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Andy’s Build Thread- Transmission Issues.

9K views 56 replies 12 participants last post by  Andy33 
#1 ·
Figured it was about time for a build thread as this years winters mods are a bit outside my knowledge and I'll need some help from the forum again.

First a bit of history.
2009 M109R LE
I purchased it from the original owner in Feb 2010. The bike had 3990 km on it at the time. The bike has 48,905 km on it now.

Been a forum member since I got the bike. Have done all the maintenance and mods myself.
On top of what's shown in my signature I've done;

  • Front Motor Mounts
  • Wheel Bearings
  • Fork Seals
  • Side Burner Exhaust (replaced with Freedoms)
  • Fuel Filter
  • Spark Plugs
  • TRE
  • Various chrome covers
  • New front brake lines (+3 Galfer SS)

I'm sure there are things I'm forgetting. Either way I'm no stranger to the bike.

A few pics of the bike in its current state. These are all from my trip through BC in June.

  • I guess I should update my profile photo too.
  • Also need help rotating photos

Tire Wheel Vehicle Sky Automotive tire
Tire Sky Wheel Vehicle Motorcycle
Cloud Sky Tire Wheel Automotive tire


My goal for this thread is to track my progress with the bike. Wish I'd done it years ago but whatever….

The biggest reason for me starting this thread now is because of some transmission issues I've been having and the fact I feel its time to really tear into this thing.
 
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#2 ·
Transmission Concern

While on my 10 day bike trip this year through the BC interior I encountered a situation where the transmission would NOT shift very well at all.

Things to note;
-Clutch cable is a +3 Galfer SS line. About 8500km on it prior to seeing issue
-Cable properly adjusted prior to leaving on trip (2 quarter thickness of slack at leaver)

When approaching a corner I tried to downshift form 4[SUP]th[/SUP] to 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and found the shift leaver would not move. After a few attempts I just booted the thing and it went into 3[SUP]rd[/SUP]. After completing the corner I went through the gears 1[SUP]st[/SUP] to 5[SUP]th[/SUP] with some difficulty but it seemed to go back to normal. Reached the end of the road where we had to wait for a Ferry. I stopped left the bike in first and shut it off. We sat for maybe 20-25min. When loading the Ferry the bike would NOT come out of 1[SUP]st[/SUP] in order for me to start in neutral. Started in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] (no biggie). Parked and sat for the 10 min Ferry ride. From here we had about a 30km ride to our hotel. During this stretch of road the bike would not shift with out considerable effort up or down. Every gear was a pain.

Made it to town safely and once parked we started to adjust the clutch cable thinking it loosened off and was out of adjustment.
After an hour of playing with it no matter how we adjusted the cable (top adjustment or lower adjustment) We could not get the bike out of 1[SUP]st[/SUP] into neutral or 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] without considerable force. Most of the time we were shifting this by hand.

In the end we adjusted the clutch to a point where I could make it work. Rode it home another 800km like this.

Things I noticed;

  • Bike would shift better when engine temps were lower. Once warmed up the bike was harder to shift.
  • Higher gears were easier to shift (3[SUP]rd[/SUP]-4[SUP]th[/SUP]-5[SUP]th[/SUP]) Still not easy but better than 1[SUP]st[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP].
  • Couldn't adjust the clutch cable enough to disengage the clutch when stopped. If I was in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] at a light or something the bike would still pull as it was fully in gear.

Over the years I have read through many of the transmission threads. My thoughts on this is that its time to get the bike tore down and do many of the clutch/transmission mods. Was thinking about checking the tub nut, completing the push pin mod, upgrading to the 2010/2011+ clutch plates and potentially dealing with what could be a bent shift fork. Also considering a Shift Star kit.

Hoping some of you can help me out with this as I document and try to fix the issues.

  • My plan is to do some re-reading of threads in the next few weeks and start tearing the bike down in early Oct.
 
#4 ·
No matter if the motor is on or off the level is very hard to move.
 
#7 ·
Hey thanks for this. Saw it a few weeks ago. Did think that I may have the same issue. Will be inspecting those parts prior to tearing open the bike.

Tube Nut loose?
If my memory is right the a loose tub nut causes a shutter when taking off. I have felt this once years ago. Either way I will be checking that its tight this winter.
 
#8 ·
As usual life got in the way and I'm about a month behind schedule on this. Was hoping to have a parts list together by now so I could start Black Friday shopping.

