Curious
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  1. #1
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    Has anyone done a tune on a stock "9" with only K&N's? Can we still get comparable performance to an aftermarket exhaust and K&N setup? I'm thinking of going back to stock pipes. I haven't decided if I want a flash or autotuner, so I'm stuck "thinking about it" and riding with crappy performance in the meantime.
    Last edited by BOSS_man; 01-15-2019 at 12:04 PM.

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    If you add a Auto Tuner it will make up the fuel on acceleration, but you would also need to add a timing module or TRE to fix the retarded timing issues in 1 -3 gears.

    I have made up a ECU tune for the stock exhaust.

    It basically sets the ignition timing to the same as a TRE would. (4th gear maps across the board)

    Tunes the Secondary Throttle Plate maps to get around the top end limiter and ease the hard decel of the 9.

    I bumped the fuel a bit. (Don't want to go crazy on adding fuel through the Catalytic Converter)

    Raised the RPM limiter to 7500 so it matches the tach and lowered the cooling fan cut in and cut out.

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 01-15-2019 at 12:44 PM.

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    Why are you thinking of going back to the stock exhaust?

    What exhaust are you running now?

    BCS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    Why are you thinking of going back to the stock exhaust?

    What exhaust are you running now?

    BCS
    I don't want to go stock, but my wife says it's too loud. She'll get over it, but I was just wondering if tuning with stock pipes would do anything for performance. I'm running the VPR (full length) with K & N's, TRE and physically removed STP's (putting them back in tomorrow) all factory settings, it's noticeably running like crap. Not my bike, but this is the one.

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    Last edited by BOSS_man; 01-15-2019 at 02:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS_man View Post
    I don't want to go stock, but my wife says it's too loud. She'll get over it, but I was just wondering if tuning with stock pipes would do anything for performance. I'm running the VPR (full length) with K & N's, TRE and physically removed STP's (putting them back in tomorrow) all factory settings, it's noticeably running like crap. Not my bike, but this is the one.

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    Put your stock exhaust in the driveway and back over it with your truck so that it is no longer an option to put it back on.

    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 01-15-2019 at 08:33 PM.

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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    Put your stock exhaust in the driveway and back over it with your truck so that is no longer an option to put it back on.

    BCS
    ROFLMAO!!!!

    Lose it in a boating accident! It accidently got thrown overboard honey!
    SILVER 2006 M109R.
    BLACK 2008 B-KING


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    Very Active Member Fishman349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    ROFLMAO!!!!

    Lose it in a boating accident! It accidently got thrown overboard honey!
    Sell it on here and take your wife out for a nice romantic dinner and explain where the money came from while there.
    H.C. Velocity Pro, Cobra Power Pro Black, Cobra Engine Guards, ISO Blk Grips, National Cycle VStream Tour, Kuryakyn Switchblade Pegs, G/M TRE, .....

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    Hang it on the southeast side of the house and run a cable to her TV..she’ll get the romance movie station,should get her off your back for a couple months,till you come up with another plan
    Stav

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    The Freedom Combat is a good exhaust.

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    Very Active Member VzrDean1800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS_man View Post
    Has anyone done a tune on a stock "9" with only K&N's? Can we still get comparable performance to an aftermarket exhaust and K&N setup? I'm thinking of going back to stock pipes. I haven't decided if I want a flash or autotuner, so I'm stuck "thinking about it" and riding with crappy performance in the meantime.
    Anyone know the actual HP increase, from stock to most aftermarket exhaust with same K&N filters? would it be 10?

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VzrDean1800 View Post
    Anyone know the actual HP increase, from stock to most aftermarket exhaust with same K&N filters? would it be 10?
    +10 hp is certainly doable if its also tuned correctly.

    BCS

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    yes 10 apparently
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankj View Post
    yes 10 apparently
    LOL.....I think Ivan's Dyno is a bit on the happy side.

