Problem with front suspension?
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Thread: Problem with front suspension?

  1. #1
    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Default Problem with front suspension?

    hey everyone. i have somewhat a problem with my front. cant seem to figure out what it is, but i am leaning towards the fork.

    when i start moving, if i give a bit more throttle, and get to the friction zone while releasing the clutch, i will fell this violent shaking/jumping of the front of the bike (feels like wheel is bouncing up). while riding my front fork doesn't bottom out unless i hit something, i am also not a small guy, but i hear from time to time a clunk (or feel it in my floorboards) like you would feel on a car with bad front end links, or some bushings on the front suspension (dont know how else to describe it).

    i have read a lot about this occasional clunk, people say you just have to live with it and its something our bikes do?

    i cant figure out the "jumping" of the front when i want to start off a bit harder. when i give less throttle, and release the clutch, it goes, no problem, but when i want to punch it to start a bit more, i`ll get this shaking. if this was posted before, please point me to it, i cant seem to find this specific problem that anyone had with a C. also my fork seems pretty steady, and not too soft when i push down on it.

    is it a fork issue? something else in the neck area where fork connects? i have a feeling that there is slight vibration when i punch it when already moving on the highway, and that vibration goes away when i reach a steady speed and keep the throttle. again this vibration seems to come from the front as well.

    any help would be appreciated.

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  3. #2
    Very Active Member M109Dreamer's Avatar
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    Sounds like clutch shudder from your discription.

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    Very Active Member Stavros's Avatar
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    100% clutch shudder...it sux...Iíve had it for couple years now..my new 2011 clutch just showed up last Friday..canít wait to get it in and get my 1st gear hole shots back...I have to baby 1st gear right now to get it to fully engage but can rip the rest of the shifts...
    Stav

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    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stavros View Post
    100% clutch shudder...it sux...Iíve had it for couple years now..my new 2011 clutch just showed up last Friday..canít wait to get it in and get my 1st gear hole shots back...I have to baby 1st gear right now to get it to fully engage but can rip the rest of the shifts...
    damn it. so i was looking at a wrong thing. thanks for the tips. i thought something is up with my fork. ok, now to clutch shudder. i know nothing about this, so would you mind giving me a few tips in short of what i need to do?

    i`ll also get onto research now. damn it feels awful when it happens, i thought my bike will fall apart!

  7. #5
    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    As stated it sounds like clutch shudder but it will not affect your front wheel cause it's free spinning and not connected to the drive train where the shudder comes from. Basically your clutch plates are gummed up with oil so they cannot smoothly slip so instead they grab and release rapidly which causes that violent rear wheel hopping that shudders the whole bike.

    That clunk you feel is something that happens on most every 109 ive had contact with but Nobody that i am aware of has either figured out what it is that makes that clunk feel in the pegs nor does it seem to cause any problems. Im not saying its a good thing only that its been around since the beginning of this model and although a bit irritating it does seem to be harmless.
    Last edited by Latinrascal; 11-13-2017 at 12:16 PM.

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    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    As stated it sounds like clutch shudder but it will not affect your front wheel cause it's free spinning and not connected to the drive train where the shudder comes from. Basically your clutch plates are gummed up with oil so they cannot smoothly slip so instead they grab and release rapidly which causes that violent rear wheel hopping that shudders the whole bike.

    That clunk you feel is something that happens on most every 109 ive had contact with but Nobody that i am aware of has either figured out what it is that makes that clunk feel in the pegs nor does it seem to cause any problems. Im not saying its a good thing only that its been around since the beginning of this model and although a bit irritating it does seem to be harmless.
    yeah reading about it now, it sucks. would you be able to point me in the right direction for the fix? the whole clutch needs to be replaced? certain parts? what and where to buy? a how to on how to do the repair? might not be able to tackle this right away, but do want to fix it. a bit low on cash right now. would you happen to know what something like this costs to fix?

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    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    Either do a search or post a thread asking for the clutch shudder repair info in the title and someone who has done it recently will most likely show up by the end of the day.

    Someone out there has a "how to" written up with a parts list included but i cant remember who it was offhand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    Either do a search or post a thread asking for the clutch shudder repair info in the title and someone who has done it recently will most likely show up by the end of the day.

