Curve Radius exhaust or the High Flow Dual Air Intakes you have are going to increase your bike’s performance. However, the Full ECU Flash from BCS is an absolute game changer. Most, if not all, have stated it transformed their 9s into something they never thought possible or expected. Very soon, I’m removing my Fuel Tuners, and having the Full ECU Flash performed on all three of my 9s.

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    Very Active Member futurR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUDAH-9 View Post
    My recommendation is to get rid of the PCV, and go with a Full ECU Flash from BCS. No Fuel Tuner can provide what you can get out of a fully flashed ECU. BCS’s Full ECU Flashes are producing amazing results, according to those who have received his services. Neither the FP Sharp Curve Radius exhaust or the High Flow Dual Air Intakes you have are going to increase your bike’s performance. However, the Full ECU Flash from BCS is an absolute game changer. Most, if not all, have stated it transformed their 9s into something they never thought possible or expected. Very soon, I’m removing my Fuel Tuners, and having the Full ECU Flash performed on all three of my 9s.
    While you are mostly correct, there is a flip to the above statements. As one FB member is finding out, The ECU flash appears to not be able to handle fuel corrections out side of the factory algorithm--- which is what I warned about. Meaning as you build the engine--- cams, headwork, alternate aspiration, or other work, then an ECU flash may not be able to provide what is needed for proper tuning.
    However, a proper ECU tune will more than handle what is needed for basic bolt on performance--- exhaust, intakes,...
    I am almost always working on a bike. If you have questions and need an answer quickly, just call me. 317-507-0940. Always up late. There will be time for sleep when I am dead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurR View Post
    While you are mostly correct, there is a flip to the above statements. As one FB member is finding out, The ECU flash appears to not be able to handle fuel corrections out side of the factory algorithm--- which is what I warned about. Meaning as you build the engine--- cams, headwork, alternate aspiration, or other work, then an ECU flash may not be able to provide what is needed for proper tuning.
    However, a proper ECU tune will more than handle what is needed for basic bolt on performance--- exhaust, intakes,...
    Can you expand on what you are saying above? I am having trouble following the logic.

    The TPS maps in the ECU are static so changing their value directly is no different than tuning a power commander map to ride on top the ECU TPS map.

    The timing maps are static so changing the value in the ECU will give the same result as tuning the static maps in an add on ignition module and having them ride on top the ECU ignition maps.

    The STP maps are static, so they only do what they are told like a good soldier.

    Raising the RPM limiter, and checking some boxes for a few other functions is not going to be any different regardless if the engine is built or not.

    I am sure you agree with what I have said above if you are familiar with the ECU map arrangements.

    I could agree with a statement something like, the bike itself should be tuned specifically for the engine mods done, you should not buy a ECU tune through the mail that was built for a bike that does not have engine mods. But I cannot see how tuning the ECU itself is any different than tuning the aftermarket add on's.

    Other than the IAP being a bit fluid for lack of a better word, everything else is static as far as I am aware.
    Not really understanding what would apply to any type of "Algorithm".
    Running closed loop might but I believe this is a non issue in North America.

    You have to tune the fuel and timing one way or another, I cannot see how one way is really any different than the next, except when tuning the ECU everything is done in one place and tuning with aftermarket products you would need to add many boxes to the bike.
    Fuel module, timing module, TRE, ESE, etc,
    Tuning the ECU takes the place of all these and changing the values in the ECU gives the same end result as changing the static add on maps, does it not?

    Could you give a little more information about your post above to help me better understand?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Stalker; 1 Day Ago at 12:16 AM.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    I've been on a tuner for many years now. I'll stick to that over "Sparky" giving me some junk tune he made up himself in his spare time with his trailer dyno.
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    I've been on a tuner for many years now. I'll stick to that over "Sparky" giving me some junk tune he made up himself in his spare time with his trailer dyno.
    For someone who plugged in a device on there bike, never had it dyno tuned and has no idea what AFR their bike is running at all, you seem to have a lot to say on the subject and think yourself pretty smart.

    So why don't you amaze us with your knowledge and tell us how your little tuner is so much better than something else that you have never tried or know a thing about.

    After all this is supposed to be a motorcycle forum where people come to get answers to learn or help others learn.

    Your comment above did not teach anyone anything, all it did was confirm what everyone here already knows. That you are very bitter old man with nothing constructive to say ever.

    You sir would do the world a big favor if you did not wake from your nights rest.

    That is harsh but honestly I do not care for you at all and I cannot hold my tongue any longer.

    It is not a wonder sparky left this forum. I also sent him a PM so he can see your comment.

    The next words from your mouth should be something constructive or nothing at all. Because if you decide to come back and say something stupid to me like you did with sparky, I do not live half a country away from you and can pop by at any time if we need to discuss your attitude or give it a little adjustment.

    Let's see if you are really as dumb as you portray yourself on this forum.

    If there is a moderator on this page at all, I really wish they would kick you off this forum. You are toxic and add nothing constructive. You only know how to irritate and agitate.
    Last edited by Stalker; 1 Day Ago at 08:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalker View Post
    For someone who plugged in a device on there bike, never had it dyno tuned and has no idea what AFR their bike is running at all, you seem to have a lot to say on the subject and think yourself pretty smart.

    So why don't you amaze us with your knowledge and tell us how your little tuner is so much better than something else that you have never tried or know a thing about.

    After all this is supposed to be a motorcycle forum where people come to get answers to learn or help others learn.

    Your comment above did not teach anyone anything, all it did was confirm what everyone here already knows. That you are very bitter old man with nothing constructive to say ever.