    A stock M109R is not going to make 114 hp........104 maybe.......getting to 114 after tuning would be your 10 hp gain.

    I am very confident in saying that graph is exaggerated.

    I have opened and looked inside of Ivans M109R tune myself.

    BCS

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    Very Active Member VzrDean1800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankj View Post
    yes 10 apparently
    On Ivans graph, I'm wondering how the graph would differ comparing a "stock 109", to a stock exhaust 109 with a properly tuned ECU with a freer flowing intake. I understand the "weakest link" idea, but how weak is that link (stock exhaust). Similar to the OP, I'm just curious and it's interesting discussion. Like my v45 of years gone by. The 9 has a unique sound stock. Very recognisable, imho. If I could shorten them a few inches without changing the sound, that I'd do!
    Dean
    Last edited by VzrDean1800; 01-16-2019 at 11:03 AM.

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    his other dyno printouts are here dean http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/m109r.htm
    the stock downpipes are 40mm, and the silencer exit hole is 32mm, so a bottleneck/restriction of 2/3rds in terms of sq mm
    and dyno printouts are rarely accurate in peak hp, but can be very useful when comparing setups (back-to-back)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS_man View Post
    I don't want to go stock, but my wife says it's too loud. She'll get over it, but I was just wondering if tuning with stock pipes would do anything for performance. I'm running the VPR (full length) with K & N's, TRE and physically removed STP's (putting them back in tomorrow) all factory settings, it's noticeably running like crap. Not my bike, but this is the one.

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    This is the exact exhaust i'm wanting to buy, but need to buy another 9 to put it on first though

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankj View Post
    his other dyno printouts are here dean http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/m109r.htm
    the stock downpipes are 40mm, and the silencer exit hole is 32mm, so a bottleneck/restriction of 2/3rds in terms of sq mm
    and dyno printouts are rarely accurate in peak hp, but can be very useful when comparing setups (back-to-back)
    This absolutely answers my question, thanks.

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    I'm running stock exhaust still and loving the performance. I Drilled out both baffles in each pipe, Drilled 8 1/4" holes in each end cap, and disabled the butterfly valve in the exhaust, It sounds and preforms much better.
    I'd say you need an auto tuner AND a flash. Unless you get a custom tune done with the flash. On my bike, I have an autotuner, A flash from Scorp, and the xXx Big air kit and the bike is so much faster then stock. I can wheelie 1st gear no problem now. Best time at the track was 12.1 at 109mph, I'm sure it would have gotten into the 11's on a cooler night and with more practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering_C_Sparky View Post
    LOL.....I think Ivan's Dyno is a bit on the happy side.

    A stock M109R is not going to make 114 hp........104 maybe.......getting to 114 after tuning would be your 10 hp gain.

    I am very confident in saying that graph is exaggerated.

    I have opened and looked inside of Ivans M109R tune myself.

    BCS


    This is impossible as the 109r's ecu cannot be read from the connector... You would have to cut it open and read it directly from the board...

    For protection, I close the board connections in my flash so people cannot read it....
    It can be written over, but cannot be read after cutting it open (if you even knew where to cut it.)

    BTW my old dyno reads the same as my brand new one.

    If you want to grow your business don't do it by making up lies... earn it on your own merit.
    Last edited by Ivan_ipp; 03-31-2019 at 06:17 AM.

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    "911 what is your emergency"?

    "Shots fired!" lol (Godfather music playing in the background)

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    if its anything like the UK, when you print out the "true" peak HP, you end up with no customers at your door

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    Very Active Member Bering_C_Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_ipp View Post
    This is impossible as the 109r's ecu cannot be read from the connector... You would have to cut it open and read it directly from the board...

    For protection, I close the board connections in my flash so people cannot read it....
    It can be written over, but cannot be read after cutting it open (if you even knew where to cut it.)

    BTW my old dyno reads the same as my brand new one.

    If you want to grow your business don't do it by making up lies... earn it on your own merit.
    Well my friend, I am certainly not trying to bad mouth you intentionally and I am certainly not saying anything that is not 100% true.

