PLEASE help: m109 second gear issue
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Thread: PLEASE help: m109 second gear issue

  1. #1

    Default PLEASE help: m109 second gear issue

    I bought a 2009 M109R2, I bought it at 9k miles from a local trusted shop. I noticed when riding it first second gear was hard to get into. Ive never had any slipping (besides at really high RPMS)

    at the end of the summer second gear was even harder to get into, I have to wear steel toe boots and "shift like i mean it", Its not ridden enough to need an oil change (when sold from the shop theyre changed)

    Im scared that it is a "bent fork issue" ive been reading about

    Bike is completely stock, my main questions are is my bike going to break completely and will I have to get it rebuilt LOL, and what maintenance I should be doing on it? Preventative maintenance included, Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate any info you have to say.

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    Active Member Mxboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    I bought a 2009 M109R2, I bought it at 9k miles from a local trusted shop. I noticed when riding it first second gear was hard to get into. Ive never had any slipping (besides at really high RPMS)

    at the end of the summer second gear was even harder to get into, I have to wear steel toe boots and "shift like i mean it", Its not ridden enough to need an oil change (when sold from the shop theyre changed)

    Im scared that it is a "bent fork issue" ive been reading about

    Bike is completely stock, my main questions are is my bike going to break completely and will I have to get it rebuilt LOL, and what maintenance I should be doing on it? Preventative maintenance included, Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate any info you have to say.
    Is it hard to get in and out of neutral? Have you tried adjusting the clutch cable?

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    Very Active Member Sasnuke's Avatar
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    The 9 is notorious for having to shift into second gear like you mean it...without riding it, it may be hard to say if the shift is normal or not.
    But as Mxboost suggested, clutch cable adjustment is definitely the first place to start.
    2008 M109R2 Black - Flat black rims, Smoked turn signals, K&N Replacement filters, 2006 Exhaust Debaffled, & HealTech GiPro A-TRE G2.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    My 06 got better with age. But hey, I've had it 13 years. Maybe I just got used to it. But definitely, when I jump off my B-King onto the Nine, I can still feel it. Second gear is probably the most abused gear on a motorcycle. We all like to rev it hard in first gear, then shift into second and nail it to the wall. Lots of blown second gears out there, IMHO. I've known more than one bike rider with a bike sittin around with a blown second gear. At 13 years, I still have to shift it like I mean it.

    I use two methods, depending on how I'm riding it. Putt-putting around town, I slow shift it, making sure I can feel Neutral as I pass through it. Nice clean shifts, every time. Hightailing it, I preload the shifter. Both methods for second gear only. All the other gears shift normal on mine, at 36,100+ miles.
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
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  7. #5

    Default TY

    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    My 06 got better with age. But hey, I've had it 13 years. Maybe I just got used to it. But definitely, when I jump off my B-King onto the Nine, I can still feel it. Second gear is probably the most abused gear on a motorcycle. We all like to rev it hard in first gear, then shift into second and nail it to the wall. Lots of blown second gears out there, IMHO. I've known more than one bike rider with a bike sittin around with a blown second gear. At 13 years, I still have to shift it like I mean it.

    I use two methods, depending on how I'm riding it. Putt-putting around town, I slow shift it, making sure I can feel Neutral as I pass through it. Nice clean shifts, every time. Hightailing it, I preload the shifter. Both methods for second gear only. All the other gears shift normal on mine, at 36,100+ miles.



    Thank you so much for the replys everyone, What do you mean by Preloading the shifter? Sorry for being a newb, I am trying to learn as much as I possibly can :)

    also, what do you suggest for maintenance on it? I've never had anything other than a chain driven bike. I want to take care of this monster as much as I possibly can haha.

  8. #6

    Default TY

    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    My 06 got better with age. But hey, I've had it 13 years. Maybe I just got used to it. But definitely, when I jump off my B-King onto the Nine, I can still feel it. Second gear is probably the most abused gear on a motorcycle. We all like to rev it hard in first gear, then shift into second and nail it to the wall. Lots of blown second gears out there, IMHO. I've known more than one bike rider with a bike sittin around with a blown second gear. At 13 years, I still have to shift it like I mean it. <br>
    <br>
    I use two methods, depending on how I'm riding it. Putt-putting around town, I slow shift it, making sure I can feel Neutral as I pass through it. Nice clean shifts, every time. Hightailing it, I preload the shifter. Both methods for second gear only. All the other gears shift normal on mine, at 36,100+ miles.
    <br>
    <br><br><br><br>Thank you so much for the replys everyone, What do you mean by Preloading the shifter? Sorry for being a newb, I am trying to learn as much as I possibly can :)<br><br>also, what do you suggest for maintenance on it? I've never had anything other than a chain driven bike. I want to take care of this monster as much as I possibly can haha.&nbsp;<br><br><br>

  9. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mxboost View Post
    Is it hard to get in and out of neutral? Have you tried adjusting the clutch cable?



