Upgrade from M90 to M109r
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Thread: Upgrade from M90 to M109r

  1. #1
    Member suzu90's Avatar
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    Default Upgrade from M90 to M109r

    Guys,

    I have an 09 M90 with 9k miles on it. Couple of tasteful mods... 250 Dunny E3, chin spoiler, cobra dragsters, ATRE, led underglow, LED headlight, lowered and a few other things. It has been my first bike for 1.5 years and felt great until I just kinda outgrew it. Even with the ATRE and pipes, I want more power.

    I sat on a 2013 M109r with 3300 miles on it this weekend ($6900). Had cobra swept exhaust, and a metzeler 280 on it. It was all black with chrome. They would not allow test ride for insurance purposes but I started it and it sounded great.

    Financially, there is no reason not to do this. But I wanted to ask you guys about a few things first before pulling the trigger. My M90 has been super reliable, just requiring an oil change, and new back tire. Here are some questions:

    1. I know the 9 is pretty bullet proof too compared to most bikes but I have heard about some transmission issues on the earlier models although I wasn't sure if that was resolved by 2013. How are the 2013's trans and clutch reliability??

    2. Since I did not get to drive it, I don't know what the power difference is... Is it really that much more power than an M90 with ATRE?

    3. Can I put the TRE on the 9? And if so, is it possible to have an ATRE/XTRE along with a power commander or is it a "one or the other" kind of thing?

    4. The Metzeler 280 really didnt look so much bigger than my E3 250... Maybe because the rear of the 90 is smaller so it makes it pop more. I am very pleased with the performance of the E3, does the Metzeler 280 perform the same or better? And is it really 30mm bigger??

    Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. In all honesty I love the M90. It looks and sounds great. Its the darker red color that matches perfectly with my car. Has all the looks I want. If I had to keep it, I would be content. Just would always have that curiosity about the extra power in the back of my mind. Let me know what you guys think.

    Thanks
    Eric

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    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    I have a 2013 M109r (6,900 miles) with an X-TRE and a Cobra fuel management , the manual type , installed . The bike has also the Cobra 2 to 1 exhaust . My bike runs like new . The addition of the X-TRE and the Cobra fuel control , is to me , mandatory to increase the power of the bike big time , lol... The power of this bike is , simply speaking, brutal , to put in a short word ... As a matter of fact, I was really afraid of the bike launching from underneath me and leaving me sitting on the pavement any day , so I bought a backrest to get the support I needed and I killed two birds with one shot as they say , because the backrest turned out to be super comfortable while riding .
    The E-3250 tire , which I have on the rear is actually wider than the Metzeler, believe it or not .
    On the front , I have the Avon 160-60-18 which makes it a much softer ride and gives the bike a massive look .
    There are a ton of upgrades in the bike , Superchargers intake kit, adjustable bones , Revo temp/voltmeter kit, LED main bulb and rear lights, etc etc etc




    Last edited by josey088; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:19 PM.

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    Member suzu90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josey088 View Post
    I have a 2013 M109r (6,900 miles) with an X-TRE and a Cobra fuel management , the manual type , installed . The bike has also the Cobra 2 to 1 exhaust . My bike runs like new . The addition of the X-TRE and the Cobra fuel control , is to me , mandatory to increase the power of the bike big time , lol... The power of this bike is , simply speaking, brutal , to put in a short word ... As a matter of fact, I was really afraid of the bike launching from underneath me and leaving me sitting on the pavement any day , so I bought a backrest to get the support I needed and I killed two birds with one shot as they say , because the backrest turned out to be super comfortable while riding .
    The E-3250 tire , which I have on the rear is actually wider than the Metzeler, believe it or not .
    On the front , I have the Avon 160-60-18 which makes it a much softer ride and gives the bike a massive look .
    There are a ton of upgrades in the bike , Superchargers intake kit, adjustable bones , Revo temp/voltmeter kit, LED main bulb and rear lights, etc etc etc




    Excellent thank you Josey this is what I needed to hear. And yea i swore my M90 E3 250 looks wider than the Metz 280. I will go sign for it today then. I will repot back on the differences and impression since I will be able to do a direct comparison.
    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    1. I would look and make sure there is no leak from the secondary rubber boot area. I previously purchased a used 2011 LE M109R that did have the leak, had I known about the leak issue beforehand, I would have had the dealer take pics of the area before I purchased.

    https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=332009

    2. Haven't ridden an M90, so can't compare, but with good intakes, exhaust and ECU flash, I think the M109R feels very 1st gen VMax'ish as far as power. The power is very addictive!

