Idle Speed Changes
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Thread: Idle Speed Changes

  1. #1
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    Default Idle Speed Changes

    In the past I have asked about an intermittent high speed idle on my 2006 M109R. None of the comments seemed to fit my situation and since the problem doesn't happen all the time, I have been able to live with it. Recently I noticed that when pull up to a red light and stop, place the transmission in neutral to keep tension off the clutch cable, the engine sometimes idles at about 1,500 RPM. If I rev the engine it will often slow down to the 1,000-1,000 idle speed. Also when in neutral and I pull in the clutch, the engine idle will drop to 1,000-1,100 RPM. Why does pulling in on the clutch slow the idle.

    Yes, I understand that it's not good practice to wait at a red light in neutral, but I've been doing it for 53 years and probably won't change.

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  3. #2
    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    The idle speeds up when you let the clutch out and it's in gear, that's normal. Maybe you have an intermittent clutch switch issue.

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    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Hmm how many miles on your 06?
    Why because your disengaging the transition and if in gear there may be clutch plate slippage which is normal to some degree, the engine is fighting through the slippage and that's why the RPM will drop.
    As for the high RPM the map sensor is not aware of extra air, you may be sucking air from another place, called false air. ( hubby helped me answer this one)


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  6. #4
    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biker-chicky View Post
    Hmm how many miles on your 06?
    Why because your disengaging the transition and if in gear there may be clutch plate slippage which is normal to some degree, the engine is fighting through the slippage and that's why the RPM will drop.
    HUH! What the hell are you talking about? Clutch slippage is normal? In who's world? Fighting through the slippage? Where on earth did you come up with that?


    Quote Originally Posted by biker-chicky View Post
    As for the high RPM the map sensor is not aware of extra air, you may be sucking air from another place, called false air. ( hubby helped me answer this one)
    Well, the 109 doesn't use a MAP sensor (since there is no manifold). It uses an IAPS sensor which measures the air pressure in the intake box so it would see "false air" coming in from other sources upstream of the throttle bodies. Also, the idle air control is what controls the idle speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    HUH! What the hell are you talking about? Clutch slippage is normal? In who's world? Fighting through the slippage? Where on earth did you come up with that?




    Well, the 109 doesn't use a MAP sensor (since there is no manifold). It uses an IAPS sensor which measures the air pressure in the intake box so it would see "false air" coming in from other sources upstream of the throttle bodies. Also, the idle air control is what controls the idle speed.
    Awe so it's called IAPS good, thanks, as clutches wear out ya there's some slip, and that's what clutches do, slip to some degree. Mine are half worn, can tell there's slip.


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    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Here is the m109r map sensor http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nk...p2047675.m4096

    Lots of fuel injected combustion engines including motorcycles have a map sensor


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    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Yes there is also an iaps sensor https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=165448

    Not much on it in google search tho.


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    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biker-chicky View Post
    Here is the m109r map sensor http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nk...p2047675.m4096

    Lots of fuel injected combustion engines including motorcycles have a map sensor
    But, the M109 does not use a MAP sensor. Regardless of what you found on e-bay, it doesn't have one. Look in the service manual and there is none.

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    Very Active Member biker-chicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    But, the M109 does not use a MAP sensor. Regardless of what you found on e-bay, it doesn't have one. Look in the service manual and there is none.
    Well maybe it's all the same thing just called something different depending on the country?


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    Quote Originally Posted by biker-chicky View Post
    as clutches wear out ya there's some slip, and that's what clutches do, slip to some degree. Mine are half worn, can tell there's slip.
    Clutches are designed to slip. That is until they lock up when fully engaged.

    And, as a clutch wears it does not automatically slip. There is a point at which they can slip if it becomes extremely worn or some clutch friction materials can become glazed. However, even if that was true what you wrote made no sense whatsoever. Fighting through the slip?

    There is no reason that a half-worn clutch would slip. Even if half the friction material was gone from the plates there is no reduction is surface area. It remains the same. The only real thing that happens is the springs will put slightly less pressure on the clutch pack. But, considering how long the M109 springs are the difference between the pressure exerted on a new pack and one that is half worn would be minimal.

    I know you're trying to be helpful but you really are out of your element.

  13. #11
    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biker-chicky View Post
    Well maybe it's all the same thing just called something different depending on the country?
    They perform essentially the same function. But, since we're dealing with an M109 it's an IAPS as referenced in the service manual.

  14. #12
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    Default Idle Speed Changes

    Thank you for the detail, see, this is all good for the fella asking the the question above. Makes total sense as to the possibilities to his query. Wether I'm in or out of my element, sorry if I'm not there yet! Been on my 06 for 10 years, I feel like I'm well in my element to help when I can. If you like I won't even try, then no one will be out there to correct anything and no one will get any possible answers as he had mentioned already.


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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    On my 06, the only time I've ever gotten a high idle was when I started it too soon after turning the key on, not letting the tach finish it's sweep. Other than that, never.

    As for the putting it in neutral at stop lights, like you been doing it all my riding life. Of course, I pay attention to who is behind me, or coming up behind me. That's what mirrors are for.

    Been rear-ended once, and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. If I'd have had it in gear, it wouldn't have helped.
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  16. #14
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    Same here . I put it in neutral at red lights . Of course , I am always vigilant for behind me and at my sides .

  17. #15
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    My 2006 M109R has just under 10,000 miles. The high speed idle is not terribly high at 1,500. I noticed the intermittent high speed idle when I bought the bike at around 3,000 miles two years ago. Since then I have opened the stock exhaust by boring out two baffles and drilling eight 1/2" holds through the plates on the ends of the mufflers. No change to the idle situation as far as I can tell. This is an intermittent problem.

    Since the transmission is in neutral, I suppose pulling in the clutch relieves a small amount of drag in the input side of the transmission. I am running 15W-50 synthetic Mobile 1 oil.

    No problems on start up. The bike always idles normally (1,000 to 1,100 RPM).

    I would like know why the idle speed increases once in a while.

  18. #16
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    Mine is a 2013 and it idles normally from 800 up to 1000 rpm .

  19. #17
    Very Active Member UVATom's Avatar
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    I have noticed this happening more on mine recently. I think I may need to change the filters but can not find the replacements for the spikes anymore. Mine idles erratic from time to time with the clutch out and in neutral but pull in the clutch and it smooths right out.

  20. #18
    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    The filters for the spikes should be cleanable. Nothing more or less than K & N filters.
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