Clutch slipping after oil change with rotella 15w40
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Thread: Clutch slipping after oil change with rotella 15w40

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    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Default Clutch slipping after oil change with rotella 15w40

    Just change the oil on my 07 m109r with 15w40 rotella synthetic oil and today the bike started to slips or jerky only on first gear but not every time. fine on all other gears, I put 4 full qts of oil cause that was the amount of oil I took out, when I got home I checked the dipstick and it was overfilled, so I did the 15/3 method and remove about half of qts , could the slipping be caused by overfilling with oil?.First time doing the oil change since I got the bike. The bike has 19500 miles. I haven't ride the bike since I pull the oil out

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    Very Active Member M109Dreamer's Avatar
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    I've been running the Rotella T6 for years without any issues. Might want to switch back to a dino oil and see if it helps.

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    The answer may lie in the fact Rotella is a diesel engine oil, not designed for motorcycle engine's with wet clutches.
    I know I know Fred Blogs runs a 1929 Indian on old chip fat with no issues, but if one oil did all do you think oil companies would make so many.

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    Radio Active Member rynosback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prospector View Post
    The answer may lie in the fact Rotella is a diesel engine oil, not designed for motorcycle engine's with wet clutches.
    I know I know Fred Blogs runs a 1929 Indian on old chip fat with no issues, but if one oil did all do you think oil companies would make so many.
    It is alot more then “Diesel engine oil”. I ran T6 in my 9 for about a decade before I sold it. This oil meets and beats the requirement set by Suzuki.
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    Very Active Member Montanalg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynosback View Post
    It is alot more then “Diesel engine oil”. I ran T6 in my 9 for about a decade before I sold it. This oil meets and beats the requirement set by Suzuki.
    I agree..over 10 years with Rotella and no problems

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    Very Active Member futurR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    Just change the oil on my 07 m109r with 15w40 rotella synthetic oil and today the bike started to slips or jerky only on first gear but not every time. fine on all other gears, I put 4 full qts of oil cause that was the amount of oil I took out, when I got home I checked the dipstick and it was overfilled, so I did the 15/3 method and remove about half of qts , could the slipping be caused by overfilling with oil?.First time doing the oil change since I got the bike. The bike has 19500 miles. I haven't ride the bike since I pull the oil out
    Actually you need to supply a bit more info. Does the "slipping" only occur when you let out on the clutch in first gear? Is that when the "jerking" occurs?
    It could very well be clutch shudder you are feeling. Has any of the clutch plates been updated?
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    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurR View Post
    Does the "slipping" only occur when you let out on the clutch in first gear? Is that when the "jerking" occurs?
    It could very well be clutch shudder you are feeling. Has any of the clutch plates been updated?
    I'm not a mechanic, but the above response is what I would suspect. I have owned 4 M109's and have a bit of experience with them. My 06 had clutch shutter at around 23k miles. Not terrible, but something that caught my attention. I also test drove an 07 for a buddy of mine. His also has clutch shutter. It doesn't happen every time, but it can be annoying after a while, and it will eventually get worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklightning View Post
    I'm not a mechanic, but the above response is what I would suspect. I have owned 4 M109's and have a bit of experience with them. My 06 had clutch shutter at around 23k miles. Not terrible, but something that caught my attention. I also test drove an 07 for a buddy of mine. His also has clutch shutter. It doesn't happen every time, but it can be annoying after a while, and it will eventually get worse.
    this is about the bike is doing and not always

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZxJtMBJZfE

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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    this is about the bike is doing and not always

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZxJtMBJZfE
    Well that is NOT clutch slipping. That is at least clutch shudder, but it is not completely clear in the video.
    I am almost always working on a bike. If you have questions and need an answer quickly, just call me. 317-507-0940. Always up late. There will be time for sleep when I am dead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurR View Post
    Well that is NOT clutch slipping. That is at least clutch shudder, but it is not completely clear in the video.
    ok but why it happened with just an oil change?

    if you look at the rear tire you can see it on the second pull the guy does
    Last edited by pontiaco1; 1 Week Ago at 12:40 PM.

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    Very Active Member Chilly Rock's Avatar
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    +1 for Rotella T6...running it nearly 10 yrs no problems.

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    Since all you did was change your oil
    And it’s free to do I would check my clutch cable for frays at top first then the bottom.
    I agree with Matt as usual,that is not slipping.
    Maybe your clutch cable just went bad at the same time .


    lol I thought this turned into a oil thread

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    Very Active Member asillito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prospector View Post
    The answer may lie in the fact Rotella is a diesel engine oil, not designed for motorcycle engine's with wet clutches.
    I know I know Fred Blogs runs a 1929 Indian on old chip fat with no issues, but if one oil did all do you think oil companies would make so many.
    I'm sorry ... but you are NOT correct. T6 has the JASO spec and is fine for motorcycles with wet clutches. I've been using T6 for over 10 years with no issues. Any oil with the JASO spec is fine.
    Power, looks and style ... nuff said !!