Got this Friday off work and will be spending the day in the garage. Hoping to get the exhaust off and inspect the shift linkage. With any luck I'll be able to pull clutch plates and see how bad things are.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Ok, got the exhaust off and did crack the clutch cover.
Didn't go much further since I ran out of time.

On initial inspection everything looks fine. A few strange scrapes on the clutch basket but without ever seeing another one, is this is normal?

Tire Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Automotive tire
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design Tread Rim


Did find a bit of discoloration on the inside of the clutch cover. Again unsure if this is normal??
- mostly the blue coloring is found in the circular area and up in the one corner.

Automotive tire Sleeve Flash photography Rim Automotive wheel system


**Did inspect the shift linkage on the left side of the bike. Couldn't see any damage or anything bent so I'm not thinking my issue is this as stated above.

Tonight my hope is to pull the bolts/springs out along with all the plates, rings and washers. Hopefully this will give me a better idea of whats happening.

Have been reading a great deal of older threads (and watching YouTube vids) to find helpful tips and some ideas of what others have done. Depending one what I find as I go in further I will at a minimum be doing the following;

1- Grind push pin- will grind 3 sides not 2 as mentioned here. I'll need to send this out to get done as I don't have a bench grinder nor am I that skilled with a grinder. Would really like this to be done right.
https://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160333&highlight=push+pin

2- Change out pressure springs- unsure if i should go with newer stock spring (from 2010+ model) or the Cycle House stiffer ones? Haven't found a lot of info on the stiffer ones and seems most just do OEM ones.

3- Clutch Plates- at a minimum I probably have to swap out a few parts due to wear based on my mileage. Part diagram numbers 6, 12 & 13. I'd really like to upgrade to the 2010+ plates. will need to do more reading up on what exactly I need to do this? Confirming part numbers will be key.
https://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297921&p=3737250&viewfull=1#post3737250

4- EVO Shift Star Kit- figured why not? I'm in here and with any luck MeanCycles will have a Black Friday sale so I can get this cheaper to negate the exchange rate problem.....
**Not a lot of info on this topic. with need to do more reading.

5- New Clutch Cover Gasket- no brainier here.

Would love to hear any feedback anyone has. There are a large number of threads on this subject but yet I still have questions.

More to come.
 
#11 ·
After inspecting it better last night the scars on the pressure plate do not seem like they should be there. Will post better pictures in a bit.
thing is none of the spring bolts were loose, there are no marks on the inside of the clutch cover to make someone think it was off-axis.

Maybe someone with experience will chime in on whether or not this is a problem?
 
#12 ·
Put the kid to bed last night and hit the garage.

Was able to get the spring bolts out and pulled the Pressure Plate and Discs.

A few better photos of the Pressure Plate. Really not sure if these marks are of any concern?

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Wheel Tire Automotive tire Tread Synthetic rubber


Pin came out no issue. A very small amount of oil on and around the pin.

Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Rim Gas
Wheel Tire Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design


Got all the plates/discs out. No issue sliding them out. Did notice these are very dry. No sign of oil inside the plates. Pin mod looks like its needed.

A few of the plates do have blue discolorations on them but nothing too crazy. As described in other threads it seems I have the marks from a slight shudder. (pics in post below) Ring marks seem to be on 2 different plates.
The other thing I noticed and am concerned about, the first 2 plates/discs were stuck to the back of the pressure plate. The 2 discs came off with the pressure plate and took some convincing to separate. Was able to peel them apart with my fingers but figured these should not be stuck together. Maybe someone can tell me if this is an issue?

Did see a bit of sludge on the last plates and in the basket. Will clean this out but did read that its very much normal. Curious what guys are using to clean this out? Is Brake Clean ok or is it best to just use a shop rag and clean what I can?
 
#13 ·
Photos of plates.

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These plates seem to have marks from the ring on them. I believe these are the ones I have to change.
- noticed they are wicked dry.

Photo of the sludge at the back of basket. Will need to wipe this out before I put it all together.

Wheel Automotive tire Motor vehicle Tire Automotive design


Tonight my plan is to go through the plates with the parts diagram beside me so I can confirm which plate is affected.
Based on what I found last night I'm going to pop the 30mm nut off to inspect the tubular nut.
 
#15 ·
From everything that I have read the lack of oil seems to be normal. The Push Pin mod should be the fix for this.
 
#19 ·
I figured those were just marks from the manufacturing process too.
The scars on the front of the pressure plate is what I'm worried about.

Appreciate you replying.
 
