Throttle stutter/hesitation
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Thread: Throttle stutter/hesitation

  1. #1
    Member WAM109RBOSS16's Avatar
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    Default Throttle stutter/hesitation

    I was riding home from work today, on the freeway, and tried to throttle up to gain some speed and the engine stuttered and had no get up and go. I tried shifting down into 4th, and I got the same thing. I pulled over, and dropped it into neutral and noticed it wouldn't go above 3 or 4k RPM when I revved it in place. Thankfully, I was close to home, and after restarting it a few times it started to act well enough to get me back.

    I'm assuming it was going into a limp mode, but I'm not sure why. The only thing I have done is K&N intake filters and a de-baffled stock exhaust. It has run just fine under those conditions for at least 3 thousand miles. I'm just up over 6 thousand miles, and I'm due for the 6k service, but other than that, nothing has changed.

    I did see under the F.A.Qs. that it could be my S.E.T. valve, but I'm not sure where that's at. If someone does suspect that is the issue, can you point me to the pages in the owner's and/or service manual I'd reference for that? My bike is still under factory warranty, too, if that's something that would be covered.

    Also, I've been sitting on a Healtech X-TRE for some time, would it help at all if I installed it? I need to do it, anyway, and what better reason than to fix an issue?

    Please let me know if I can provide any more info, too. Thank in advance!

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    Very Active Member FlyingCircus's Avatar
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    the X-TRE wouldn't do anything for your symptoms. Bad fuel? Did you have it sitting all winter? Did your FI light come on?

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    Member WAM109RBOSS16's Avatar
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    No, no lights at all. Bad fuel is a possibility, I suppose, but I usually only fuel up at Shell or Costco (Top Tier only for the bike).

    It didn't sit all winter, either. The longest it has sat has been maybe a month since I bought it. I'm a fair weather rider, but I can handle a bit of cold, so I ride as often as dry and safe conditions permit.

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    Very Active Member FlyingCircus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAM109RBOSS16 View Post
    No, no lights at all. Bad fuel is a possibility, I suppose, but I usually only fuel up at Shell or Costco (Top Tier only for the bike).

    It didn't sit all winter, either. The longest it has sat has been maybe a month since I bought it. I'm a fair weather rider, but I can handle a bit of cold, so I ride as often as dry and safe conditions permit.
    Did you check a spark plug to see what it looks like?

    For me I'd never use Costco. May be different in the USA but in Canada it's cheap fuel.

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    Member WAM109RBOSS16's Avatar
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    I haven't pulled or checked anything yet. Got parked and came up to the computer to start my research and hopefully get pointed in the right direction.

    Costco gas is good here. It's Top Tier, which is good fuel (https://www.toptiergas.com/).

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    Very Active Member FlyingCircus's Avatar
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    I'd pull a plug on the outside as it's easier to get at and see how it looks. Are they original plugs?

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    Very Active Member FlyingCircus's Avatar
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    Personally I'd wonder about that website and how it is funded and by whom. I would never put Costco fuel in any of my vehicles. They also show Co-op in Canada and I won't run that in my bike, Shell or Esso for me

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    Very Active Member Sasnuke's Avatar
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    ^^^ Agreed with FC...No Costco for me either. I live and die by Shell...in my cars and bike. With the exception if I absolutely need fuel (like I will run out before I reach a Shell), or I happen upon a Petro Canada that has the 94 octane...oh baby!

    From the sounds of it the bike seems pretty brand new...if it's still under warranty let the dealer worry about it.
    Don't get me wrong, it's nice to now and fix the problem yourself, but if it's still under warranty, better to let the dealer do the tinkering around rather than you, and then they say something about you being in there as it relates to claiming warranty.

    If it won't rev up and no FI light...sounds like bad fuel or it's starving for fuel.
    2008 M109R2 Black - Flat black rims, Smoked turn signals, K&N Replacement filters, 2006 Exhaust Debaffled, & HealTech GiPro A-TRE G2.

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    Member WAM109RBOSS16's Avatar
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    I noticed mileage improvements when I switched over from Fred Meyer to Costco gas. Top Tier gas is very similar between brands. I've run through numerous tanks of Costco gas in all 4 of my vehicles without issue. Same with Shell, for that matter.

    Some info I found on it - https://wallethacks.com/best-gas-cos...chevron-mobil/

    I digress, though. I'll pull the plugs sometime this weekend, possibly, to check, or I'll just limp it to my dealer and let them go over it for me since it's under warranty still. I need to get it in for its service, anyhow.

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Page 5-21 of the service manual goes over the Fail Safe Mode on the M109R.

    You can also add the clutch switch to this list as I have seen this cause the bike to enter fail safe mode (limp mode) and not give a FI light when it was a problem also.