    3. I wouldn't bother with the TRE and/or fuel tuner, just contact BCS and have him flash your ECU. An ECU flash is a much more comprehensive tune than just a TRE and fuel tuner can provide.

    4. The rim width is going to limit how wide the tire can actually expand to. Too wide of a tire on a small width wheel will cause the tire profile to be more round/pointy because the tire is not able to expand to its designed width. I'm not sure what the rear wheel width is on the M90, but it's possible the 250 is not able to expand to its full width causing a more rounded profile. I've got a 260 Cobra Chrome on the back of my 2017 M109R, which is still in spec for the tire, but also has a more round profile than the stock 240.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos109 View Post
    1. I would look and make sure there is no leak from the secondary rubber boot area. I previously purchased a used 2011 LE M109R that did have the leak, had I known about the leak issue beforehand, I would have had the dealer take pics of the area before I purchased.

    https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=332009

    2. Haven't ridden an M90, so can't compare, but with good intakes, exhaust and ECU flash, I think the M109R feels very 1st gen VMax'ish as far as power. The power is very addictive!

    3. I wouldn't bother with the TRE and/or fuel tuner, just contact BCS and have him flash your ECU. An ECU flash is a much more comprehensive tune than just a TRE and fuel tuner can provide.

    4. The rim width is going to limit how wide the tire can actually expand to. Too wide of a tire on a small width wheel will cause the tire profile to be more round/pointy because the tire is not able to expand to its designed width. I'm not sure what the rear wheel width is on the M90, but it's possible the 250 is not able to expand to its full width causing a more rounded profile. I've got a 260 Cobra Chrome on the back of my 2017 M109R, which is still in spec for the tire, but also has a more round profile than the stock 240.
    Good info, thank you. I am looking forward to the power. I am not aware of any leaks on it, but I will verify. Does the BCS tune have to be done on a dyno? Or can it be sent?

    And you are right about the tire profiles. In this case I have a stock M109r rim on the rear of my 90 to fit the 250. Otherwise it would never fit (stock is 200).

    Thanks
    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    Quote Originally Posted by suzu90 View Post
    Good info, thank you. I am looking forward to the power. I am not aware of any leaks on it, but I will verify. Does the BCS tune have to be done on a dyno? Or can it be sent?

    And you are right about the tire profiles. In this case I have a stock M109r rim on the rear of my 90 to fit the 250. Otherwise it would never fit (stock is 200).

    Thanks

    No, you send your ECU to BCS, he flashes it, he sends it back, you put it back in your bike and you're ready to go.

    BCS is a drag racer as well as has his own dyno, so all the data he collects racing goes into his tunes as well as the dyno tuning time he spends on the M109R.

    https://www.m109riders.com/forums/sh...&highlight=ECU
    Last edited by Kratos109; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:09 PM.

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    Yes, the option of BCS flashing the ECU is also good .
    Me, at the time , when I installed the X-TRE and the Cobra fuel tuner , there was no other choice , Flashing was not available or at least I was not aware of it , but it has worked perfect for me , without a single problem and it has improved power on my bike tremendously , so I cannot complain about at all . It is "old tech" if you want to put it like that , but it works and I did it myself .
    The only thing I would not like about flashing the ECU is having to mail it out .

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    Very Active Member UVATom's Avatar
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    1 - The 109R is pretty reliable. With it being a 2013 the clutch is the new design. The biggest problem areas are the motor mounts, clutch cable breaking (at least on the older ones), and the shift from 1st to 2nd can be a little tricky.

    2 - Yes, it is more powerful. I don't think you will be disappointed.

    3 - You can but as others have said flashing seems to be the cheaper route nowadays. BCS will also mail you a ECU and swap yours for a small additional cost. If you don't go the flash route then make sure you get the XTRE or your gear indicator won't work along with a fuel tuner.

    4 - The 260 Metzler is not as wide as the E3 but does have a much rounder profile which to me makes the handling better. I don't think the Met lasts as long but I don't think it's a major difference. I use to buy the E3 myself but that was mainly because it cost less. Now the E3 is hard to find and costs about as much.
    Last edited by UVATom; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:15 PM.

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    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    I think you will be happy with the difference in power between the M90 and the M109. Be sure to take the M109 out on a test ride. When you make that shift from first into second, give it some serious juice while in 2nd gear. If there is a transmission issue, it will typically be felt while in second gear. The earlier models also had something known as clutch shutter in first gear. That would be felt when releasing the clutch in first from a stand still. It would feel as if there was a jerking going on as if you were not releasing the clutch fully. My 06 had a slight clutch shutter, and my 07 had the beginnings of the 2nd gear issue. It never jumped out of gear, but it felt kinda like riding a bicycle and the chain would start to slip on the sprocket. This only would be felt when in full throttle in 2nd gear. My 08 had no issues at all, and my 2013 was really nice. In fact, the shifting was much smoother than either of the previous 3. It still will have a clunk when going to 2nd., but not nearly as bad as the other years. This change took place in 2011. Good luck shopping.