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    Very Active Member asillito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    Just change the oil on my 07 m109r with 15w40 rotella synthetic oil and today the bike started to slips or jerky only on first gear but not every time. fine on all other gears, I put 4 full qts of oil cause that was the amount of oil I took out, when I got home I checked the dipstick and it was overfilled, so I did the 15/3 method and remove about half of qts , could the slipping be caused by overfilling with oil?.First time doing the oil change since I got the bike. The bike has 19500 miles. I haven't ride the bike since I pull the oil out
    Which Rotella did you use ? I believe only the full synth T6 has the JASO spec. The JASO spec makes it compatible with bikes and wet clutches. Overfilling should not effect the motor in any way except it may 'barf' up oil thru the air filter.
    Power, looks and style ... nuff said !!

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    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asillito View Post
    Which Rotella did you use ? I believe only the full synth T6 has the JASO spec. The JASO spec makes it compatible with bikes and wet clutches. Overfilling should not effect the motor in any way except it may 'barf' up oil thru the air filter.
    I couldn't find the reference (I think it's on the jug) but Rotella T4/Dino says they "meet JASO" requirements... but didn't pay to have it certified as same. Mmeh. Popular opinion from the Oil Nerds, and many personal anecdotes confirm that the 15w40 T4/Dino is JASO compliant notwithstanding you are of course correct that it is not JASO certified.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post
    I couldn't find the reference (I think it's on the jug) but Rotella T4/Dino says they "meet JASO" requirements... but didn't pay to have it certified as same. Mmeh. Popular opinion from the Oil Nerds, and many personal anecdotes confirm that the 15w40 T4/Dino is JASO compliant notwithstanding you are of course correct that it is not JASO certified.
    ...replying to myself... the T4 may now be properly branded, I haven't checked.
    Quote Originally Posted by from_2008
    We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple
    Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be
    introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.
    All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic
    5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not
    be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection
    15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do
    meet JASO MA."

    If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
    Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

    Richard Moore
    Staff Engineer
    Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.
    Westhollow Technology Center, PO Box 4327, Houston, TX 77210, United
    States of America


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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Don't want to debate this or make a huge discussion out of this because I honestly could not care one way or the other.

    But Shell is the Hydrocracked king.......and Rotella T6 full synthetic is actually not full synthetic at all, if you look at the base group it is listed as group 3, which is conventional oil.

    The oil is very highly refined and synthesized which is why it is allowed be marketed and sold as full synthetic.

    But traditionally before the hydrocracking techniques came about full synthetic oil would have been group 4 which are PAO and Ester base.

    Again not saying there is anything wrong with Rotella, lots of people have used it in their bikes for a long time and I know lots of guys who use it in there diesel trucks as well.

    I am just throwing this bit of trivia out there....do with it what you will. (This is all well documented fact and easily confirmed)

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 1 Week Ago at 05:22 PM.

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    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    Don't want to debate this or make a huge discussion out of this because I honestly could not care one way or the other.

    But Shell is the Hydrocracked king.......and Rotella T6 full synthetic is actually not full synthetic at all, if you look at the base group it is listed as group 3, which is conventional oil.

    The oil is very highly refined and synthesized which is why it is allowed be marketed and sold as full synthetic.

    But traditionally before the hydrocracking techniques came about full synthetic oil would have been group 4 which are PAO and Ester base.

    Again not saying there is anything wrong with Rotella, lots of people have used it in their bikes for a long time and I know lots of guys who use it in there diesel trucks as well.

    I am just throwing this bit of trivia out there....do with it what you will. (This is all well documented fact and easily confirmed)

    BCS
    Funny that Rotella is being discussed. I have a 2017 5.0 mustang. They call for 5W20 oil and 5W30 for "extreme race conditions". Well the new 5.0 has a tendency to have a tick what is known as the "typewriter" tick when you first change the oil. This is well documented by ford, but they say that it is well within specs, and there is nothing wrong. Well, I do know of quite of few mustangs that have been s/c and are running well over 700 rwhp with no issues. But this tick is still concerning for anyone who has purchased an upwards of $30k vehicle. Well some have been able to get rid of the tick by going with the Rotella diesel oil. Not sure of the vescosity, but it is pretty thick (something like 20/50 or higher). This has nearly always eliminated the tick, but it also voids any powertrain warranty.