    Someone out there has a "how to" written up with a parts list included but i cant remember who it was offhand.

    will do both. thanks

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    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    will do both. thanks
    No problem. .....you stated funds being tight so if i could suggest a route without spending any cash i would say to pull the clutch apart, check the tube nut at this point because you are already there, clean and soak the plates and steels and then open up the oil flow by doing the push pin mod. Lack of oil flow into the clutch is thought to be the primary cause of the clutch shudder issue so you shave the pin down on 3 sides a few thousandths then put it back together and see how it feels. Worst case scenario is that the clutch plates are burnt and you will know for sure they need to be replaced but you will need to get back in there which doubles the work! You might get lucky and just need the push pin mod.

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    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    No problem. .....you stated funds being tight so if i could suggest a route without spending any cash i would say to pull the clutch apart, check the tube nut at this point because you are already there, clean and soak the plates and steels and then open up the oil flow by doing the push pin mod. Lack of oil flow into the clutch is thought to be the primary cause of the clutch shudder issue so you shave the pin down on 3 sides a few thousandths then put it back together and see how it feels. Worst case scenario is that the clutch plates are burnt and you will know for sure they need to be replaced but you will need to get back in there which doubles the work! You might get lucky and just need the push pin mod.
    yeah, reading now about the push pin mod, and will definitely try this first. hopefully this helps. never done anything like this, so looking up step by step on how to do it

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    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    No problem. .....you stated funds being tight so if i could suggest a route without spending any cash i would say to pull the clutch apart, check the tube nut at this point because you are already there, clean and soak the plates and steels and then open up the oil flow by doing the push pin mod. Lack of oil flow into the clutch is thought to be the primary cause of the clutch shudder issue so you shave the pin down on 3 sides a few thousandths then put it back together and see how it feels. Worst case scenario is that the clutch plates are burnt and you will know for sure they need to be replaced but you will need to get back in there which doubles the work! You might get lucky and just need the push pin mod.
    btw, i found a tutorial by Listan1 for M109R. Would this be the same as on our C109R? The push pin is on the right side of the bike?

  14. #12
    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    btw, i found a tutorial by Listan1 for M109R. Would this be the same as on our C109R? The push pin is on the right side of the bike?
    Yup that will work. The push pin is the center axis of the clutch plates. The Hardest part will be removing and resembling the exhaust and even that is not bad for stock and easy for aftermarket pipes.
    The exhaust pipe may mount differently between the C and M but im not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    Yup that will work. The push pin is the center axis of the clutch plates. The Hardest part will be removing and resembling the exhaust and even that is not bad for stock and easy for aftermarket pipes.
    The exhaust pipe may mount differently between the C and M but im not sure.
    thats the first thing i will try. from his tutorial, doesnt seem to big of a deal, and i have the stock, so those bolts might be a bit tight. will figure that out though. need to find where i can machine the pin, and will try this first. will probably take all the plates out to see if they are burnt, and replace the 2 everyone is talking about #2 and #16.

    thanks a lot for your help
    Last edited by mist82; 11-13-2017 at 03:27 PM.

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    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    thats the first thing i will try. from his tutorial, doesnt seem to big of a deal, and i have the stock, so those bolts might be a bit tight. will figure that out though. need to find where i can machine the pin, and will try this first. will probably take all the plates out to see if they are burnt, and replace the 2 everyone is talking about #2 and #16.

    thanks a lot for your help
    On my M109R I only ground the pin, and it did not help at all.
    I do have ready parts :

    # 06 = plate clutch drive # 2 l T:2.0 #21441-48G40 --11.98
    # 12 = seat wave washer .#21471-48G00 --$ 9.01
    # 13 = washer clutch plate #21472-48G10 -- $ 16.50

    In the following pic. those are B, C, D.

    It looks to me that the funny looking "seat wave washer" #12, causes

    problems to both adjoining plates 06 and 13, so I recommend to change all three.






    Remember, this is for M109R.

    Those 3 ground surfaces should be 3mm wide,

    which means that only 0.3 mm of material is ground off.
    M109R 2011 Black, 2" lowering bones, air horn, flash to pass garage door opener, Brakeaway Cruise Control, V-stream windshield, Back Off Brake hold, OEM engine guards, Cobra One Piece rear luggage carrier, Cobra Tri Pro 2 in 1 Black exhaust, Cobra FI 2000 AT fuel processor.

