FULL OR PARTIAL ECU FLASH...WHICH ONE IS TRULY BEST?

[JUDAH-9]

For those of you who had the Partial ECU FLASH in conjunction with a fuel tuner, but you switched to a FULL ECU FLASH...what did you notice about your 9 that made you feel your 9 performed better after switching to the FULL ECU FLASH?

[FlyingCircus]

had a PCV with spiked intakes and Scorpion tips. Went to Vance and Hines Big shots and then Thunder Tornadoes. Bought an Xtre and never installed as BCS started doing the ECU flash so I got that done and sold the Xtre. Took off the PCV and sold that. I noticed much better performance right away. My opinion is your not adding things to go wrong. With fuel controllers, Tre you're adding more connections that could create issues. With ECU no extra wiring and connections that could possibly go wrong. No need for spending hundreds to have your fuel controller setup by being dynoed and trust that it has actually been done right

[JUDAH-9]

That was very-well stated FC. Thank you for enlightening me, as I’m strongly considering removing and selling the Cobra Power Pro Tuners from both of my 9s and having the FULL ECU FLASH performed.

Thanks again Bro,
Bobby

[Andy33]

Great topic. I too am toying with the idea of switching my setup to a flashed ECU.
Maybe this winter.

[Bering_C_Sparky]

I waited a bit to see who would respond with what answers before chiming in.

Here is how I see it....

If you partially tune the ECU it will be as follows

Ignition Timing maps will be tuned.
STP Maps will be tuned
Factory restrictions lifted
RPM limiter raised
Cooling fan temp lowered.

But the fuel maps are generally not touched when you receive what is known as a "Partial ECU Tune" ........that may not always be the case depending on who is doing the tune because "Partial" simply means that "Something" was left out or not done.......but from all I have seen its the fuel maps that stay stock.

Now you have to ask yourself........If my fuel maps are stock but my timing has been advanced and my STP maps have been manipulated......what am I going to use to make up the extra fuel now needed?

An Auto Tuner? .......sounds feasible......BUT.......do you or I (or anybody for that matter) really know how the Auto Tuner such as the FI2000 works?
Is it auto tuning all the time? (IDK do you?)
Or is it only auto tuning on acceleration? (This I can say yes, it does tune on acceleration and tunes very rich at that).......And if this is the case what is going on when you are cruising at a steady pace going down the hwy? .......is the auto tuner keeping the AFR where it needs to be? .......Honestly I do not know......Do you?

How about if you are using a power commander with static maps instead of an auto tuner?
Do you just download the map off the internet, write it to the power commander and now you are good to go?............The answer is NO, that will not work since your Timing Maps have been Advanced you will need more fuel than the map off the internet provides since it was built using stock timing maps.

So your only option is to take your bike to a shop with a dyno and have them build your power commander map for you and hope that they take the time to do a good job and actually tune the entire map and not just the WOT portion like most do. Not to mention you payed for a ECU tune and now you are going to pay for a power commander and pay to have a different shop spend all day tuning your power commander.......That is going to cost some $$$.

You may have a 3rd scenario to work into the mix with your bikes Bobby........You had Matt do the build on your bikes, did he do cam's?......... If so that is a factor that disqualifies you from buying any through the mail tunes and you will need a custom tune worked up specifically for your bike.
Same would apply if you had any other engine work done, or have added NOS (which I think you did) which would change how your timing or fuel needed to be set up in the ECU.
If this is the case you will want to consult with Matt about the best way to tune your bike before you try something on your own, because you will likely need to have a custom one off tune build specifically for your bike.

Hopefully this will give you something to chew on a bit and give some thought too, even if it did not specifically answer your original question.

[Kratos109]

Think of it this way, when you flash the ECU with fuel values, those are values it uses. When you have an auto-tuning type fuel tuner installed, it has to interpret how the bike is running with the ECU fuel values, figure out the proper amount of fuel (according to what it thinks is correct) based on its own programming and sensors, then send the new values.

Even though the PowrPro samples at 80 times per second, there are dyno sheets on here that show that the PowrPro is not very good at maintaining a nice smooth afr during a pull, not to mention it doesn't tune while at steady state cruise, only during acceleration.


Also, the cruise setting on the powrpro is a one setting fits all type of setting. If you set it so that you don't get lean surging while cruising at 75 mph, that same setting would be used when you are cruising at 60 mph, which may or may not be correct at that rpm/throttle position.

