LED Blinker Controller for FLATZ
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Thread: LED Blinker Controller for FLATZ

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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Default LED Blinker Controller for FLATZ

    Hey folks, so I"m looking for some help from those more electronically inclined folks here on the boards. My bike had switch back White/Amber LED lights in the front lollipops that would turn the white running light off when the amber was turned on. Someone must have done some aftermarket wiring as there are 2 connectors that provide 3 wires to the front blinkers (each side). One for white, one for amber and common. I recently had one of my lollipops involuntarily removed by a slow ass turkey vulture. I decided to replace them with the Flatz turn signals by Raw designs. I special ordered the ones with both the white and amber LED's. And the work great save for one thing (I knew this going in BTW). The white doesn't turn off when the amber turns on. I'm assuming the old switchbacks on my bike had that control built into the circuit on the board itself as both the Flatz and the old lights had 3 wires coming out of them, one for White, one for Amber and common. What I'm looking for is a controller or something I can wire in before the Flatz that will turn off the white when the amber comes on. I spoke to someone who indicated it would require some relays etc... Can anyone point me to some simple inline controllers that will do this, or describe how to set up the relays if that's what will be required?

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    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    The trick to this is you need the white to be on anytime the ignition key is on.

    Then you need the white to turn off when the amber is flashing and back on when you are done with the turn signal.

    You could simply run the white running light circuit through a N/C contact of a relay and then have the flasher circuit energize the relay coil........BUT.....

    Since the flasher circuit is not constant your white light will flash on and off opposite of the amber flashing. (Maybe you would not mind this though and its just that simple)

    But if you want the white to remain off while the yellow is flashing then you will need to also have a latch and/or timer in the circuit.

    Some one somewhere has probably already built a single IC chip to do this function which would be very compact,.........trick is finding it.

    A more industrial approach would be if you could find a couple of one shot, latching, off delay relays with N/C contacts, that would work more or less to accomplish what you are trying to do.

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 08-17-2019 at 03:41 PM.

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    I don't have an answer for you but where did you get flatz that have white DRL

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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho1000R View Post
    I don't have an answer for you but where did you get flatz that have white DRL
    Special Order direct from Raw Designs
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    OK guys, I did some research and think this might work, I'll likely give it a test run in the next few days to check my idea but wanted to see if anyone had any feedback on this.

    I picked these relay's up on Amazon for $8.. They may be a bit big for what I need, and I may need to find some smaller ones/smaller Amperage... I've included a PDF of what I believe my current wiring looks like, and what I think I could do to wore these relay's in to create a circuit that turns off power to the white LED when the blinker is turned on. Thoughts?

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    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    I'm going to get some Flatz for my bike, but just the orange ones, no white.
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
    BLACK 2008 B-KING
    White 2004 Ford Lightning
    Blue/Black 2007 Ford Mustang
    Red/Black 1998 Ford Ranger


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    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    OK guys, I did some research and think this might work, I'll likely give it a test run in the next few days to check my idea but wanted to see if anyone had any feedback on this.

    I picked these relay's up on Amazon for $8.. They may be a bit big for what I need, and I may need to find some smaller ones/smaller Amperage... I've included a PDF of what I believe my current wiring looks like, and what I think I could do to wore these relay's in to create a circuit that turns off power to the white LED when the blinker is turned on. Thoughts?

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    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    This is a more accurate "BEFORE" of your wiring.
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    I will take a look at the relay circuit proposal if BCS doesn't beat me to it...
    At first glance, without confirming the wiring, I don't see anything holding the charge between signal pulses, meaning what BCS previously explained will happen - the white and amber will alternate during a signal - white-amber-white-amber instead of white...amber-off-amber-off-amber... white.

    The relay itself is of course dramatic overkill for load handling but more is better than less and automotive relays are cheap. Not sure how reliable over time those will be, but they will work at least for awhile, if wired properly. Just be aware that relay comes with 14AWG wire in the harness which isn't sufficient to handle the rated 30A load (so don't actually use it to switch 30A), but that won't apply to you and your Flatz, which probably draws... I dunno, maybe 0.6A?