    You can audibly hear a clunk when going into first, not too bad though. I am just paranoid of something expensive breaking and everyone talking about their second gear exploding has me worried haha. I have not tried adjusting the clutch cable, I just looked up a video on it. Should I be going tighter or looser?

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    Very Active Member UVATom's Avatar
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    When going from neutral to first all bikes tend to make a sound and even jerk from time to time. Just make sure to wait a second or two after pulling in the clutch before shifting. When going from first to second the 9 is hard to shift from time to time as well. It is hard to tell without riding it to know how abnormal yours might be.

    The best and really only maintenance is the oil. Mileage is not the only reason oil needs changing. I would change it at least once a year no matter the miles.

    There are a number of articles about adjusting the clutch. This is definitely your first thing to check. I would take it by the shop and just see what they think if you don't feel comfortable diagnosing it. They should be able to let you know if it is normal or not without charging you anything.

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    Very Active Member Sasnuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    You can audibly hear a clunk when going into first, not too bad though. I am just paranoid of something expensive breaking and everyone talking about their second gear exploding has me worried haha. I have not tried adjusting the clutch cable, I just looked up a video on it. Should I be going tighter or looser?
    There is an adjustment range, so once you're within the range you're good.
    To best answer you question I'd say you want to be on the looser side. As you accelerate and the motor torques it will tighten the cable...so you don't want it tight to begin with...that's how they snap.
    2008 M109R2 Black - Flat black rims, Smoked turn signals, K&N Replacement filters, 2006 Exhaust Debaffled, & HealTech GiPro A-TRE G2.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    Thank you so much for the replys everyone, What do you mean by Preloading the shifter? Sorry for being a newb, I am trying to learn as much as I possibly can :)

    also, what do you suggest for maintenance on it? I've never had anything other than a chain driven bike. I want to take care of this monster as much as I possibly can haha.
    Preloading is where you lift the shifter up until there is pressure on it. Lightly, it doesn't take a ton of pressure for it to work. Then, when you pull in the clutch lever, the shift happens fast and somewhat smoother. Some here will say it causes wear on the shifting parts, forks I believe. What the heck, I've been doing it 13 years and 36,000 + miles. Hasn't caused one problem on mine. .

    As far as maintenance on a shaft drive bike, just change the rear end oil every couple years or so. Myself and some others on here just change it when we change the oil. It may be too much, but it won't hurt anything. Changing the rear drive oil is quick, easy and doesn't take a lot of oil to do. With the rear end warm, since you rode the bike to get the oil hot, pull the lower drain and upper fill plug and let the oil all run out. Then put the plug in, pour in oil til it starts to run out the hole. Put the fill plug back in, clean up the mess and go riding. IIRC, a quart of gear oil does about three changes. I use the same stuff I use in my Lightning, 75/140. That's not what the bike takes, but it doesn't hurt anything. It's what I have in my garage, so I use it.
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    Very Active Member UVATom's Avatar
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    I have been meaning to get back on here to reply after reading your OP again. You mention steel toed boots so how much pressure is it taking? It shouldn't take hardly any pressure to shift any gears. The biggest issue typically is missing second and hitting neutral when shifting.
    Last edited by UVATom; 01-10-2020 at 06:32 PM.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UVATom View Post
    I have been meaning to get back on here to reply after reading your OP again. You mention steel toed boots so how much pressure is it taking? It shouldn't take hardly any pressure to shift any gears. The biggest issue typically is missing second and hitting neutral when shifting.
    That only happens to me at second if I don't shift it like I mean it. Once or twice a year, I suffer from lazy foot on the second shift, and it jumps out of gear. Otherwise, mine stays put and I can whip it like a rented mule as soon as it's engaged.
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    That only happens to me at second if I don't shift it like I mean it. Once or twice a year, I suffer from lazy foot on the second shift, and it jumps out of gear. Otherwise, mine stays put and I can whip it like a rented mule as soon as it's engaged.


