Installed my new PowerPro soo much better

[TTransport]

So I haven't done my intake yet, but I installed a set of Freedom Performance Curves a few weeks ago and even with my ATRE the bike was running rough. After my trip to Sturgis I couldn't take the jerkiness any longer. I loved the exhaust so I bit the bullet and picked up the new Cobra Power Pro. Just took it for a quick spin around the neighborhood and it is soo smooth. What a great investment.

[Big-B]

[weasel848]

really? that big of a difference? could you explain in what ways it runs smoother to you? throttle response? the motor itself runs smoother? was it as easy as they say to just "plug and play?"

tks,
E.

[gottattooz]

really? that big of a difference? could you explain in what ways it runs smoother to you? throttle response? the motor itself runs smoother? was it as easy as they say to just "plug and play?"

tks,
E.

The Cobra PowrPro sounds like a mythical entity when people say it has better throttle response, smoother power AND better fuel mileage, but it's all true (in my experience). My mileage went from 32-36 mpg to 36-42 mpg, and it pulls like a freight train. The only pain about the install is getting to the fuel injectors. I pulled the tank and airbox, because I had a PCIII and it was all tangled up below the airbox. The results were well worth it.

-Josh

[Latinrascal]

really? that big of a difference? could you explain in what ways it runs smoother to you? throttle response? the motor itself runs smoother? was it as easy as they say to just "plug and play?"

tks,
E.

Do your research on this unit. I'm not trying to bad mouth it but it needs to be said. Per Cobra reps this unit does absolutely nothing to the bike unless you are on the throttle accelerating, the "freight train pull" is the result. But at idle and when cruising the power pro goes into sleep mode and the bike is then solely dependent on the stock ecm fuel mapping which puts the bike into a lean condition, better gas mileage but bad for motor. Us older members that have been with this bike since its been on the market ALWAYS recommend to the new members that's its a must to get a fuel tuner if you change both your intake and exhaust, why? Because without a fuel tuner your motor is too lean!

My opinion is all the good stuff people feel is a placebo effect, we put it on and run through the gears and it pulls so much harder and we are happy. We see better fuel economy which in part is because of a better tune when accelerating and in part because of the lean condition while cruising and we think, "hey this thing is the cats nips!" But what we don't see we start to feel after all the "cracking the throttle" hype is over and we get back to leisurely cruising and really start paying attention to how its running and many people who have bought into this product then realize something is not right. Enter stage left power pro version 1.2 that has a "tuning pod" now installed on the mother board! Why? To correct the lean condition at idle and cruising!

Please let's not turn this into a bash thread, as this is/was not my intentions for posting. I said it before I am for this product pulling through but I also want it done right! The pod addition is a good fix but then its not an "autotune" device any longer! If they chould just add a small memory to store best base map then it will be an "autotune" but it seems like that's not possible!

[antmor69]

Do your research on this unit. I'm not trying to bad mouth it but it needs to be said. Per Cobra reps this unit does absolutely nothing to the bike unless you are on the throttle accelerating, the "freight train pull" is the result. But at idle and when cruising the power pro goes into sleep mode and the bike is then solely dependent on the stock ecm fuel mapping which puts the bike into a lean condition, better gas mileage but bad for motor. Us older members that have been with this bike since its been on the market ALWAYS recommend to the new members that's its a must to get a fuel tuner if you change both your intake and exhaust, why? Because without a fuel tuner your motor is too lean!

My opinion is all the good stuff people feel is a placebo effect, we put it on and run through the gears and it pulls so much harder and we are happy. We see better fuel economy which in part is because of a better tune when accelerating and in part because of the lean condition while cruising and we think, "hey this thing is the cats nips!" But what we don't see we start to feel after all the "cracking the throttle" hype is over and we get back to leisurely cruising and really start paying attention to how its running and many people who have bought into this product then realize something is not right. Enter stage left power pro version 1.2 that has a "tuning pod" now installed on the mother board! Why? To correct the lean condition at idle and cruising!

Please let's not turn this into a bash thread, as this is/was not my intentions for posting. I said it before I am for this product pulling through but I also want it done right! The pod addition is a good fix but then its not an "autotune" device any longer! If they chould just add a small memory to store best base map then it will be an "autotune" but it seems like that's not possible!

So, IYO how long will it take to damage the motor? My PowerPro has 12,000 miles on it with the original board and my bike shows no signs of any ill effects of this so called lean condition.

[Latinrascal]

So, IYO how long will it take to damage the motor? My PowerPro has 12,000 miles on it with the original board and my bike shows no signs of any ill effects of this so called lean condition.