#17 ·
4- EVO Shift Star Kit- figured why not? I'm in here and with any luck MeanCycles will have a Black Friday sale so I can get this cheaper to negate the exchange rate problem.....
**Not a lot of info on this topic. with need to do more reading.
Shift star is on the other side of the bike (left side) toward the rear.

Something else you can check is the detent spring.
I had a 2006 M109R that was hard as to hell to shift, you had to force the shift lever back to the center position before it would change gears and even then it was not easy.
Turned out to be a $5 spring was cracked......replaced this spring and it shifted like a new bike.

Here is the link to the parts diagram
http://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/parts-accessories/gear-shifter-m109r-2006-09.html

The spring is #21 on the diagram. (Click on the small photo with gray around it in the link above and it will enlarge)

One other thing that comes to mind to check would be your motor mounts.
When they wear out your shift rod can start hitting on the bottom of the generator cover and make it very hard to shift and can also start pinching on your clutch cable if it is still run as from factory behind the motor mount.
 

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#18 ·
Something else you can check is the detent spring.
Here is the link to the parts diagram
http://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/parts-accessories/gear-shifter-m109r-2006-09.html

The spring is #21 on the diagram. (Click on the small photo with gray around it in the link above and it will enlarge)

One other thing that comes to mind to check would be your motor mounts.
Thank you for this, I'll check that spring tonight.

I have changed out the front motor mounts for the harder OEM ones years ago. After checking my maintenance log, I've put about 20,000 km on those since install. Good chance I should just change all 6 to the new poly ones but that might be a mod for next year. If I cant figure out this clutch thing I'll have to try this.
 
#22 ·
The newer friction and steel plates are thinner than the 1st generation, so both stacks end up being the same height even though the newer version has more plates.
So you want to make sure you don't mix the two together and end up with a stack that is to tall.

I have never upgraded to the newer clutch plates on any of my bikes but here is the parts list that Harris has posted on this site many times.
If you use the search feature I am sure you can find several of his post that have this list if you want to double check it against what I have here.

qty (6) Part # - 21413-35F10 SPRING,CLUTCH

qty ( 6 ) Part # - 21441-22H00 PLATE,CLUTCH DR

qty ( 5 ) Part # - 21451-22H00 PLATE,CLUTCH DR

qty ( 2 ) Part # - 21451-48G10 PLATE,CLUTCH DR

qty ( 1 ) Part # - 21441-48G40 PLATE,CLUTCH DR

qty ( 1 ) Part # - 21471-48G00 SEAT,WAVE WASHER

qty ( 1 ) Part # - 21472-48G10 WASHER,CLUTCH P
 
#23 ·
The newer friction and steel plates are thinner than the 1st generation, so both stacks end up being the same height even though the newer version has more plates.
So you want to make sure you don't mix the two together and end up with a stack that is to tall.

I have never upgraded to the newer clutch plates on any of my bikes but here is the parts list that Harris has posted on this site many times.
If you use the search feature I am sure you can find several of his post that have this list if you want to double check it against what I have here.
Thanks for this.
In my searching I don't remember seeing that. Must have missed it.

Seems I'll have to replace the entire stack to avoid issues. I'll need to price all this out. I bet the wife wont like that bill.... 8) lol!
I really want this done once and for all.
 
#29 ·
There might be someone local that can help you. Probably best if you start a new thread asking. I'm up in Canada and other than updating this thread I likely wont be much help to you.
 
#31 ·
Eagerly awaiting the Black Friday codes to start ordering parts.
Saw MeanCycles had a 5% code (TURKEY). The discount isn't huge and even after discount parts "seem" to be cheaper at www.oneidasuzuki.com

Pricing is as follows;

MC- $427.50 USD ($567.80 CAD) after discount. (REVO kit includes more plates than buying individually- NO GASKET)
**With gasket and discount $450 USD (597.69 CAD)

1S- $394.19 USD. ($523.56 CAD) Includes only parts listed above plus gasket.

Yes, its not an apples to apples comparison. Based on this the One Suzuki setup is around $73.56 USD ($97.70 CAD) cheaper but is not a complete swap. My understanding is I'd have to reuse a few items.

Part of me thinks the extra money would be well spent to have a completely new clutch (REVO Kit) that can be installed with no issue. The cheapskate part of me thinks go the One Suzuki direction....

decisions, decisions....

Due to the exchange rate and only a 5% discount at MeanCycles, I'm likely going to pass on the EVO Shift star kit. Might get this at a later date.
 