    Take a quick look at your clutch switch near the clutch lever and see if it is functioning correctly.

    BCS

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    Very Active Member NoSetFine's Avatar
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    Somewhat anecdotal, and I did get an FI light after what I can only think was bad gas in a brand new bike but with otherwise virtually identical symptoms (mine is even the same colour as yours, which might be part of it? ).

    I was riding out through rural northern Quebec and grabbed gas, within a few moments I got an FI light, chugging, sputtering, no power, no revs, pulled over with a feeling of dread as I was basically in the middle of nowhere. Shut it off, rested and started it a few times, light eventually went out and I have never had the problem again.

    May have nothing to do with your situation but thought I'd share given the similarity.


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    Very Active Member Canadian's Avatar
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    Sounds like what happened to mine when the fuel filter had had enough. Just in case, throwing it out there.

    https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sh...anadian+filter
    2010 M109R LE - Hard Krome American Classics, gel seats, debeavered, cobra case guards, cobra std sissy bar, kaoko cruise control, Fi2000r, spike intakes, X-TRE, 250 rear


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    Very Active Member Stavros's Avatar
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    All the same symptoms ....his mileage is low but something to check..
    Stav

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingCircus View Post
    the X-TRE wouldn't do anything for your symptoms. Bad fuel? Did you have it sitting all winter? Did your FI light come on?
    This bike looks really great. You can check the reviews of these types of bike on https://trendinwealth.com.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    Symptoms sound a lot like clogged fuel filter. I've had to replace mine twice in 13 years.

    But another time, I was having similar problems. Thought it couldn't be the filter because it hadn't been enough time. Ended up being the fuel cap. It's a vented cap, and inside there is a little plate that I think acts as a one-way valve, allows air in but not fuel out. Somehow, it had gotten out of position in the cap, and the cap wasn't venting anymore. As the fuel level goes down, air has to replace it. If the cap won't let air in, the bike, or car, starts running poorly. Kicker for me was when I pulled over, took cap off. Put it back on, and it ran great again. Headed for home, had to do that a second time. I figured what the heck, and took the fuel cap apart. Found the little plate not sitting in the cap as it's supposed to. I suppose I'll never understand how it got out of position. Maybe I dropped it and it happened then? Hasn't happened again since.

    There is a thread here that used to have pictures of the fuel cap taken apart. The pics aren't there anymore. Found it and looked, no pics.
    Last edited by cbxer55; 08-12-2019 at 08:19 PM.
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    Very Active Member Fishman349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingCircus View Post
    Personally I'd wonder about that website and how it is funded and by whom. I would never put Costco fuel in any of my vehicles. They also show Co-op in Canada and I won't run that in my bike, Shell or Esso for me
    Esso now has Ethanol in their fuel now and I avoid it at all costs. I would never store my 9 over the winter with Ethanol blended fuel of any kind. Co-Op's and Shell premium fuel has no Ethanol and for that reason it is a go to for me.
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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    I'm fortunate that the only station that sells 93 octane in my neck of the woods is three and a half miles from home. And yeah, no alcohol. All the other stations, mostly have signs out front that say 100% gas, no alcohol. The stations that do have ethanol fuel, also have fuel without it. So it's your choice.

    I actually run a pretty heavy ethanol blend in my 98 V-6 Ranger. It runs frikkin awesome with 25% ethanol. I normally run it around 15%, but decided this weekend to up it and see what happens. Runs frikking awesome, loving it. And it's never given me a single problem, any time of the year. I start with a base of 91 octane, and every gallon of E85 is 5%. Two gallons is 10%. Three gallons is 15%. etc. It's just the result of the amount of fuel the tank holds and the alcohol/fuel ration of E85 that makes the math so easy.
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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman349 View Post
    Esso now has Ethanol in their fuel now and I avoid it at all costs. I would never store my 9 over the winter with Ethanol blended fuel of any kind. Co-Op's and Shell premium fuel has no Ethanol and for that reason it is a go to for me.
    I guess it depends on what region you live it.
    The shell in my town had 93 octane premium but it does have a <10% ethanol content. (or at least that is how its labeled on the pump)
    I run this shell 93 octane in my bike all the time now so I keep the fuel consistent when building tunes.
    I really wish I could get 91 Octane to build the tunes with just to have a little wiggle room and because 91 is the highest available in some regions of the USA, but no one offers 91 octane near me.
    Fuel available is
    87 regular
    89 mid grade
    93 premium
    All have <10% ethanol content.
    I am sure I could drive 30 minutes and find 91 octane but I burn though a lot of fuel so its just not feasible to go that far out and to get it.

    There is one Whetsone Oil gas station in my town that does offer 89 octane non-ethanol labeled for marine use and that same station has 1 pump off to the side that is 110 octane labeled as racing fuel (but they will not let you pump it directly into your vehicle, only into fuel cans).
    I used to run the 89 non ethanol in my bike when it was stock. But once I started running advanced timing maps I only use 93 octane or better always.