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    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    On my M109R I only ground the pin, and it did not help at all.
    I do have ready parts :

    # 06 = plate clutch drive # 2 l T:2.0 #21441-48G40 --11.98
    # 12 = seat wave washer .#21471-48G00 --$ 9.01
    # 13 = washer clutch plate #21472-48G10 -- $ 16.50

    In the following pic. those are B, C, D.

    It looks to me that the funny looking "seat wave washer" #12, causes

    problems to both adjoining plates 06 and 13, so I recommend to change all three.


    Remember, this is for M109R.

    Those 3 ground surfaces should be 3mm wide,

    which means that only 0.3 mm of material is ground off.
    awesome. thanks a lot for the info. i will try to figure out if part numbers are the same, and get these as well. if im taking that pin out to do the grinding, i might as well replace them just in case. when you swapped these the issue was gone?

  18. #16
    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    awesome. thanks a lot for the info. i will try to figure out if part numbers are the same, and get these as well. if im taking that pin out to do the grinding, i might as well replace them just in case. when you swapped these the issue was gone?
    I have not done that yet, that bike is in Europe Slovakia, but according the people here it was a OK after...

    It is on my 2009/2010 M109R bike there, all the years after have better set of plates inside (6 thinner versus 5 thicker).

    But it is on M109R's, so you need to make sure how it all cross-references to your bike....

    Did you find out about the Google search window on the bottom of every page here?

    Try to look there for the differences .
    M109R 2011 Black, 2" lowering bones, air horn, flash to pass garage door opener, Brakeaway Cruise Control, V-stream windshield, Back Off Brake hold, OEM engine guards, Cobra One Piece rear luggage carrier, Cobra Tri Pro 2 in 1 Black exhaust, Cobra FI 2000 AT fuel processor.

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    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    thats the first thing i will try. from his tutorial, doesnt seem to big of a deal, and i have the stock, so those bolts might be a bit tight. will figure that out though. need to find where i can machine the pin, and will try this first. will probably take all the plates out to see if they are burnt, and replace the 2 everyone is talking about #2 and #16.

    thanks a lot for your help
    You can do the pin with a fine cut metal file very easily. I believe the recommended cut is once the flat cut edges reach 3mm wide your good to go. I would measure out the 3mm wide area with a marker, clamp it into a vise or whatever to hold it steady, then slowly start taking file cuts at the top center of the radius and centered between marks. Keep the file level and then repeat until you cut a flat to the marks of 3mm wide and then repeat this for the entire length on 3 sides of the push pin equal distance from each other.
    I would verify that measurement of 3mm but that's what i remember it being. Also not sure but i think the C model has more plates then the M but again not sure.

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    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    You can do the pin with a fine cut metal file very easily. I believe the recommended cut is once the flat cut edges reach 3mm wide your good to go. I would measure out the 3mm wide area with a marker, clamp it into a vise or whatever to hold it steady, then slowly start taking file cuts at the top center of the radius and centered between marks. Keep the file level and then repeat until you cut a flat to the marks of 3mm wide and then repeat this for the entire length on 3 sides of the push pin equal distance from each other.
    I would verify that measurement of 3mm but that's what i remember it being. Also not sure but i think the C model has more plates then the M but again not sure.
    i have a dremel, gonna use it to grind down the sides. have a bunch of grinding tips, shouldn't be a problem. got some good tips over form another thread i posted, and a link to upgrade the clutch with plates for 2010 and later models that have thiner plates.

    i will do the pin first. if this fixes it, amazing, if not, i will try only the plates #6,#12,#13, and if this doesnt resolve it, i will do the Revo kit upgrade with springs. the thing is i dont want to spend $450 on it, saving money for Gmans performance pack and exhaust eventually, so i need to try to do this on the budget first. needless to say, i can live with the shudder, but i want to fix it as it simply feels awful.

    also tanks a lot for your help

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    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    i have a dremel, gonna use it to grind down the sides. have a bunch of grinding tips, shouldn't be a problem. got some good tips over form another thread i posted, and a link to upgrade the clutch with plates for 2010 and later models that have thiner plates.

    i will do the pin first. if this fixes it, amazing, if not, i will try only the plates #6,#12,#13, and if this doesnt resolve it, i will do the Revo kit upgrade with springs. the thing is i dont want to spend $450 on it, saving money for Gmans performance pack and exhaust eventually, so i need to try to do this on the budget first. needless to say, i can live with the shudder, but i want to fix it as it simply feels awful.

    also tanks a lot for your help
    Please do yourself a favour, and change those 3 plates,

    do not only grind the pin. I did only grinding, and it did not help.

