Powdercoated Calipers and Now No Brake Pressure!
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Thread: Powdercoated Calipers and Now No Brake Pressure!

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    Default Powdercoated Calipers and Now No Brake Pressure!

    Hello, fellow M109R owners. I just recently powdercoated my front and rear calipers. I took the calipers totally apart by removing seals, pistons, nuts, bleeder valves. etc. The place I took them to sandblasted them and covered piston port holes, bleeder valve holes, etc. I put them back together with new Suzuki Brand seals and pistons and bolted them back up. I bled the system by the book, left caliper first, right caliper second, rear caliper kept an eye on the reservoirs to make sure it does not get empty, pressed the brake lever a few times, opened and closed nipples. I still have no pressure on the brake lever and when I looked at the front calipers while my friend pulled the brake lever, the pistons are not moving. Is there something I am not doing. ALSO, spoke to someone who stated that it is NOT good to powdercoat our calipers because the calipers in the front are aluminum and the oven baking heat warps the inside of the piston port. Anyone ever heard of this? Need advice and help.

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    Very Active Member dre319's Avatar
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    Default Powdercoated Calipers and Now No Brake Pressure!

    Well I just did the same thing as well and one of my seals has come loose when bleeding it. Ordered some new seals and going to put it back together again tomorrow so we shall see. Kind of the same boat ur in now but hopefully it all goes well.
    Keep ya posted.

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    Very Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Do you have extended risers with +2 or +3 brake lines? If so, you probably have air trapped in the loop in the brake line behind the headlight bucket. You will need to remove the bucket, and straighten the line out until you get the brakes bled. Either way, you are going to have a hard time getting them bled without a vacuums bleeder. Pick up a mighty vac or similar vacuum bleeder.

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    No, I have everything stock, except for braided lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    No, I have everything stock, except for braided lines.
    Air can still get trapped up at the "T" connector behind the headlight bucket. I would recommend a vacuum bleeder regardless. They are not that expensive.

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    Going to have to invest one tomorrow. By the way, on my post I wrote that someone said powder coating our calipers because of the aluminum material that it could have a negative effect on the piston slots, may get warped when calipers are drying in the oven, ever heard of that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    Going to have to invest one tomorrow. By the way, on my post I wrote that someone said powder coating our calipers because of the aluminum material that it could have a negative effect on the piston slots, may get warped when calipers are drying in the oven, ever heard of that?
    If they are warped, I would say they were baked at too high of a temperature. Powder coat is normally baked at 400 degrees. The minimum boiling point for DOT 3 brake fluid is 401 degrees. I really doubt the caliper would warp at the same exact temp the lowest rated brake fluid boils. Especially when DOT 4 is what is recommended for our bikes and it has a higher boiling point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    Going to have to invest one tomorrow. By the way, on my post I wrote that someone said powder coating our calipers because of the aluminum material that it could have a negative effect on the piston slots, may get warped when calipers are drying in the oven, ever heard of that?
    grab yourself 1 of these
    http://m.harborfreight.com/mityvac-v...not%20provided

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    Going to have to invest one tomorrow. By the way, on my post I wrote that someone said powder coating our calipers because of the aluminum material that it could have a negative effect on the piston slots, may get warped when calipers are drying in the oven, ever heard of that?
    Yes, there is a distinct possibility that the calipers will warp at the bake temp for powder coat. Otherwise they would probably never see that temp in service. Did they and is that what's causing your problem? I wouldn't think that yet.

    Brakes are best bled out the top. The bubbles naturally want to come up anyway and most vac bleeders can't pull the bubbles down faster than they want to go up.

    I don't use a vac. I make the master cylinder the highest thing in the system and pull the lever in and let it snap back out. That actually creates a slight vacuum on the top side that draws the bubbles into the master. With other bikes it's a little easier, you just put it on the sidestand and turn the bars to the left. With the 109 it's a little different because of the orientation of the bars. I had to unbolt the master and hold it up at and slight angle (lever end higher). As the lever starts to firm up, just don't pull it in as far/hard, more of a tickle. Once you get all the bubbles in the lines out the top there are some that collect in the calipers so those should be burped at the very last.

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    I just ordered a vacuum pump that hooks up to a air compressor and see if that would do the job. I will try the advice that was given to me. I was thinking of dismantling the caliper again and removing the pistons and seals and putting them back together again, just for piece of mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    I just ordered a vacuum pump that hooks up to a air compressor and see if that would do the job. I will try the advice that was given to me. I was thinking of dismantling the caliper again and removing the pistons and seals and putting them back together again, just for piece of mind.
    That wouldn't hurt so might as well. It doesn't take long to do it anyways.

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    So what ever happened to your calipers?