    But back to the bike, yes, I think it might have something to do with your clutch cable. What I saw in the video doesn't seem to be the typical clutch shutter. Besides, clutch shutter tends to come on gradually, doing it on occasions, and then getting worse. Not just happening all at once. If it was me, I would check and lube the clutch cable, and maybe just go ahead and do another full oil change just to make yourself feel better. Good luck.

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    Sounds like clutch shudder for sure if an 07. Let it idle a few minutes it may not shudder if you do that on start up. A new clutch fixed mine, I didn't know about this issue and clutch went at 14000km. Never had to replace clutch in over 250,000km of driving otherwise


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    Don't want to debate this or make a huge discussion out of this because I honestly could not care one way or the other.

    But Shell is the Hydrocracked king.......and Rotella T6 full synthetic is actually not full synthetic at all, if you look at the base group it is listed as group 3, which is conventional oil.

    The oil is very highly refined and synthesized which is why it is allowed be marketed and sold as full synthetic.

    But traditionally before the hydrocracking techniques came about full synthetic oil would have been group 4 which are PAO and Ester base.

    Again not saying there is anything wrong with Rotella, lots of people have used it in their bikes for a long time and I know lots of guys who use it in there diesel trucks as well.

    I am just throwing this bit of trivia out there....do with it what you will. (This is all well documented fact and easily confirmed)

    BCS

    ... too late.
    Lol.


    Ok so another 2¢ to protect against the functional inference that Rotella T6 < Full Synthetic.

    Some interesting reading on the topic for those like me who may have more time than sense (here, here, here, here, and here). What seems consistent is that Group III (hydrocracked dino's), IV (PAO's) and V (ester, etc.) oils and their blends, each have their proper place. Driving a vehicle in NASCAR is different than driving a van to soccer which is different than driving an M109R down the highway; each has its own base oil requirements - keeping in mind that putting NASCAR designed oil in your bike won't likely hurt anything more than your wallet. Apparently a fact: Some modern Group III's can now outperform Group IV's... for less dollars.

    I would therefore wish to caution any conclusions which would automatically conclude a "Full Synthetic" (arguably, a marketing term and not a distinct class of lubricant - i.e. a Group III oil can be marketed as "Full Synthetic" ever since Castrol beat Mobil's lawsuit on the topic) is automatically superior to the point of necessary simply because it is claiming to be synthetic and not because it is designed for a specific purpose (i.e. JASO-Mxxx).

    So while oil purists would argue that Rotella T6 is not an unnecessarily expensive "fully synthetic" oil, they may be chemically accurate... but as the courts have confirmed, not functionally accurate, especially depending on their end-use goals.


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    Very Active Member asillito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradSmith View Post
    Sounds like clutch shudder for sure if an 07. Let it idle a few minutes it may not shudder if you do that on start up. A new clutch fixed mine, I didn't know about this issue and clutch went at 14000km. Never had to replace clutch in over 250,000km of driving otherwise


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    Clutch shutter is quite common and if you do some searches on this site you see write-ups about doing the 'pin mod'.
    Power, looks and style ... nuff said !!

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post


    So while oil purists would argue that Rotella T6 is not an unnecessarily expensive "fully synthetic" oil, they may be chemically accurate... but as the courts have confirmed, not functionally accurate, especially depending on their end-use goals.
    Hmm, have not seen many lawyers or a judges spinning a wrench?

    BCS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    Hmm, have not seen many lawyers or a judges spinning a wrench?

    BCS
    Haha... no doubt, right!! They sure can spin a good tale though!
    Seems they successfully argued they should be allowed to call a Group III a Synthetic lubricant based on performance rather than chemistry. A clever approach, to be sure. Sadly their success reduces the term to a functional marketing claim vs. a reliable description of its chemical content, muddying the water (or the oil...). Either way, I don't race my bike and change the oil every 6 months so even the T4 I'm using is probably already overkill... ha.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post
    Haha... no doubt, right!! They sure can spin a good tale though!
    Seems they successfully argued they should be allowed to call a Group III a Synthetic lubricant based on performance rather than chemistry. A clever approach, to be sure. Sadly their success reduces the term to a functional marketing claim vs. a reliable description of its chemical content, muddying the water (or the oil...). Either way, I don't race my bike and change the oil every 6 months so even the T4 I'm using is probably already overkill... ha.
    So using that same logic I can call myself a NASCAR Driver......since I drive really fast and make left turns well.
    Just need to find some sponsors and that multi-million dollar paycheck to make the transformation complete.

    BCS

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