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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    OK guys, I did some research and think this might work, I'll likely give it a test run in the next few days to check my idea but wanted to see if anyone had any feedback on this.

    I picked these relay's up on Amazon for $8.. They may be a bit big for what I need, and I may need to find some smaller ones/smaller Amperage... I've included a PDF of what I believe my current wiring looks like, and what I think I could do to wore these relay's in to create a circuit that turns off power to the white LED when the blinker is turned on. Thoughts?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    What you have there will work but it will alternate flashing between white and amber.

    This is a bit unorthodox as most signals turn the white completely off during the flashing of the amber signal and then turn the white back on when the signal process is done.

    But if you want to have white and amber alternately flashing you can get there a bit easier as shown in the drawing below.

    If you want to turn the white completely off during the signal process you will need the programable relays I sent you the link to which have one shot and delay timer capability.

    BCS
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    What you have there will work but it will alternate flashing between white and amber.

    This is a bit unorthodox as most signals turn the white completely off during the flashing of the amber signal and then turn the white back on when the signal process is done.

    But if you want to have white and amber alternately flashing you can get there a bit easier as shown in the drawing below.

    If you want to turn the white completely off during the signal process you will need the programable relays I sent you the link to which have one shot and delay timer capability.

    BCS
    Ok, so I may not have understood the need for the timer, but now I think I get it, I assume based on this info, that the voltage supplied to the Amber light is obviously on off (Yes I realize that should have been super obvious, but I hadn't connected that dot yet)...Though the alternating blinking white/amber might not be horrible...will have to think about it...since these relay's were only $8 I may play around with them a bit anyway and see how it looks... Thanks for connecting that last bit of info for me!
    Last edited by Mythos; 08-19-2019 at 05:55 PM.
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    How much more is the special order with white? I still feel like mine are dimmer than they should be.. Plus my blinker indicators are both dimmly lit when I put the bike on ignition. Wondering if sonething is hooked up wrong. I'll probably just take a ride to raw design when I get back. Only about a 2 hour ride from me.

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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho1000R View Post
    How much more is the special order with white? I still feel like mine are dimmer than they should be.. Plus my blinker indicators are both dimmly lit when I put the bike on ignition. Wondering if sonething is hooked up wrong. I'll probably just take a ride to raw design when I get back. Only about a 2 hour ride from me.
    Same price.
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Not sure what BCS sent you, but probably something like this (?) which would do the trick.
    What you want is a delay-off relay or programmable relay as BCS mentioned.
    (https://www.qualitymobilevideo.com/bu509td.html)

    You would connect your Flatz turn signal wire directly to the bike turn signal wire per normal. You would connect your Flatz white light wire to the normally-closed (NC) tab 87a of the relay, the "on when running / ignition power" wire from the bike to tab 30 of the relay, GROUND to tab 85, and the turn signal pulse to the "trigger" tab 86 of the relay, and set your delay - 2 sec would be plenty in this case.

    HOW IT WOULD WORK: For this relay, the white light would always be on when the bike was on, courtesy of power naturally flowing between tab 30 through to the NC tab 87a. When the turn signal activates, it would trigger the relay, killing the power to the white light (sending it to tab 87 instead... don't let that short on anything!) and allowing the turn signal to blink naturally. After 2 seconds of no turn signal pulse (pulses are about once every 0.7 seconds), the relay would relax and turn the white led back on.

    Would look like this: WHITE until turn signal activated... AMBER - OFF - AMBER - OFF ... max up to 2 second delay - WHITE comes back on.

    Good luck!
    TEST IT ON THE BENCH FIRST!