    Thank you so much for the replys everyone, you have been very helpful. And same here, only happens at second if I dont shift it like I mean it haha. I ride it hard, dont get me wrong. But I do not have any issues when riding slow and safe lol.

    Would you say that this bike would be incredibly hard to race off of a line? Considering the 2nd gear and all, I usually pull in the clutch for about two seconds and let the RPMS drop and then put it into second. Not easy to tap thru the gears accelerating quickly

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    Does anyone still install the Hayabusa shift star? I bought my 9 in winter 11 years ago and one of the things that was recommended was the shift star that I did before I ever rode it. Could this help with his issue? I forget what the point of it was.

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    Very Active Member M109Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criomega View Post
    Does anyone still install the Hayabusa shift star? I bought my 9 in winter 11 years ago and one of the things that was recommended was the shift star that I did before I ever rode it. Could this help with his issue? I forget what the point of it was.
    The earlier models still benefit from it. The newer models have a similar shift star in them. Someone posted a comparisons of the earlier stock, EVO shift star and the newer 9 star. Its suppose to smooth out the shift and shorten the throw. For me if it did smooth out the shift I really couldnt tell. But it did shorten the shift throw though. I still think its worth it.

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    Very Active Member tinman357's Avatar
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    I have a 2009 with 34.000 miles put shift star in at 20.000 should of did it sooner,not perfect but it helped that shift to second by 60 percent. As I put more miles on it is shifting better. But starting to get the dreaded shudder 3 to 8 times in 2500 miles.

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    Very Active Member futurR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M109Dreamer View Post
    The earlier models still benefit from it. The newer models have a similar shift star in them. Someone posted a comparisons of the earlier stock, EVO shift star and the newer 9 star. Its suppose to smooth out the shift and shorten the throw. For me if it did smooth out the shift I really couldnt tell. But it did shorten the shift throw though. I still think its worth it.

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    Well,that earlier info on the shift star was wrong. The part number on that oem shift star is the same from from 2006 to 2019.I have seen no difference on the oem star. The EVO star has not changed also. Just some food for thought.
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    Very Active Member M109Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurR View Post
    Well,that earlier info on the shift star was wrong. The part number on that oem shift star is the same from from 2006 to 2019.I have seen no difference on the oem star. The EVO star has not changed also. Just some food for thought.
    Could they of changed it but kept the same number....I know prob not huh? I could of swore someone posted pics of it but I cant seem to find it anymore with a lot of the pics here lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinman357 View Post
    I have a 2009 with 34.000 miles put shift star in at 20.000 should of did it sooner,not perfect but it helped that shift to second by 60 percent. As I put more miles on it is shifting better. But starting to get the dreaded shudder 3 to 8 times in 2500 miles.

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    woah what do you mean "dreaded shudder" ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    I bought a 2009 M109R2, I bought it at 9k miles from a local trusted shop. I noticed when riding it first second gear was hard to get into. Ive never had any slipping (besides at really high RPMS)

    at the end of the summer second gear was even harder to get into, I have to wear steel toe boots and "shift like i mean it", Its not ridden enough to need an oil change (when sold from the shop theyre changed)

    Im scared that it is a "bent fork issue" ive been reading about

    Bike is completely stock, my main questions are is my bike going to break completely and will I have to get it rebuilt LOL, and what maintenance I should be doing on it? Preventative maintenance included, Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate any info you have to say.
    High RPM shifts from 1st to 2nd are just something you can't do on this bike. Use 1st to get the bike moving at low RPM and then get into 2nd before you get on it.
    2008 Blue/White C109RT waiting for the aftermarket to catch up....

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    Very Active Member tinman357's Avatar
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    The dreaded shutter is something to expect when owning a m109r.some get it sooner than others. There is a bunch of treads on how to get rid of it.mine happens a couple times a riding season,soon I will replace clutch plates for the newer m109r.

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    Very Active Member mlrman's Avatar
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    I hate to be the bearer of bad news here. My 07 has the second gear issue. I followed the service manual and started at the clutch set screw, then worked my way toward the lever to insure proper clutch adjustment. M109's are known for clunky shifts from 1st to second, and they must be made with force.

    That being said, mine started "skipping" under acceleration in second gear. ONLY second gear. Then, it started popping out of second gear under acceleration. Holding the shifter upwards with your foot into second gear helped, but it WILL only get worse.

