Turn lights not blinking after Led swap
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Thread: Turn lights not blinking after Led swap

  1. #1
    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Default Turn lights not blinking after Led swap

    Hello guys, wondering if you can help me, I have a '07 M109R and I just swap the turn signals to led and now they don't work, lights will stay on solid, they won't flash and in my dash panel they stay on also stay on, I did some research and people talk about changing the relay but they don't give out a part number or location of relay.

    here the ones I got from ebay

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-....c100667.m2042


    thanks for your help!

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  3. #2
    Active Member Gary E's Avatar
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    When I installed my custom dynamics led turn signal and brake lights, I had to install an led flasher relay.
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  4. #3
    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary E View Post
    When I installed my custom dynamics led turn signal and brake lights, I had to install an led flasher relay.
    where you get it from , part #??

    thanks

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    Active Member Gary E's Avatar
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    I ordered it from custom dynamics. The part number is M109EDFR

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    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary E View Post
    I ordered it from custom dynamics. The part number is M109EDFR

    thank you!!!

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    Active Member Gary E's Avatar
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    You're welcome.

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    Very Active Member Fishman349's Avatar
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    I think you need a bulb. Does one side blink? If it does turn the side on that does not flash and the front or rear will be on, so change the bulb that does not light up. Sorry, just re-read the LED part of your post.
    Last edited by Fishman349; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:04 PM.
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    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Hey pontiaco.
    The LED's you picked have 3 wires as required for front signals, but I am guessing they are expecting <12V on the "Running" wire (on yours - white wire "Signal Light Lo Beam"). On your stock lights, this connects to a different filament which runs half-bright at 12V. Either that or you have them connected wrong.

    You should have your signals connected like this (but will still need to fix the +12V problem):

    LEFT LED:
    RED led = SIGNAL = BLACK on bike (becomes LIME GREEN at harness) ** SEE 2-WIRE NOTE
    WHITE led wire = RUNNING = GREEN on bike (becomes ORG/GRN at harness)
    BLACK led wire = GND = BLK/WHT on bike (GND is always BLK/WHT)

    RIGHT LED:
    RED led = SIGNAL = BLACK on bike (stays BLK at harness) ** SEE 2-WIRE NOTE
    WHITE led wire = RUNNING = GREEN on bike (becomes ORG/GRN at harness)
    BLACK led wire = GND = BLK/WHT on bike (GND is always BLK/WHT)

    The problem is, they are getting a full 12V on the WHITE line, and are lighting up just like you are asking them to. 2-WIRE NOTE: If the WHITE line does not reduce the brightness internally in the signal housing (as I suspect it doesnt), you will need to treat these lights like any TWO WIRE LED signal setup, by using only the RED and BLACK on each and refer to this post for how to fix a "2 wire LED into a 3 wire signal light":

    (https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sh...=1#post3930394)

    There is a solution reference to fix your issue for 2-wire LED's you will need to adapt to your 3-wire solution by choosing to use ONLY the BLACK+RED wires on your lights. There is also a link to a PLUG AND PLAY replacement for your flasher relay unit (which you will ALSO need once they are working or they will fast-flash - but the relay is not currently your no-flash problem) There is also a reference to a 3rd option for full on/off which doesn't apply to you (that solution is for rear lights or aux flashers).

    Hope this helps.
    NSF
    Last edited by NoSetFine; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:15 AM. Reason: fixed 2wire vs 3wire setup


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    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post
    Hey pontiaco.
    The LED's you picked have 3 wires as required for front signals, but I am guessing they are expecting <12V on the "Running" wire (on yours - white wire "Signal Light Lo Beam"). On your stock lights, this connects to a different filament which runs half-bright at 12V. Either that or you have them connected wrong.

    You should have your signals connected like this (but will still need to fix the +12V problem):

    LEFT LED:
    RED led = SIGNAL = BLACK on bike (becomes LIME GREEN at harness) ** SEE 2-WIRE NOTE
    WHITE led wire = RUNNING = GREEN on bike (becomes ORG/GRN at harness)
    BLACK led wire = GND = BLK/WHT on bike (GND is always BLK/WHT)

    RIGHT LED:
    RED led = SIGNAL = BLACK on bike (stays BLK at harness) ** SEE 2-WIRE NOTE
    WHITE led wire = RUNNING = GREEN on bike (becomes ORG/GRN at harness)
    BLACK led wire = GND = BLK/WHT on bike (GND is always BLK/WHT)

    The problem is, they are getting a full 12V on the WHITE line, and are lighting up just like you are asking them to. 2-WIRE NOTE: If the WHITE line does not reduce the brightness internally in the signal housing (as I suspect it doesnt), you will need to treat these lights like any TWO WIRE LED signal setup, by using only the RED and BLACK on each and refer to this post for how to fix a "2 wire LED into a 3 wire signal light":

    (https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sh...=1#post3930394)

    There is a solution reference to fix your issue for 2-wire LED's you will need to adapt to your 3-wire solution by choosing to use ONLY the BLACK+RED wires on your lights. There is also a link to a PLUG AND PLAY replacement for your flasher relay unit (which you will ALSO need once they are working or they will fast-flash - but the relay is not currently your no-flash problem) There is also a reference to a 3rd option for full on/off which doesn't apply to you (that solution is for rear lights or aux flashers).

    Hope this helps.
    NSF
    thanks I will check it out,

    what about the rear turn signals
    Last edited by pontiaco1; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:50 PM.

  12. #10
    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    thanks I will check it out,

    what about the rear turn signals
    Rear signals are easy.
    Just hook them up - the existing signals are 2 wire. You can connect your new set using Black and Red to the existing wires at the back. The difference is there is no RUNNING light at the rear signals. The plug-and-play signal relay however replaces your stock relay which does ALL your signal lights in one shot. So that part is a one-time only solution for everything.