    I only did it because those 3 plates were not readily

    available in Slovakia at that time. When you go in,

    have the gasket available as well, in case it tears

    when opening the clutch case. Open it carefully,

    you should be able to save it.
    M109R 2011 Black, 2" lowering bones, air horn, flash to pass garage door opener, Brakeaway Cruise Control, V-stream windshield, Back Off Brake hold, OEM engine guards, Cobra One Piece rear luggage carrier, Cobra Tri Pro 2 in 1 Black exhaust, Cobra FI 2000 AT fuel processor.

  22. #20
    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    if there is anyway possible for you to spare the roughly $50 shipped to your door i would absolutely do it......But if you cant just be sure to clean up the old set and soak overnight if possible and hope for the best. Worst case scenario you have to go back in. If you are very careful you should be able to separate the cover without tearing it up. Its good to have something like a 1 sided razor or sharp scraper within reach incase you run into a spot that is sticking, slip the razor between the gasket and case and gently help it along just be careful not to slice the gasket, your finger and to gouge the case or cover.

  23. #21
    Member octane orange's Avatar
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    I have an 08 and had judder , only changed the parts listed in this thread and have had no more problems be careful with the pin mod to much oil in the basket cause cloth to grab when hot.

  24. #22
    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    Please do yourself a favour, and change those 3 plates,

    do not only grind the pin. I did only grinding, and it did not help.

    I only did it because those 3 plates were not readily

    available in Slovakia at that time. When you go in,

    have the gasket available as well, in case it tears

    when opening the clutch case. Open it carefully,

    you should be able to save it.
    Will do that for sure. Ordered the plates and gasket! As soon as I have some time, and it comes in, I'll be swapping those and probably doing the pin mod as well.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  25. #23
    Very Active Member thevili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mist82 View Post
    Will do that for sure. Ordered the plates and gasket! As soon as I have some time, and it comes in, I'll be swapping those and probably doing the pin mod as well.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Pin grindings known as quite important, and it is easy,

    dremel style tool will do it, or an angle grinder even faster.
    M109R 2011 Black, 2" lowering bones, air horn, flash to pass garage door opener, Brakeaway Cruise Control, V-stream windshield, Back Off Brake hold, OEM engine guards, Cobra One Piece rear luggage carrier, Cobra Tri Pro 2 in 1 Black exhaust, Cobra FI 2000 AT fuel processor.

  26. #24
    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    Pin grindings known as quite important, and it is easy,

    dremel style tool will do it, or an angle grinder even faster.
    Yup. Will be dremeling it

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  27. #25
    Active Member mist82's Avatar
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    hey guys...got lazy, and finally found some time over a rainy evening to take it all apart, and replace the rings. past 2 days were awesome here in NYC area, and i took it out for a test ride.
    i was shudder free for the first time since i bought it

    i did many times what i know caused the shudder immediately, and it never happened. i can actually take off now from a full stop, before my whole bike would be taking off the ground when i try to roll on a bit more than a few mm while releasing the clutch.

    so i did all 3 rings, and i did the push pin mod. will be testing more when weather gets better, its about to rain here now for 4 days, but i had a question. when i took the stuff out, other than a bit of dirt from oil and maybe some dust particles on edges of the rings, i have noticed that the rings were quite dry. does this mean i dont have enough oil in the clutch? do i need to add? or was this because push pin was just not releasing enough. the pin was soaked in oil when i took it out. Oh yeah, that gasket...there was no way of taking that thing off in one piece. Luckely i ordered one. That thing was so dry and brittle, it ripped into 100 pieces.

    funny thing is my speedometer doesn't work now LOL. i haven't touched anything there, so i`ll have to lift the tank see whats going on, but the display and lights are on, and pointer doesnt move. strange.
    Last edited by mist82; 02-22-2018 at 11:15 AM.

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