Actual HP is uncorrected and will vary dramatically depending on the day (answer is for the many that don't understand)
My dyno is actually a heartbreaker for many people... (reads lower HP than most of the Dynojet model 250's)
I can post some uncorrected #'s if people want to see them.
What about if i first buy and install PCV( ´cos money) and leave everything else original. Especially the pipes because all parts all very expensive here in Finland. Will i still be able to get more torq and better throttle etc even original pipes are too small? My bike is original and i really don´t like it under 3500rpm. Twitching in low rpm, as you know.
Was here anybody´s result in dyno, only with commarder?
If you have twitchy throttle at low revs a TRE will help that lot.
Yeah, I've been thinking buying TRE but if I put PCV afterwards, isn't tre useless then? Or if it's not, what would be best order when buying and installing 1 at time?
Tre, pc, air intake, pipes? Of course dyno every time.
Last edited by tv79; 08-24-2015 at 06:13 PM.
You can install the TRE at any time. You need the PC-V after you do both pipes and intake. You can do either pipes or intake without adding fuel, but I think they run better even stock with a good tune.
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HP/Torque: 121.1Hp/ 115.6lbft
Mods: K&N air filters
Fuel management and settings: fuel/air ratio tune-up
Before and after differences: before tune-up 120.3HP/112.1lbft
Location of shop and prices to tune: Goes (Holland) $140 (Ruud Frederiks)
1/4 mile times: don't know
Additional comments, suggestions, and observations of your experience at the dyno: this was done in July, now she has Cobra swepped exhaust, Duck covers air filter covers (cutout skull) I closed the back side of the filter cases so only cool air gets in and I can already feel the difference, next wednesday I go back for a power commander install and re-map, lets see what she brings!!
Last edited by Mando; 11-13-2015 at 02:00 AM.
went back to the dyno and installed a power commander V and did the remap, this is the result:
HP/Torque: 119.0 Hp/ 127.9 lbft
Mods: K&N air filters, Duck covers, Cobra exhaust
Fuel management and settings: Power commander V, remap
Before and after differences: only K&N air filters (tune up with Yoshibox) 121.1 HP/115.6 lbft, added Cobra exhaust and Duck airfilter covers 115.2 HP/121.0 lbft
Location of shop and prices to tune: Goes (Holland) $510 power commander included
1/4 mile times: don't know
Additional comments, suggestions, and observations of your experience at the dyno: exhaust and covers gave a power loss of 6 Hp but gained 5.4 lbft of torque!! question is if I should de-cat the standard exhaust and use that or stick with this set-up?
Last edited by Mando; 11-13-2015 at 01:59 AM.
First at all. Friend of mine has a dyno for cars and we just tested for fun what we get. Results are computer´s calculated powers from motor ( for the cars), not from back tyre.
Like your results from mcdynos!?! Those are real power from tire?
But like i said, just for fun and see how the line goes.
Also we drove the dyno on 3rd gear, drivers mistake.
HP/Torque: 130,2HP / 106,7 lbft(144,6NM) (From backtyre 117,5hp/6722rpm, checked from computer)
Mods: Power Commander V, Autotune, TRE, everything else stock
So, were is my torque? I mean if factory promises 125hp/160Nm and those results are power from motor... We had like 130hp/144Nm....
I mean, after PCV they should be even near what factory promises, even they give little big bigger results than real...
But what you think next, V&H when i get enought money...
And little bit of topic, do they made slipper clutch for M109? had almost accident, because i don´t have gear indicator, and i put accidentally the first gear on while turning right on crossroad with too much speed so back tire went lock and i almost flip the bike.
Last edited by tv79; 06-17-2016 at 02:26 PM.
Well, after I installed a pcV and some mods I decided to see where I am at. I basically wanted a baseline to decide if spending $500 on a tune is necessary. I got a map file from Latinrascal since our setups are very similar. I am pleased with the results, however I am running pretty lean according to the Dyno operator. Anyway, here are the results.....not too shabby considering the map is "generic" to my bike.
2016 M109R BOSS
Bassani Pro Turnouts
Baron's Big Air Kit
Dyno tuned at Twin Performance Cycles in Garner NC
Healtech XTRE to be installed soon(it doesn't arrive until Monday😢
I see some pretty impressive numbers on this thread for the mods that have been done. I will take what I got out of mine as you can see by the pre-tune graph there was a horrible lean spot that had been eliminated via the tune.