    The internal shift fork bends from the torque of these motors, allowing second gear to pop out. The cases must be split, shift fork replaced, and the gears back cut.

    Unfortunately, as much as I love my 109, I've decided to take the loss and sell as is.

    I wish you the best of luck with yours no matter what you decide to do.
    Last edited by mlrman; 01-26-2020 at 07:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlrman View Post
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news here. My 07 has the second gear issue. I followed the service manual and started at the clutch set screw, then worked my way toward the lever to insure proper clutch adjustment. !09's are known for clunky shifts from 1st to second, and they must be made with force.

    That being said, mine started "skipping" under acceleration in second gear. ONLY second gear. Then, it started popping out of second gear under acceleration. Holding the shifter upwards with your foot into second gear helped, but it WILL only get worse.

    The internal shift fork bends from the torque of these motors, allowing second gear to pop out. The cases must be split, shift fork replaced, and the gears back cut.

    Unfortunately, as much as I love my 109, I've decided to take the loss and sell as is.

    I wish you the best of luck with yours no matter what you decide to do.

    Oh goodness, this isn't good to hear haha. I was thinking of selling mine before anything happened. What bike did you get? Did you get a different one?

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    Very Active Member mlrman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    Oh goodness, this isn't good to hear haha. I was thinking of selling mine before anything happened. What bike did you get? Did you get a different one?
    Yeah' it's a bummer. I loved my 109! I will tell you from personal experience, your second gear issue will only get worse....

    BUT KEEP IN MIND THIS ONLY APPLIES IF YOURS IS POPPING OUT OF SECOND GEAR!! If it is JUST a clunky shift from 1st to second, that's different:

    Personally, I couldn't sell mine at market price, knowing the buyer would eventually find out the issue (under hard acceleration in 2nd, which is what M109 owners do, haha).

    Now, I'm trying to unload mine for $2000, and can't even do that (it's even listed here). No one wants a bike with second gear issues.

    Sorry, my friend. You have three choices,

    1) sell it as is and take a huge loss

    2) have a shop fix it at a huge cost

    3) take out the engine yourself, and have a shop fix it at less of a huge cost.+

    You will need the shift fork replaced, and the gears backcut.

    Good luck
    Last edited by mlrman; 01-26-2020 at 07:47 PM.

  27. #25
    Very Active Member mlrman's Avatar
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    If yours is just a clunky shift and/or clutch shudder on take off, the 2012 and up clutch mod will help with this. Search here, and feel free to PM me. It helped mine a lot.

  28. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlrman View Post
    If yours is just a clunky shift and/or clutch shudder on take off, the 2012 and up clutch mod will help with this. Search here, and feel free to PM me. It helped mine a lot.

    It hasn't "popped out" of second before, just hard to shift into second. Maybe once or twice it has but I dont know if that is rider error or mechanical.

    In my area they go for 8k with no issues, do I get out of this as soon as I can lol? My uncle works on bikes, but he is 10 hours away.. Thats the only way id get it repaired.

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    Very Active Member mlrman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    It hasn't "popped out" of second before, just hard to shift into second. Maybe once or twice it has but I dont know if that is rider error or mechanical.

    In my area they go for 8k with no issues, do I get out of this as soon as I can lol? My uncle works on bikes, but he is 10 hours away.. Thats the only way id get it repaired.
    Make sure you get a good, solid shift into 2nd gear and hammer it. Repeatedly. If it doesn't "skip" or "pop" out of gear, I'd say you're OK, so invest in the +2012 clutch mod, and possibly a shift star mod. I really loved the +2012 clutch mod in mine. Made a big difference. Good luck. As always, this is just my opinion

  30. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlrman View Post
    Make sure you get a good, solid shift into 2nd gear and hammer it. Repeatedly. If it doesn't "skip" or "pop" out of gear, I'd say you're OK, so invest in the +2012 clutch mod, and possibly a shift star mod. I really loved the +2012 clutch mod in mine. Made a big difference. Good luck. As always, this is just my opinion

    Thank you, ive been reading about it. I also have to engage clutch twice to get into first gear.

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    Very Active Member tinman357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtrain View Post
    Thank you, ive been reading about it. I also have to engage clutch twice to get into first gear.
    Normal

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    Member Un0nueve's Avatar
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    Does anyone know what's the problem when 2nd gear jerks at 4rpm or higher? I've seen some very old posts about it, but couldn't find a post of someone finding the problem or getting it fixed

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