    BCS

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    Those who say their premium has ethanol in it, have you ever inquired inside. Here in Oklahoma, the only grade with ethanol is 87 octane. All others are pure gas. I find it hard to believe that gas refineries do this and somehow Oklahoma gets different gas than all the other states. One big name station here, they have different color handles so you know what you're buying. Red handle, ethanol 87. Black handle, non ethanol 87, 89 and 91. Yellow handle, E85.

    The station I buy my 93 from gets it delivered from Shell in Arkansas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAM109RBOSS16 View Post
    No, no lights at all. Bad fuel is a possibility, I suppose, but I usually only fuel up at Shell or Costco (Top Tier only for the bike).

    It didn't sit all winter, either. The longest it has sat has been maybe a month since I bought it. I'm a fair weather rider, but I can handle a bit of cold, so I ride as often as dry and safe conditions permit.
    I had very similar symptoms once and it was water in the tank. Ethanol loves to soak up moisture out of the air. Pulled tank and emptied it. Instant fix. Water is heavier and sinks to the bottom of the tank. Pretty sure my came from a gas station too. I try to run ethanol free when I can find it.

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    Those who say their premium has ethanol in it, have you ever inquired inside. Here in Oklahoma, the only grade with ethanol is 87 octane. All others are pure gas. I find it hard to believe that gas refineries do this and somehow Oklahoma gets different gas than all the other states. One big name station here, they have different color handles so you know what you're buying. Red handle, ethanol 87. Black handle, non ethanol 87, 89 and 91. Yellow handle, E85.

    The station I buy my 93 from gets it delivered from Shell in Arkansas.
    Florida Law (and I am sure the law in every other state also) requires the octane & ethanol content of the fuel be clearly labeled on each pump.
    All pumps at most stations (at least in my area) are labeled "Contains less than 10% ethanol" on every grade of gasoline.
    When you can find a station that has ethanol free fuel it is clearly labeled on that pump "Non Ethanol" (and in my town every pump labeled non-ethanol also says "For Marine Use")
    The gas stations do not get to pick and choose how they label the pump to show what fuel is in the tank.....its the Law that it must be labeled correctly so the consumer knows what they are purchasing.
    In Florida this is highly regulated and often tested to be sure what is labeled on the pump is what is actually in the tank.
    Station owner face stiff fines if the label on the pump does not match what is in the tank.

    Minimum octane ratings and ethanol content for each grade of gasoline varies from state to state, the law is mandated by each state and is not one set federal regulation.
    Some states require higher minimum octane ratings than others and some require ethanol to be added to one or more (or all) grades of gasoline.
    Its pretty easy to find this information with a quick google search.

    There is even a state by state directory that will show you where you can get pure E0 gasoline by state, city and station.

    On this site you will see in Crystal River Florida they show 5 stations that sell pure gasoline.
    One is the Whetstone station I mentioned earlier
    Three are boat marinas
    and one is a Citco station that closed about 2 years ago.
    None of these stations sell pure premium (non ethanol) gasoline, only low and mid grade 87 or 89 octane.

    99% of all gasoline sold in my area has ethanol in it and all premium gasoline in my area contains ethanol.

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 08-14-2019 at 10:20 PM.

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    And here is why 99% of all gasoline in Florida contains ethanol while the same is not true for Oklahoma.

    Florida offers tax exemptions for biofuel distribution equipment and this tax exemption goes to the businesses that produce, store or distributive gasoline containing ethanol. (Not to the end consumer)
    So the fact that ethanol is blended with the fuel means tax savings for the business where as pure gasoline renders no such tax intensive to the business.
    At one point Florida actually mandated that all gasoline contain ethanol, but this was later repealed when consumers complained that it was not good for small engines and marine use.
    But since the tax exemptions are still in place, it is financially beneficial for every business that deals in gasoline to sell ethanol blended fuels instead of pure gasoline.

    (There are still a hand full of states in the USA that mandate ethanol be blended into every grade of gasoline)

    Oklahoma also offers tax incentives for ethanol gasoline.....but they require that the price of the fuel be lowered at the pump the same amount as the tax incentive the business receives, so that the benefit goes to the end consumer and not to the business entity.
    Since the business owner does not profit directly it has no incentive to supply ethanol blended fuel over pure gasoline.
    This is why pure gasoline is more readily available and easier to find in your state.


    To find the answer to most questions in life......just follow the money.

    FLORIDA
    http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/...ending-mandate

    Oklahoma
    https://iec.ok.gov/sites/g/files/gmc...elRetailer.pdf
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 08-14-2019 at 10:21 PM.

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