    I am simply stating fact as I have seen and experienced it.

    If you are under the impression I cannot read an ECU you have tuned, then you are the one that is incorrect with that assumption.

    I certainly can read it, so if you are under the impression you are locking them down as they go out the door......you may want to double check that, because they are most certainly readable.
    (I know exactly what you are talking about though as I do lock the ECU's that I tune )

    I have never run a stock M109 that produced 114 HP.......so that statement is also absolutely true.

    Also you and I just dealt with the same customer in Slidell Louisiana a few weeks ago I believe.....he is on this forum and I am sure can add something to this discussion if we need to bring in an impartial 3rd who has ran both of our tunes.

    Not trying to start anything or get into a pissing match with you but if you want to say I am making up lies then please specifically tell me which part of what I said you believe is a lie and I will be more than happy to debate that issue with you to show that what I say is not fiction.

    As far as I can see everything I said above is 100% above board.

    Best Regards
    BCS
    Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 04-02-2019 at 09:29 AM.

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    I think it's a matter of preference. On Facebook and other forums people mention BCS, Jason Baker and Ivan as "the best" (among others) To be fair, Ivan is also mentioned as "the best" in Kawasaki, and Yamaha forums; whilst BCS is only mentioned in the M109 forums. That is perfectly fine in my book. BCS is good at what he does, and everything I've heard of his tunes is good. If BCS wants to stick with the 9 and perfect the tune, so be it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with perfecting your craft. Granted BCS, pushes his business a lot and every chance he gets. But he is getting it off the ground and is doing what it takes to make that happen. That's business 101, if you want customers, you need to get the word out. I'm sure he gets exhausted monitoring posts to jump on and reply to gain more customers. Once again, absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. My wife did the same when she started her business, but can relax a bit now that she's an established name here in town. I'm sure BCS will be able to do the same in a matter of time. As far as the "mine is bigger than yours" going on here; how about y'all get together and make the baddest tune available?

  26. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS_man View Post
    I think it's a matter of preference. On Facebook and other forums people mention BCS, Jason Baker and Ivan as "the best" (among others) To be fair, Ivan is also mentioned as "the best" in Kawasaki, and Yamaha forums; whilst BCS is only mentioned in the M109 forums. That is perfectly fine in my book. BCS is good at what he does, and everything I've heard of his tunes is good. If BCS wants to stick with the 9 and perfect the tune, so be it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with perfecting your craft. Granted BCS, pushes his business a lot and every chance he gets. But he is getting it off the ground and is doing what it takes to make that happen. That's business 101, if you want customers, you need to get the word out. I'm sure he gets exhausted monitoring posts to jump on and reply to gain more customers. Once again, absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. My wife did the same when she started her business, but can relax a bit now that she's an established name here in town. I'm sure BCS will be able to do the same in a matter of time. As far as the "mine is bigger than yours" going on here; how about y'all get together and make the baddest tune available?
    Not sure how this got confused as a contest to see who's dick is bigger, I am not reading that here at all.......and for sure thats not my intention, honestly I could care less.

    The only reason I even responded is because i was called a liar.......I simply came back to state that nothing I said is false.

    If anyone thinks anything I said above is false then by all means let me know what part of what I said is incorrect and we can debate that.

    But if you want to come out and call me a liar.......well then that is going to draw a response because I may be a lot of things.....but a liar is not one of them.

    Ivan and I are both grown men so I am pretty sure we can handle any difference of opinion we may have between ourselves.

    BCS

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    Very Active Member FlyingCircus's Avatar
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    Charles did mine and it runs like a champ. He's always here and available, keeps the forum interesting and alive when things were slow and always tweaking by going over and above by adding 02 sensors to tune real time and interested how we think it works. I rode Beartooth Pass which is 11,974 above sea level and Charles was asking how it worked to which I confirmed didn't miss a beat.

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