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    My 2013 has the "clunk" noise when going from first to 2nd sometimes and not too often , but that is all , no issues at all . As a matter of fact, it shifts very smooth , specially when downshifting which it is like velvet .
    The problem with the 2nd shifting on the early models , to my knowledge , was fixed by Suzuki on the 2010 and up .

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    Very Active Member JUDAH-9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzu90 View Post
    Good info, thank you. I am looking forward to the power. I am not aware of any leaks on it, but I will verify. Does the BCS tune have to be done on a dyno? Or can it be sent?

    And you are right about the tire profiles. In this case I have a stock M109r rim on the rear of my 90 to fit the 250. Otherwise it would never fit (stock is 200).

    Thanks
    If youre going to have BCS flash your ECU (which I highly recommend), you should have him do a Full ECU Flash, and not waste your time and money of an XTRE and/or any sort of Fuel Management System. It has been proven that BCSs Full ECU Flash produces for greater results than ANY Fuel Management System and XTRE could/will ever produce. Plus, the ECU Flash will cost less than the XTRE and Fuel Manager combined.

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    Thanks everyone for the replies and info.

    Not super concerned about the clunk from 1st to 2nd. My M90 1st to 2nd shift is rough. You really gotta make sure you pull the clutch in good and that your foot hits the shifter completely or it'll go into neutral instead. Suzuki mechanic said everything is fine, that's just how it shifts...?? I don't ever have issues with it because I know what to expect already, but it has caught other people off guard who have ridden it.

    I will contact BCS after a few weeks once I get used to the 9 to get the full tune. I am picking up the 9 today.

    Need to sell the M90, wife isn't having it. I was going to trade it in to the dealer but those guys offered $3000. I'll let it go for cheap just to get it out of the garage but man $3k is a low blow. Its in great shape too.
    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    Picked up the 9 yesterday. Rides great. And power difference is significant, in every gear, in every RPM, but especially leaving in 1st. Talk about powerhouse....

    As far as handling, it handles like my 90 with the 250 tire on it, but I do feel the 90 is a little easier to throw around. The 9 is longer, wider, and heavier and you can feel that in the handling compared to the 90. But bigger all around is what I wanted so I don't mind it at all.

    Overall very happy with it and it makes me feel better about letting the 90 go. Ill get a few picture of both together though before I get rid of the 90. Maybe some draggy numbers too from each one to compare if I can dial in the launch.

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    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzu90 View Post
    Picked up the 9 yesterday. Rides great. And power difference is significant, in every gear, in every RPM, but especially leaving in 1st. Talk about powerhouse....

    As far as handling, it handles like my 90 with the 250 tire on it, but I do feel the 90 is a little easier to throw around. The 9 is longer, wider, and heavier and you can feel that in the handling compared to the 90. But bigger all around is what I wanted so I don't mind it at all.

    Overall very happy with it and it makes me feel better about letting the 90 go. Ill get a few picture of both together though before I get rid of the 90. Maybe some draggy numbers too from each one to compare if I can dial in the launch.

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    Wow, look like you got a great deal. When you stated that you had a 280 on the rear, I was anticipating seeing a stock rear wheel that someone had put a 280 on. But I see now that it has custom wheels. With that alone, it makes your price of $6900 a really smoking deal. I am sure you will enjoy it, as this photo is really making me miss my 2013. Be safe.

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    Very Active Member Mrtallguy67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzu90 View Post
    Picked up the 9 yesterday. Rides great. And power difference is significant, in every gear, in every RPM, but especially leaving in 1st. Talk about powerhouse....

    As far as handling, it handles like my 90 with the 250 tire on it, but I do feel the 90 is a little easier to throw around. The 9 is longer, wider, and heavier and you can feel that in the handling compared to the 90. But bigger all around is what I wanted so I don't mind it at all.

    Overall very happy with it and it makes me feel better about letting the 90 go. Ill get a few picture of both together though before I get rid of the 90. Maybe some draggy numbers too from each one to compare if I can dial in the launch.

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    Congrats on the new 9! Good to see you have custom wheels running that 280, that's the proper way to do it. Looks like you are on a stock swing arm, so that means you will have to let the air out and finagle it in and out for tire changes. There is a vid on youtube where a guy shows how you have to do it. Id recommend you check it out to make your life easier on tire changes. Also, due to the length of the exhaust and the fact that the 280 has to go in sideways to clear the swingarm and then rotate (will make more sense after you see the clip). You might have to pull you exhaust for tire changes. Like everyone else id highly recommend BCS for a full flash. Money welllllll spent and will make the bike ride so much smoother.