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    I took the front/rear calipers off and separated them. Lubricated the seals, pistons, and bores. Also, took the brake master cylinder off, clean the bore and purchased a new seal set. Figure I cover all bases. And I did purchase the MightyVac. Pump. I did noticed when I removed the original seal from the master cylinder that it had a tiny scuff mark. I bolted the calipers/master cylinder back on. I have not bled the system yet because here in N.Y.C. the weather has been cold and rainy. Weather is supposed to be 51 degrees tomorrow, so, I am going to try it. Also, letting everyone know I purchased a banjo bolt for our master cylinder that has a bleeder valve, that way when I bleed the master cylinder I will not open the banjo bolt, just the bleeder valve. I will keep you posted.

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    Very Active Member dre319's Avatar
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    The result?


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    Fellow M109R's, the end result, calipers were warped. I initially bled the brakes the old fashion way, the result- no pressure. Then I purchased the MightyVac, bled them properly, the result- no pressure. I then took the bike, riding in 1st-2nd gear to my friends home with my brother behind me in his vehicle with the hazards lights. My friend said let's try bleeding the brakes with a pneumatic brake bleeder hooked un to a air compressor, the result- no pressure. He had a pair of used M109R Tokico calipers, we removed my powdercoated calipers, bolted them the replacements on, bled them again with the compressed air and finally brake pressure. My friend stated that likely the calipers were baked for too long of a time and pretty much got damaged. What can you do, we live and learn. Sometimes it's best, "If it is broken, live it alone". Thanks everyone for the reply's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    "If it is broken, live it alone".
    I think it's, "if it isn't broken, leave it alone."

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    TRod, home with my 2 kids, off from school today, driving me crazy! Thanks for the correction! LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhome41 View Post
    Fellow M109R's, the end result, calipers were warped. I initially bled the brakes the old fashion way, the result- no pressure. Then I purchased the MightyVac, bled them properly, the result- no pressure. I then took the bike, riding in 1st-2nd gear to my friends home with my brother behind me in his vehicle with the hazards lights. My friend said let's try bleeding the brakes with a pneumatic brake bleeder hooked un to a air compressor, the result- no pressure. He had a pair of used M109R Tokico calipers, we removed my powdercoated calipers, bolted them the replacements on, bled them again with the compressed air and finally brake pressure. My friend stated that likely the calipers were baked for too long of a time and pretty much got damaged. What can you do, we live and learn. Sometimes it's best, "If it is broken, live it alone". Thanks everyone for the reply's.
    I am not mechanic nor experienced biker, still would like the clarification on warped calipers. How would the warping cause 'no pressure' at the lever?
    Wouldn't it cause something like a leak of brake fluid at the calipers? In my amateur theory it seems like there is something plugging it and causing air lock
    causing no pressure at the lever... Am I missing something? Thanks Viliam
    Last edited by thevili; 02-17-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    I am not mechanic nor experience biker, still would like the clarification on warped calipers. How would the warping cause 'no pressure' at the lever?
    Wouldn't it cause something like a leak of brake fluid at the calipers? In my amateur theory it seems like there is something plugging it and causing air lock
    causing no pressure at the lever... Am I missing something? Thanks Viliam
    If the bores had become substantially out of round, the pistons would not move out so no pressure would build. I dunno if that's the problem. It's just a guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    If the bores had become substantially out of round, the pistons would not move out so no pressure would build. I dunno if that's the problem. It's just a guess.
    But wouldn't it leak?? Still not sure what OP means by "no pressure"....
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    But wouldn't it leak?? Still not sure what OP means by "no pressure"....
    Maybe, maybe not. The bores could be out of round and it still not leak. But, the pistons could be so tight that they won't move out. If the won't move out, it can't build pressure because it's not pressing against the disc.

    Personally, I don't think that's the issue. I've done a lot of brakes and calipers with new seals can be a bear sometimes. I think he had air in the master cylinder still. It's kinda hard to get out unless you allow it to come out the top or bleed it at the banjo bolt at the master.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. The bores could be out of round and it still not leak. But, the pistons could be so tight that they won't move out. If the won't move out, it can't build pressure because it's not pressing against the disc.

    Personally, I don't think that's the issue. I've done a lot of brakes and calipers with new seals can be a bear sometimes. I think he had air in the master cylinder still. It's kinda hard to get out unless you allow it to come out the top or bleed it at the banjo bolt at the master.
    Aha,.. no pressure against the pads, ... I was going by Cyberhome41 words: "...I still have no pressure on the brake lever..." in his original post...
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    Aha,.. no pressure against the pads, ... I was going by Cyberhome41 words: "...I still have no pressure on the brake lever..." in his original post...
    If the pads aren't pushing against anything, the lever will never have pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    If the pads aren't pushing against anything, the lever will never have pressure.
    Even when calipers are for example seized, and fluid has nowhere to go??
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    If the pads aren't pushing against anything, the lever will never have pressure.
    Agreed


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