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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSetFine View Post
    Not sure what BCS sent you, but probably something like this (?) which would do the trick.
    What you want is a delay-off relay or programmable relay as BCS mentioned.
    (https://www.qualitymobilevideo.com/bu509td.html)

    You would connect your Flatz turn signal wire directly to the bike turn signal wire per normal. You would connect your Flatz white light wire to the normally-closed (NC) tab 87a of the relay, the "on when running / ignition power" wire from the bike to tab 30 of the relay, GROUND to tab 85, and the turn signal pulse to the "trigger" tab 86 of the relay, and set your delay - 2 sec would be plenty in this case.

    HOW IT WOULD WORK: For this relay, the white light would always be on when the bike was on, courtesy of power naturally flowing between tab 30 through to the NC tab 87a. When the turn signal activates, it would trigger the relay, killing the power to the white light (sending it to tab 87 instead... don't let that short on anything!) and allowing the turn signal to blink naturally. After 2 seconds of no turn signal pulse (pulses are about once every 0.7 seconds), the relay would relax and turn the white led back on.

    Would look like this: WHITE until turn signal activated... AMBER - OFF - AMBER - OFF ... max up to 2 second delay - WHITE comes back on.

    Good luck!
    TEST IT ON THE BENCH FIRST!

    Excellecnt stuff, very similar to what Charles sent too...will definately be looking into this...though I'd likely set the delay for more like 15 seconds...thanks!
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    So I was thinking about this..because I'm cheap...lol I could just use one. I then realized that if you just use one, both white lights would go out when either blinker is on...then I thought...that may not actually be a bad thing...what do you all think?
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    Excellecnt stuff, very similar to what Charles sent too...will definately be looking into this...though I'd likely set the delay for more like 15 seconds...thanks!
    The ones NSF linked you to have a mechanical latch instead of a logical latch.

    I cant tell from the data sheet if the mechanical latch will reset from pulse to pulse without having to first expire before re-latching but more than likely they will.

    These may also fit directly into the relay base/harness that you have now from the standard relays you posted earlier.

    The ones I sent to you the link for are programmable logic relays which can be programmed for one shot and delay timer. These did specify that the delay timer resets upon the next incoming input pulse.

    I put the link to these below so NSF could check them out.

    Either relay should work just fine to accomplish what you are trying to do.

    I am curious though why you would set the timer to 15 seconds instead of 2 seconds? Only difference would be with the timer set at 15 seconds, 14.3 seconds would elapse before your white light would turn back on once the turn signal is finished instead of 1.3 seconds if you have the timer set at 2 seconds.......its all good though it would work either way.

    Here is the programmable relay.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015Z2EQCU...YxROVnZLSortI8

    And here is the optional configuration board for the relay.

    https://www.amazon.com/Configuration...tgLLf4tGnz17zs

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 08-21-2019 at 08:32 PM.

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    So I was thinking about this..because I'm cheap...lol I could just use one. I then realized that if you just use one, both white lights would go out when either blinker is on...then I thought...that may not actually be a bad thing...what do you all think?
    You would have to add diodes from each turn signal input to the relay coil to keep from back feeding the turn signal that is not supposed to be on.

    Without this and using one relay for both you would end up with no running lights on and both turn signals blinking. (Hazard lights)

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 08-21-2019 at 09:21 PM.

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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    You would have to add diodes from each turn signal input to the relay coil to keep from back feeding the turn signal that is not supposed to be on.

    Without this and using one relay for both you would end up with no running lights on and both turn signals blinking. (Hazard lights)

    BCS
    This is why I run these dumb ideas by ya'll...lol
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    https://photos.app.goo.gl/tguTtj6gCDojXJdk6

    Thanks to BCS for the heads up on the mini timed relays. With a bit of effort I was able to program them and get them wired into the bike, now I may be the only person in the world with FLATZ with white running lights that turn off when the blinker comes on...YAY!!!!!
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member NJDEVIL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/tguTtj6gCDojXJdk6

    Thanks to BCS for the heads up on the mini timed relays. With a bit of effort I was able to program them and get them wired into the bike, now I may be the only person in the world with FLATZ with white running lights that turn off when the blinker comes on...YAY!!!!!
    I didn't even know that was an option on the flatz I saw your video of them, that looks great

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    Default Shout Out!