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Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
2013 m109r 2500miles
cobra swept exhaust
power commander v
before Dyno tune
after Dyno tune
would have liked to do a stock run before I added things to see what bone stock was but couldn't. the shop did a great job and they said the map I had load was real close on a/f but they sill managed to gain me an extra 4hp and 2ft lbs of torque. wish it was a bit more, but the bike is much smoother now as well
So I had my bike's ECU flashed and dyno tuned at Jupiter Cycle Racing in Jupiter FL. They have a good reputation. My bike is stock except for K&ns, I like the quieter exhaust and slash cut OEM look. I wanted the lean fuel air ratio corrected and to get rid of all the snatchy, jerky throttle issues in 1-3. The bike is totally different now. The power curve is more like an inline 4. Much much better and more rideable especially in lower gears / speeds. My problem is someone put over 250 miles on the bike the week it was there. I thought this was pretty excessive as if someone had been riding it all week or something. The owner left just before I paid and got my bike back so I had to email him asking about it. He said no one rode it on the street at all and the miles were from the dyno tune. IS that a normal amount of miles to expect from a dyno tune? I really can't say anything. I'm not going to call him a liar as I've never had a bike dyno tuned before. What has your experience been?
- My memory's not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
- God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the vision to tell the difference.
The M109R speedometer is read off the back tire. And there is no way they put 250 miles on it on a dyno. 10 miles would be excessive. Someone rode the bike and the owner is focking lying his ass off about it. They probably thrashed it like a rented mule as well. I'd be pissed if it was me. I bet they didn't even put premium in the tank when filling it.
The OP says the bike was at the shop for a entire week.
If the shop was tuning the entire ECU map set and actually had the bike up on the dyno all day for the time it was in the shop then it is totally believable that they put 250 miles on the bike.
I have gone through an entire tank of gas many times in a day on my dyno.
Tank of gas doing lots of pulls including WOT runs is going to be over 100 miles worth of equivalent street riding.
Full blown racing software such as Woolich allows you to tune IAP Fuel Maps, TPS Fuel Maps, Ignition Timing Maps, Secondary Throttle Plate Maps in addition to lifting a lot of restriction parameters put on the bike from factory.
So if the tuner had your bike for a week and went through each of these maps tuning them on the dyno then it is very believable that he put 250 miles on your bike.
IAP & TPS fuel maps and the ignition maps all have separate maps for each cylinder. So if they were tuning using individual maps and did not unify them. then there could be as many as 14 different maps in your ECU they may have manipulated and tested many times to get you the tune you have now.
Not to mention any tuner is likely going to ride your bike on the street as well to know that it performs as it should.
If you ended up with a good tune and are happy with the way your bike rides now, I would not be so fast to start calling the tuner out about that amount of miles put on your bike.
Most guys picture dyno tuning as they roll up to the shop, the tech puts their bike on the dyno, taps on his laptop for a few minutes, makes 2 or 3 pulls on the dyno and then taps on the laptop a little more, couple of more pulls on the dyno and they are done.
The reason for this is because..... this is exactly what most guys get.
They buy a power commander, the tuner downloads a generic map from dynojet, writes this generic map to the power commander and then trims up the top end WOT column a bit with a few pulls on the dyno and out the door you go.......And they ride away believing they have the best possible tune that money can buy.
It is very likely that you received a tune that is much more inclusive and much better than the majority out there, if your tuner put in the time on the dyno using a true racing software such as Woolich to tune the ECU directly.
And this is absolutely not measured by your bike "having a larger top end HP # than someone else's" (That is more of a "my **** is bigger than your **** game" that can easily be manipulated)......its about how the bike rides throughout the entire RPM range at every throttle position, how smooth your acceleration and deceleration is and how crisp your on and off throttle response and knowing the bike is in a good AFR range throughout the entire map set (Not just WOT) + a half dozen other things.
It takes a lot of work and time to get there, but the end result is worth it.
Another thing you should always consider when receiving comments and following advice you get on forums and FB is......have those giving you the advice actually ever done what is being discussed themselves and really know what they are saying is fact? Or are they just telling you what they "think or believe is true" or what they have heard from someone else on a FB page. (who may have never done it either)
Lots of keyboard mechanics and tuners out there with no actual real world experience giving advice on things they know little or nothing about. (Hang out on the FB pages and you will see this happen all day long....every day)
Just read back though this thread dating back to 2011 and you will see a lot of this here also.