    I just checked - you may be able to use Blinker Genie to fix the FRONT signals, including the Running light. Im not 100%, but maybe you can check that. Will save you the hassle of building on yourself with diodes and resistors.

    TO BE CLEAR: The *Relay* is to fix the "hyperflash" problem you *will* encounter if you switch to LED signals. One relay fixes all signals. The *Blinker Genie* is specifically for dealing with 3 wire to 2 wire LED systems, and I ...believe... it can handle running light plus signal light. It may run your LED's full bright then blink during turn - that might be the tradeoff to "dim" running lights with full blink lights... anyway... check out Blinker Genie for the front signals.
    Last edited by NoSetFine; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:36 PM.


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    Ok guys I had order the led relay and now everything works except the the signal light are staying solid on in the dashboard, they blink and go a little brighter but stay on.

    I have already order the blinker gennie , wondering if it would fix that problem

  14. #12
    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    Ok guys I had order the led relay and now everything works except the the signal light are staying solid on in the dashboard, they blink and go a little brighter but stay on.

    I have already order the blinker gennie , wondering if it would fix that problem
    I have every confidence the Genie will fix that problem for you - your LED's will light FULL bright as running lights, then BLINK full on/full off for turn signals. What you are currently seeing is a "running light" voltage at 12V and then "a little more than 12V" pulsing during turn signal. Not proper. The genie will likely only use TWO of your LED wires - Black and Red or Black and White, shouldn't matter, then all 3 of your bike wires. Post an update when you get it!

    NSF


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    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post
    I have every confidence the Genie will fix that problem for you - your LED's will light FULL bright as running lights, then BLINK full on/full off for turn signals. What you are currently seeing is a "running light" voltage at 12V and then "a little more than 12V" pulsing during turn signal. Not proper. The genie will likely only use TWO of your LED wires - Black and Red or Black and White, shouldn't matter, then all 3 of your bike wires. Post an update when you get it!

    NSF

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    Very Active Member Hogan109r's Avatar
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    https://www.google.com/search?q=blin...&client=safari


    This will fix the problem. A lot of MAM riders have it on their bike.
    Nosetfine is correct!

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    Very Active Member Sledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    Ok guys I had order the led relay and now everything works except the the signal light are staying solid on in the dashboard, they blink and go a little brighter but stay on.

    I have already order the blinker gennie , wondering if it would fix that problem
    This happened to me when I installed my Flatz. The problem was I mixed up the ground wires with the running light wires. I swapped them and the issue went away.

  18. #16
    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    thank you guys the Genie worked, all good now but I kind of like to have running lights on my rear turn signals, looks cool to me

  19. #17
    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontiaco1 View Post
    thank you guys the Genie worked, all good now but I kind of like to have running lights on my rear turn signals, looks cool to me
    Hey cool! Glad that worked out!

    For the rear, if you want "dimmed run"/full turn/full brake on your turn signals, there are a few options. The main problem is matching the "running light" brightness of the turn signals to the brake light. Having full-bright turn signals on/off with half-bright brake could be confusing or distracting for drivers behind you (is he braking or not?!) which is what the Blinker Genie would do in the rear as it doesn't handle dimmed running circuits AFAIK.

    You have a few options form rear Run/Brake/Turn - DIY like this, (experiment with resistor to get correct dimmed brightness to match brake...) or something prefab like this which you may not be able to match the dim-ness. Note that both these solutions would blink as dim-full-dim-full which is fairly standard, instead of dim.... ful-on-full-off-full-on-full-off... dim... which costs more - Custom Dynamics Triple Play for example is $90 for that... ouch... but programmable. You would also need to tap into the "running" light wire going to the brake - you rear turn signals will not have one of those.


  20. #18
    Member pontiaco1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post
    Hey cool! Glad that worked out!

    For the rear, if you want "dimmed run"/full turn/full brake on your turn signals, there are a few options. The main problem is matching the "running light" brightness of the turn signals to the brake light. Having full-bright turn signals on/off with half-bright brake could be confusing or distracting for drivers behind you (is he braking or not?!) which is what the Blinker Genie would do in the rear as it doesn't handle dimmed running circuits AFAIK.

    You have a few options form rear Run/Brake/Turn - DIY like this, (experiment with resistor to get correct dimmed brightness to match brake...) or something prefab like this which you may not be able to match the dim-ness. Note that both these solutions would blink as dim-full-dim-full which is fairly standard, instead of dim.... ful-on-full-off-full-on-full-off... dim... which costs more - Custom Dynamics Triple Play for example is $90 for that... ouch... but programmable. You would also need to tap into the "running" light wire going to the brake - you rear turn signals will not have one of those.
    cool I'm going to check it out, thanks

  21. #19
    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    This will either totally confuse the situation or help... if not for yourself then the next person...

    I created a working simulation of the DIY rear signal solution in case "seeing" it helps anyone.
    It is based on this written version (which I didn't make).
    Check out the attached image for instructions then check this link for the simulation.

    Notes:
    • This will give you: Dim-FULL-Dim rear turn signals.
    • The brake light will not (can not) affect the signals. Trying to do so would create the "Brake Override" problem - brake lights would defeat the turn signals. To overcome this and allow run/brake/turn you would need a switching circuit to cut power to the brake feed when the turn signal is sensed. Doable, but not as easy as this example.
    • Note in the simulator, the "running" lights are very dim - not much different than "OFF"... but they ARE running.
    • Also, the RESISTOR VALUES ON SIMULATOR ARE NOT ACCURATE for your situation - refer to the written version and/or test for yourself for suggested resistor values.
    • Everything on the BOARD = BIKE, you don't need to build that part. Only the few bits to the RIGHT of the board.


    Good luck.

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