Now, in the end, would you be able to notice this in any way shape or form? If you are an experienced tuner, probably. On a dyno with a printout of your afr, probably. If you encounter lean surging, definitely. If you're just out riding, maybe not.

Like said above, if you already have a partial flash and all of the benefits of removed restrictions and maybe advanced timing, then you would be just removing a point of failure if you went with the full flash and removed the powrpro.

If you do not have a flash, I would go for the full flash and not even consider an add-on tuner (provided a flash is available for your particular mods).

I have removed all the power commanders from the bikes my girlfriend and I have and have had the ECU's flashed. I am running BCS's flash on my 9 and couldn't be happier.


Ha, BCS responded while i was typing.....

[Syler]

I waited a bit to see who would respond with what answers before chiming in.

Here is how I see it....

If you partially tune the ECU it will be as follows

Ignition Timing maps will be tuned.
STP Maps will be tuned
Factory restrictions lifted
RPM limiter raised
Cooling fan temp lowered.

But the fuel maps are generally not touched when you receive what is known as a "Partial ECU Tune" ........that may not always be the case depending on who is doing the tune because "Partial" simply means that "Something" was left out or not done.......but from all I have seen its the fuel maps that stay stock.

Now you have to ask yourself........If my fuel maps are stock but my timing has been advanced and my STP maps have been manipulated......what am I going to use to make up the extra fuel now needed?

An Auto Tuner? .......sounds feasible......BUT.......do you or I (or anybody for that matter) really know how the Auto Tuner such as the FI2000 works?
Is it auto tuning all the time? (IDK do you?)
Or is it only auto tuning on acceleration? (This I can say yes, it does tune on acceleration and tunes very rich at that).......And if this is the case what is going on when you are cruising at a steady pace going down the hwy? .......is the auto tuner keeping the AFR where it needs to be? .......Honestly I do not know......Do you?

How about if you are using a power commander with static maps instead of an auto tuner?
Do you just download the map off the internet, write it to the power commander and now you are good to go?............The answer is NO, that will not work since your Timing Maps have been Advanced you will need more fuel than the map off the internet provides since it was built using stock timing maps.

So your only option is to take your bike to a shop with a dyno and have them build your power commander map for you and hope that they take the time to do a good job and actually tune the entire map and not just the WOT portion like most do. Not to mention you payed for a ECU tune and now you are going to pay for a power commander and pay to have a different shop spend all day tuning your power commander.......That is going to cost some $$$.

You may have a 3rd scenario to work into the mix with your bikes Bobby........You had Matt do the build on your bikes, did he do cam's?......... If so that is a factor that disqualifies you from buying any through the mail tunes and you will need a custom tune worked up specifically for your bike.
Same would apply if you had any other engine work done, or have added NOS (which I think you did) which would change how your timing or fuel needed to be set up in the ECU.
If this is the case you will want to consult with Matt about the best way to tune your bike before you try something on your own, because you will likely need to have a custom one off tune build specifically for your bike.

Hopefully this will give you something to chew on a bit and give some thought too, even if it did not specifically answer your original question.

Are you talking about Matt Guthrie who supposedly has performance cams? If so, how do I get ahold of him?

[Bigpapa]

I clearly don’t know all of the technical aspects that BCS does, but here’s my experience. I had a PC that I paid to have tuned on the dyno with a partial ECU flash ( not cheap) . I wasn’t satisfied, just didn’t feel right. I pulled the PC and sent my Ecu to BCS For a full flash. Bike runs better than ever. I also like the idea of less items on the bike.

[JUDAH-9]

Thanks for the response BP. I’ve totally made up my mind to have all three of my ECUs flashed by BCS. I hope to have at least two of them done very soon. I wish I had done this long before now.

[Muscle109R]

Waiting for updated mapping for 2020 9 w/ HK VPR 2 into 1 now...just waiting for BCS to press go!! Can’t wait to unleash the beast. If anyone is interested in PC5 brand new never used let me know!

[JUDAH-9]

Waiting for updated mapping for 2020 9 w/ HK VPR 2 into 1 now...just waiting for BCS to press go!! Can’t wait to unleash the beast. If anyone is interested in PC5 brand new never used let me know!

Me too Bro. I’m patiently waiting for him to complete his newest mapping. I think it’s going to be next level crazy-bad, once he has it all dialed in. I too have the HK VPR SHORT exhaust on my 08’ and 14’ model 9s, and the HK SHORTY SIDEBURNER on my 07’ model. I can’t wait to see how BCS’s new ECU FLASH is going to affect/transform each of them, with regard to increased performance and overall smoothness throughout the gears.