That I don't know but there are a few members that are starting to do some further engine diagnostics to see if what I think is happening holds true. Many many members have testified over the years how their bikes were on the leaner side from factory to start with and many have stated they were good. This could be from being at different ends of the tolerance spectrum from various parts batch runs for sensors, all within spec just at opposite ends of tolerance Target. Add to that what intake and exhaust you are running and even the type of gas you run can "enhance" this lean condition. Also how you ride is a big factor here, I.e. if you run alot of twisties where your constantly on the throttle I feel you will get much better performance out of the PP. If you run a lot of freeway roads where you lock your throttle on cruise at the same rpm well this is where I fear the most damage can/will/does occur! Now please don't take this as I'm trying to be a know it all, I'm just trying to gather info and make sense of this issue so maybe it can be corrected and maybe save someone from trashing their motor. This is all my opinion-theory!

[Turboman]

That I don't know but there are a few members that are starting to do some further engine diagnostics to see if what I think is happening holds true. Many many members have testified over the years how their bikes were on the leaner side from factory to start with and many have stated they were good. This could be from being at different ends of the tolerance spectrum from various parts batch runs for sensors, all within spec just at opposite ends of tolerance Target. Add to that what intake and exhaust you are running and even the type of gas you run can "enhance" this lean condition. Also how you ride is a big factor here, I.e. if you run alot of twisties where your constantly on the throttle I feel you will get much better performance out of the PP. If you run a lot of freeway roads where you lock your throttle on cruise at the same rpm well this is where I fear the most damage can/will/does occur! Now please don't take this as I'm trying to be a know it all, I'm just trying to gather info and make sense of this issue so maybe it can be corrected and maybe save someone from trashing their motor. This is all my opinion-theory!

I'm sorry; but if you are not a politician then you missed your calling! All I've read is a bunch of fancy words and BS with no REAL data or facts to back any of it up! Destroying a motor because it is running a bit lean That's pushing it!

If there are no actual FACTS to back up your statements than why bother with the sermon?

[Todds9]

Well because I like to stir the pot I better jump into this conversation. ANY fuel management system will make your bike run smoother! (after just changing pipes) I have had them all on mine and IMO there is not one that stands out above the others. Check the dyno numbers with each, not any real difference!

[antmor69]

That I don't know but there are a few members that are starting to do some further engine diagnostics to see if what I think is happening holds true. Many many members have testified over the years how their bikes were on the leaner side from factory to start with and many have stated they were good. This could be from being at different ends of the tolerance spectrum from various parts batch runs for sensors, all within spec just at opposite ends of tolerance Target. Add to that what intake and exhaust you are running and even the type of gas you run can "enhance" this lean condition. Also how you ride is a big factor here, I.e. if you run alot of twisties where your constantly on the throttle I feel you will get much better performance out of the PP. If you run a lot of freeway roads where you lock your throttle on cruise at the same rpm well this is where I fear the most damage can/will/does occur! Now please don't take this as I'm trying to be a know it all, I'm just trying to gather info and make sense of this issue so maybe it can be corrected and maybe save someone from trashing their motor. This is all my opinion-theory!

My bike has 27,000 miles on it and I bought it just over 2 years ago new. I'd say my riding is split down the middle. I have to ride at least an hour to hook up with other 9ers so I do a lot of highway riding but I definitely ride twisties aggressively when I can.

[Duende01]

I don't know if this is good or bad timing. Just when I really thought that I had made my mind up about buying this unit.

[Big-B]

Rick, are you running a tuner and if so which one?

IMO if the bike was too lean under constant throttle like on the highway, you would notice, just like we did w/ the faulty board. That being said, I wouldn't see it being any more lean then if you're riding a stock bike w/ no mods at all. The only real way to tell would to be able to have a/f ratio monitoring while riding. That would require an O2 sensor and gauge to monitor it. I doubt anyone will invest in that just to see. As far as I'm concerned, I have no worries about any ill affect my bike MAY be getting from the tuning, or lack there of at times of the PP. Obviously the addition of the pod on the new board has taken care of the lean condition at just off idle under cruise. Some have had to adjust it, it seems most have not from what's being posted. As Anthony stated, as well as others have, they have an original unit that have been on the bike for thousands of miles w/ no issues. Explain that, I certainly can't. I honestly don't see what everyone is making such a big deal over it for. The unit works, w/ good results.

Looks like this will always be one of those controversial topics.

[Latinrascal]

Rick, are you running a tuner and if so which one?