    I just want to take this moment to give a loud shout out to BCS, NoSetFine and many more on this forum that spend their valuable time guiding those of us in need of help. I for one do not take this for granted. Just ask yourself, where in this world do you get free service. Not to many places.

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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBarros View Post
    I just want to take this moment to give a loud shout out to BCS, NoSetFine and many more on this forum that spend their valuable time guiding those of us in need of help. I for one do not take this for granted. Just ask yourself, where in this world do you get free service. Not to many places.

    Very true, this is all in all a great community and there are definitely some stand out folks who have a wealth of knowledge and will readily share it!
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member Mythos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJDEVIL View Post
    I didn't even know that was an option on the flatz I saw your video of them, that looks great
    Technically they aren't exactly an option. I had found a video of them doing some beta testing on Flatz with white running lights from like 5 years ago or so. I reached out and asked about them and they said they had not put them into production because they couldn't find an LED controller that would turn off the white that was cheap enough to make it cost effective to sell them (of course this was ~5 years ago). I asked if I could buy them that way anyway and they said sure, just indicate that in my order (I purchased direct from RAW designs). Price was the same too! The white definitely overpowered the amber, so you really couldn't see when I had my turn signals on from the front. I was toying with the idea of a relay but it would have effectively turned the white on and off between the amber (which is how it was in RAW design's video). That's when BCS found and suggested the Mini Timed relays....sure enough they work great!
    Michael - 2012 M109r LE - East Orlando, FL



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    Very Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    The first set of flats I got were some of the first switchbacks Raw released. I had the exact problem you described. The white over powered the amber and there was no way to turn the white off and allow the amber to flash (at that time). I sent them back and exchanged them for the amber only.

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    Still waiting on an email back from Raw but expect me to email you for what I would need from amazon once they are ordered. I have a few things in my cart already.

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    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Just reading this over again - you could hook up that relay as in your first idea, where it would alternate white/amber, but include a diode and capacitor across the coil so it will stay engaged for a short time between pulses. I did the same thing for my mirrors, but they were only LED's not a relay coil which may require a larger capacitor.

    The way it would work, is the capacitor would charge up on the turn signal pulse which also triggers the relay.

    When the pulse dies between blinks, the capacitor would discharge into coil and keep it open until the next blink pulse.
    If no more blink pulses... then the cap runs out and the coil would close, reverting to white.

    You would need to experiment with capacitor sizes to get the right timing, I honestly forget what I finally went with on mine and it is likely different anyway, as it will depend on the discharge rate across the coil.


    EDIT: Didn't read far enough down... looks like you got it solved. Saw the video - looks GREAT!!


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    Very Active Member NJDEVIL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    Technically they aren't exactly an option. I had found a video of them doing some beta testing on Flatz with white running lights from like 5 years ago or so. I reached out and asked about them and they said they had not put them into production because they couldn't find an LED controller that would turn off the white that was cheap enough to make it cost effective to sell them (of course this was ~5 years ago). I asked if I could buy them that way anyway and they said sure, just indicate that in my order (I purchased direct from RAW designs). Price was the same too! The white definitely overpowered the amber, so you really couldn't see when I had my turn signals on from the front. I was toying with the idea of a relay but it would have effectively turned the white on and off between the amber (which is how it was in RAW design's video). That's when BCS found and suggested the Mini Timed relays....sure enough they work great!
    Thank’s For the info 👍🏾

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    Should be taking on this project next week. Didn't realize what was needed to setup the timers and had to order them (my bad). All the notes here and the notes that have been provided via Facebook should be enough to get it done. Pics and videos to come. (Might have to get someone a beer or few for helping out)

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    Active Member geosidey's Avatar
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    A bit more expensive but you could use a couple of these.
    https://youtu.be/yhWzULqf2gs

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