    BOTM: SEPT 2016
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    Member suzu90's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for the good info and support. I love the way this bike feels. Nice to have both in the stable, but I keep getting offers on the 90 so it will be gone soon. Shame... they look beast next to each other.

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    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    Very Active Member JUDAH-9's Avatar
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    Congratulations on your new (to you) M109R. Why not just keep your M90, and have the best of both worlds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by suzu90 View Post
    Thanks guys for the good info and support. I love the way this bike feels. Nice to have both in the stable, but I keep getting offers on the 90 so it will be gone soon. Shame... they look beast next to each other.

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    About a year ago I rode with a group of SF M109 riders down the Pacific Coast Highway from Monterey to Big Sur THEN home by way of the road from the coast east through Fort Hunter-Liggett (can't go that way now because of the Dolan Wildfire damage)...There were 2 M90s in the group and when we got to the reeeeleeee tight corners they seemed to do a-bit better than the M109s...just saying...I love my M109 and would not trade it but the M90 has its moments..PEACE RIDE SAFE

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    Very Active Member meierjn's Avatar
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    I had a 2009 M90. I'd still have it if it wasn't written off in an accident with a left turning vehicle 2 years ago. It was a great bike with plenty of power for me. I rode with my wife 2-up more than I rode solo. There was plenty of passing power always available if need be! It was a bit more maneuverable than my current M109R. All that being said the M109R is a beast and a bit of a step up from the M90. Mine is still fully stock and I cant imagine the difference with an intake, exhaust and ECU flash. Maybe some day, but for now I'm happy with the bike as is!

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    Very Active Member Frotosride's Avatar
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    Congrats on the 9 and enjoy the power. As you already know, all the Boulevard series have that tricky 1-2 shift and the fun throttle moments at low speed low gear combinations. My first Boulevard was an M50 and I beat it like a circus bike. The size of the 9 made me a little shy at first but it didn't last long and I treat both of them the same. Imagine how much I enjoyed the power upgrade!!
    "Beat it like a red-headed Ford":
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    I have been able to ride both a bit more over the last few days and yea the 90 is just a bit better at handling, but its not a huge difference. I guess if it had the stock 200 tire on the back of the 90 instead of the 250 it would be even easier to throw around. Both bikes handle great for being big beast, you don't really feel their weight.

    Powerwise, the 90 feels torquey especially with the TRE. Its quicker than most cruisers out there (never lost to a harley) but the 9 is just a monster. I love the power on the 9. Its addicting. And to me it sounds a little better too. I think the Scat Pack Vs Hellcat analogy fits real well.

    For some reason though I feel like the gears are longer on the 90. Is the gearing more aggressive on the 9?

    I think I will take you guys up on keeping both... Wife is starting to calm down now about me having too many toys. She mentioned keeping the 90 until tax season where I might be able to sell it for more.
    '09 Suzuki M90- 250 tire, ATRE, lowered, front spoiler, Cobra Speedsters, LEDs, & few other cosmetics
    '13 Suzuki M109r Metz 280, Cobra Swept exhaust, LED Headlight
    '05 Jaguar XJR fbo, Nitrous/supercharged 600+hp

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    Very Active Member JUDAH-9's Avatar
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    Good deal Bro. You should treat your wife especially nice, for being so understanding and patient. Perhaps she may even tell you to just keep the 90 and not worry about selling it. For sure, thats exactly what my wife wouldve said from the onset. She spoils me to the 10th power...24/7.

    I hope you get to keep the 90. It looks sweet!!!😁👍🏽👊🏽🏆✋🏽🏆👊🏽👍🏽😁

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    Very Active Member BorderlandBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meierjn View Post
    I had a 2009 M90. I'd still have it if it wasn't written off in an accident with a left turning vehicle 2 years ago. It was a great bike with plenty of power for me. I rode with my wife 2-up more than I rode solo. There was plenty of passing power always available if need be! It was a bit more maneuverable than my current M109R. All that being said the M109R is a beast and a bit of a step up from the M90. Mine is still fully stock and I cant imagine the difference with an intake, exhaust and ECU flash. Maybe some day, but for now I'm happy with the bike as is!
    Ditto...My (mine's stock too except for the Cobra Swepts) M109's a 'beast'...I love the fact that on 99% of the 'Group' rides I go on (99% are country roads)...the riders I can't keep up with at my age I don't worry about...it's all good...PEACE RIDE SAFE


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