(Might even see a post or two like this from me when I first got started.....LOL.....I was not born tuning motorcycles, I got started doing this to fix problems with ECU tunes I and my friends got from someone else......one thing led to another and over the years it turned into a business..... I still learn new things everyday also)
Of course I am just speculating as to what was actually done to your bike myself, as I have no way to know what your tuner did......I was not there.
I am simply letting you know that the mileage put on your bike is very possible when doing a complete tune of all the maps in the ECU.
I have hundreds of hours, thousands of miles and I could not even begin to tell you how many tanks of gas I have gone though developing my ECU tunes......Its a process for sure.... completely tuning the ECU ts not a few magical taps on the keyboard and you are all done like the majority of guys out there believe.....It takes time, effort and money to this.
I know because I have a small fortune tied up in equipment and time doing this and I am nowhere close to being done and calling it finished....its a never ending process that goes on and on. Always tweaking and searching for ways to make them just a bit better every time I ride or get on the dyno)
If you are looking for a quick tune that is only going to put a few miles on your bike building it up......get a power commander and pull into any local dyno shop....they will have you out the out the door in a couple of hours.
But if you want something much better than that, then tuning the ECU directly is the way to go and you have likely chosen well with the route you took.
(EDIT.....after reading the above paragraph I realized I needed to come back and add this statement......"or if you want a very good, easy to install, affordable solution to tune your bike, you can purchase a ECU tune that someone else has already spent the time and money to develop...... (Yes I am talking about from me....LOL ))
Could your dyno graph you posted be a little better....Sure it could.
Could you get a little more HP out of your bike?....Sure you could.
But what you have is not bad at all and is pretty typical of what I would expect to see.
Your AFR below 2800 could use a little tweaking, but not often are you going to be pulling the throttle to 100% in 4th gear from below 2000 RPM's. (And if you look at a lot of dyno graphs you will see some don't even start recording the run until around 2500 to 3000 RPM in a lot of cases to keep from having to trim up this lower RPM area.
Tuning on the dyno is great and its how most tunes are built, but I prefer to use a combination of dyno as well as real time riding in real world conditions.
My bike is wired so I can do this and there is a difference when you look at the results from these two tuning methods.
You are not loading the dyno when pulling these WOT runs....Yet your bike is certainly encountering more resistance from black top than it is sitting on the dyno.
The air flow contacting your intakes is not 100+ mph sitting on the dyno.....yet it is when you bang the throttle riding on the road.
(Just a couple of examples)
Enjoy your ride, keep your head on a swivel and stay safe out there.
Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 02-18-2020 at 12:12 AM.
That makes me feel better. I have zero experience with dyno tuning or the modding of the OEM ECU. I was caught off guard by the miles added on the dyno. I made it clear my priority was not more HP and TQ but rideability. Bike is much better now as far as smooth throttle. Still pulls like a raped ape, I just have to wring it out a bit so I am happy. Thanks. I wish you were on my coast or vice versa!
Just read back though this and notice you say your bike is stock. (I missed that part the first time)
Knowing this now raises a couple of questions in my mind.
1) Was your pair valve system blocked off before the dyno tuning was done?
2) How was sampling of each cylinder's AFR accomplished?
If the pair was not blocked then air is added to the exhaust stroke which will skew your AFR readings.
And how were sniffer tubes put into each independent cylinder to sample AFR.......the bike is a baffled 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust with a catalytic converter just after the 2 header pipes come together, then they break out into 2 separate pipes again.
So not much chance of snaking standard sniffer tubes into each pipe to get independent AFR readings. Even if you drilled the baffles out you are not getting past the cat catalyst.
The only way I can think to sample each cylinder with the stock exhaust would be to drill and weld bungs on each header pipe before the cat converter and attach sampling tubes or install wide band O2 sensors.
If put the sniffers into the back of each pipe you would not be getting true AFR readings from each cylinder.
The 2 pipes join together in the cat chamber before which would mix the exhaust from the 2 cylinders together.....this is not going to give you an accurate AFR reading.......not to mention the cat converter will also be skewing the AFR reading since its is converting hydrocarbons (gasoline) into carbon dioxide.
Hmm that is something to ponder for sure.......and a big reason to just ditch the stock pipes ..... they are heavy, have a cat converter, a set valve and honestly I just cannot see why anyone who wants to modify their bike keeps them or even worse spends time, effort and money trying to cut them down and turn them into something they are not....and never will be. (Not talking about you specifically OP.....but there a lot out there who do)
Last edited by Bering_C_Sparky; 02-19-2020 at 11:53 PM.