#35 ·
I've ordered from revo plenty of times
it isn't over night or 2 or 3 days
More like 6 to 8 weeks!!
I'd be ordering from MeanCycles so fingers crossed its in stock. Did send a parts request email to confirm.
 
#36 ·
And MeanCycles for the win.

After discount and shipping factored in, MeanCycles price on the Revo Clutch kit and Gasket was $9 cheaper than the smaller parts list from OneideaSuzuki. (Oneidea's shipping prices were ridiculous)

Now I'll wait for my sister to fly home on Dec 23.
 
#37 ·
Good news, my sister received a large box from MeanCycles yesterday.

Wood Building Plant Shade Hardwood


**Apologies, I cant seem to figure out why the site rotates photos?

Next week I'm going to try and tackle the "Pin Mod" so I'm ready for my parts. Thankfully I've got about a week off at Christmas so I'd like to get this all installed while I'm off.

Really hoping this is going to fix my shifting issues.....

more to come.
 
#38 ·
Happy New Year folks. Hope everyone had a great holiday break. We had a sick kid this year for Christmas so didn't get much time in the garage between that and other family.

Good news is I got my parts via my sister flying home with no tax/duty and baggage charges. And MeanCycles hooked me up with some great stickers for the beer fridge.

Still a few things to handle before I start the install.
- Push Pin Mod- need 3, 2mm wide flat spots ground in the pin.
- Want to find/rent the Honda tool to confirm the tubular nut is tight. (will add lock-tite)

Going to hit the local Honda dealer after work to buy discount tickets for the annual motorcycle show next weekend and will ask about getting the tool.
My brother works at an HVAC contractor and we are going to try and grind the pin in his shop. A bit nervous about this but should be straight forward.

Will get pics tonight. More to come....
 
#42 ·
And winter is in full swing. Extreme Cold Warning in Calgary for the last few days and coming week.

Not a lot going on in the garage until things warm up.

Atmosphere Sky World Font Astronomical object
Sky Font Line Technology Electronic device
 
#44 · (Edited)
-38C today. Sure could use a bigger garage heater....
My garage is fully insulated and dry walled so its not bad being attached to the house. The wife's car adds some heat when she parks in it for the night. My little electric Walmart heater takes the edge off.

Wont be riding for a while so I'll likely just wait it out. Should be a balmy -9C on Sunday....
 
#45 · (Edited)
Well, the temps final improved, got over the cold our family has been fitting, wife was out for the night, put the kid to bed. Now for a nice night in the garage wrenching.

  • Finally got all the tools needed to get this job done. Why is it this bike needs a new tool(s) every time I work on it……

Was able to get a few hours in to file the push pin down, pull the plates and get to the tube nut. All and all a good night.

Push Pin- Got 3 flat spots on the pin. Did this by hand with small files. My only struggle was getting accurate measurements on the caliper. OD on the pin is basically 12mm. After filing it down in one area my measurements on OD were basically unchanged. In the end I made sure the flat spot was not wider than 3mm. My measurements are as follows. 2.59mm, 2.58mm, 2.86mm. As each are under the 3mm max measurement I hope this is enough to allow more oil in? Each flat spot is very small and is barely noticeable unless in the right light.
Automotive design Automotive exterior Bumper Carbon Motor vehicle
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Pulled all the plates out. Some had some signs of heat and the final plate on the back side had the worn grove in it. Glad I'll be replacing them all.
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Was able to get the 30mm nut off with ease. The nut was badly damaged from factory and trying to pry the bent area back was interesting. I think the last 2 threads are badly damaged and am questioning if this nut is re-useable. Currently its not threading on all the way. With try and clean this up but will check if I can just by the nut.

Pulled everything out and got to the Tube nut. Get this… it was barely finger tight…. Ya.. I was VERY surprised as I hadn't experienced any shuttering. Thankful I made the choice to go all the way in.
Did notice a lot of grit and grime on the basket. Lots stuck in all the groves. The main parts will need a serious cleaning before they go back in. Was very surprised at the amount of grime.

My next steps are to finish cleaning the parts to be re-installed and modify a 2-3/8"- 4wd Lock Nut socket to allow me to tighten the Tube Nut properly. Once ready I'll soak the plates and prepare for install this coming weekend.

**Seems all my photos rotate 90 degrees to the left every time I upload. Have tried to rotate prior to upload to counter this, but no luck. Any help on this would be appreciated. What am I doing wrong?

More to come.
 
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