    You sir would do the world a big favor if you did not wake from your nights rest.

    That is harsh but honestly I do not care for you at all and I cannot hold my tongue any longer.

    It is not a wonder sparky left this forum. I also sent him a PM so he can see your comment.

    The next words from your mouth should be something constructive or nothing at all. Because if you decide to come back and say something stupid to me like you did with sparky, I do not live half a country away from you and can pop by at any time if we need to discuss your attitude or give it a little adjustment.

    Let's see if you are really as dumb as you portray yourself on this forum.

    If there is a moderator on this page at all, I really wish they would kick you off this forum. You are toxic and add nothing constructive. You only know how to irritate and agitate.


    Thanks for the email Stalker.
    I am going to hold back on my reply to this idiot for the rest of the day and see if an admin takes care of the situation.
    If they do not then I will come back tomorrow and blow the roof off this thread letting him have it and the admin can ban me instead.
    If they choose to ban the village idiot then I will return to this forum. If not then banning me for giving him what he has coming is fine, I do not come to this page much now because of his behavior.
    Rob will get his regardless, meeting him in person is now at the top of my bucket list of things to do before I die. I will bet much more than pocket change that his mouth is not so big when we are face to face.
    I have bigger fish to fry at the moment so going to table this for today and see if an admin steps up to take out the trash.

    I will email you back later tonight to talk more.

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 1 Day Ago at 09:47 AM.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    Why would I get banned. I didn't do anything wrong. Didn't use any foul language. Didn't insult anyone. Expressed an opinion. That's all. Go on back to your safe space at FakeBook now. I'll be putting you on IGNORE, so don't bother with any "blow him out of the water" response.

    I'm not a bitter old man. I'm perfectly happy and have many friends. And my nine runs perfectly fine, thank you very much. If I need more than that, I still have my B-King. Which will blow any M109R out of the water in a New York City Minute.

    Thinking about selling them both though. Planning on retiring in six years and don't want these money pits on my hands.
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    The next words from your mouth should be something constructive or nothing at all. Because if you decide to come back and say something stupid to me like you did with sparky, I do not live half a country away from you and can pop by at any time if we need to discuss your attitude or give it a little adjustment.


    You do know that is called Assault and Battery and is a felony? You do know I live in a state where I can carry a firearm without a license? And if you decide to be stupid, and attack me, and I feel my life is in danger, ................................
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    You do know that is called Assault and Battery and is a felony? You do know I live in a state where I can carry a firearm without a license? And if you decide to be stupid, and attack me, and I feel my life is in danger, ................................[/COLOR]
    I am not the guy that is going to beat this around with you all day.

    I can say this though, you are hands down the worst individual on here.

    It is a big bad world out there, if you are an ******* for long enough, it is eventually going to catch up to you.
    Happens everyday.

    You go out of your way to instigate and be negative at every turn with every post you make.
    I already warned you and if you are as dumb as you seem then by all means you keep flapping those gums.
    No one is going to feel sorry for you when karma catches up.
    I find it funny that you are shocked people think you need your ass kicked.
    It is pretty obvious to everyone else but you it seems.

    I am done with this and have better things to do.

    I apologies to everyone else for messing up this thread, it started out interesting.
    I was hoping to hear futurR's reply and possibly learn something new myself.
    But the same guy who knows nothing and adds nothing constructive had to jump in as usual.
    It is very hard to repeat this pattern all the time and not say something about it.
    Last edited by Stalker; 1 Day Ago at 01:28 PM.

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    Very Active Member JUDAH-9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurR View Post
    While you are mostly correct, there is a flip to the above statements. As one FB member is finding out, The ECU flash appears to not be able to handle fuel corrections out side of the factory algorithm--- which is what I warned about. Meaning as you build the engine--- cams, headwork, alternate aspiration, or other work, then an ECU flash may not be able to provide what is needed for proper tuning.
    However, a proper ECU tune will more than handle what is needed for basic bolt on performance--- exhaust, intakes,...
    I agree Matt. I remember having that conversation with you, during one of my visits to your shop, while you were working on my Crushed Chromed M109R. Your knowledge and expertise helped me immensely to have a much better understanding between the differences, advantages, and disadvantages of a Fuel Tuner versus a Partial or Full ECU Flash.
    Last edited by JUDAH-9; 19 Hours Ago at 06:33 PM.

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    I am no expert, I am barely a novice at the complexities that make up the timing/fuel system on our glorious beasts, but what I do know is that those bolt on programmers only kick in at wide open throttle. Common sense would tell anyone that if you change cam profiles, head work, forced induction, and/or nitrous, that the stock fuel system would need an upgrade as well. The ECM would not be able to adjust for boost, or when you hit the "NOS". An after market ECM and upgraded fuel pump and possibly injectors would have to come into play for an outrageous build.

    Also, I am running a flashed ECM from BCS, and all I can say is the bike is more than I imagined was possible. I know the top end of the RPM range was opened up quite a bit, (2007 M109R ), but the bottom end is incredible. Smooth, unrelenting power. I can break the tire loose pretty much in the first three gears if I hit the throttle hard coming out of a corner usually when I do not won't to. ( When the tire is cold it is useless at holding onto asphalt.) I can't see a PCV doing that.

    Just my two cents.

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    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Thanks Judah-9 and StuporDave for getting this thread back on track. I do not have a 9 anymore, but there are some (as well as myself) who are here for information and socialism. And are not here for petty pissing contest. Kinda bad the way a good informative thread could get thrown off track so bad. After all, I might be making room for M109 number 5

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