IMO if the bike was too lean under constant throttle like on the highway, you would notice, just like we did w/ the faulty board. That being said, I wouldn't see it being any more lean then if you're riding a stock bike w/ no mods at all. The only real way to tell would to be able to have a/f ratio monitoring while riding. That would require an O2 sensor and gauge to monitor it. I doubt anyone will invest in that just to see. As far as I'm concerned, I have no worries about any ill affect my bike MAY be getting from the tuning, or lack there of at times of the PP. Obviously the addition of the pod on the new board has taken care of the lean condition at just off idle under cruise. Some have had to adjust it, it seems most have not from what's being posted. As Anthony stated, as well as others have, they have an original unit that have been on the bike for thousands of miles w/ no issues. Explain that, I certainly can't. I honestly don't see what everyone is making such a big deal over it for. The unit works, w/ good results.

Looks like this will always be one of those controversial topics.

B, your bike will run leaner then a stock bike once you change your intake/exhaust setup correct? Which makes it run lean or rich depending on bike and setup which is why we go through the trouble of buying a turner in the first place. If the PP is "sleeping" then its not tuning, if its not tuning then your running stock map which we already know is way lean on this bike when you change intake/exhaust! Why everyone doesn't have this same effect, my best answer is tolerance specs from bike to bike, gas used, and a few other things can effect this situation even what intake/exhaust setup your running is my best guess. Your bike now runs good after the addition of the pod but clearly wasn't before then! I'm just saying if you listen to what we advise new members and listen to Cobra on bow it works then you see how the units without the pods could be damaging the bikes. Maybe its not causing too much damage but the senerio is setup for it to happen if your running one without the pod adjustment.

I'm currently running a pc3 but was hoping to upgrade to the powerpro which I still hope to do.

[Big-B]

B, your bike will run leaner then a stock bike once you change your intake/exhaust setup correct? Which makes it run lean or rich depending on bike and setup which is why we go through the trouble of buying a turner in the first place. If the PP is "sleeping" then its not tuning, if its not tuning then your running stock map which we already know is way lean on this bike when you change intake/exhaust! Why everyone doesn't have this same effect, my best answer is tolerance specs from bike to bike, gas used, and a few other things can effect this situation even what intake/exhaust setup your running is my best guess. Your bike now runs good after the addition of the pod but clearly wasn't before then! I'm just saying if you listen to what we advise new members and listen to Cobra on bow it works then you see how the units without the pods could be damaging the bikes. Maybe its not causing too much damage but the senerio is setup for it to happen if your running one without the pod adjustment.

I'm currently running a pc3 but was hoping to upgrade to the powerpro which I still hope to do.

Good point made, however, where does the premiss come from that the tuner is only active on accel? This must be some info I have missed somewhere. Not everyone needs scientific data to know something works, only that it does. Like I stated above, the only way to do this is to be able to monitor the A/F while riding the bike. Maybe someone will have the time and money to do it, but until then it's only speculation that there is a problem. This can be debated all day long, but the bottom line will be for someone that doesn't own one is, will I buy it based on actual owners riding experience, (what I based my purchase on) or not because there's not enough physical data to prove it does what it states. That will be the decision of what prospective buyers will need to do. IMO, there are far more defects built into this bike by Suzuki, then what any aftermarket company have done thus far.

[Latinrascal]

Good point made, however, where does the premiss come from that the tuner is only active on accel? This must be some info I have missed somewhere. Not everyone needs scientific data to know something works, only that it does. Like I stated above, the only way to do this is to be able to monitor the A/F while riding the bike. Maybe someone will have the time and money to do it, but until then it's only speculation that there is a problem. This can be debated all day long, but the bottom line will be for someone that doesn't own one is, will I buy it based on actual owners riding experience, (what I based my purchase on) or not because there's not enough physical data to prove it does what it states. That will be the decision of what prospective buyers will need to do. IMO, there are far more defects built into this bike by Suzuki, then what any aftermarket company have done thus far.

The info on the Cobra about when it is tuning and when it is sleeping has came directly from the horses mouth at Cobra although I have received a few different answers that didn't jive but it seems now this is the answer they are giving on how it works. Sorry I don't recall whom I spoke with but nevertheless it is what I was told.

[Big-B]

This is from Cobra's site, and how I interpret it. I realize everyone's interpretation is different.

"With PowrPro you can say good-bye to old-school EFI "mapping mania" and O2 sensor hassles forever. When your bike accelerates, PowrPro reads the engine's performance up to 80 times per second to optimize fuel delivery at all throttle openings under acceleration, under every kind of load and under all existing environmental conditions to deliver maximum acceleration."


To me, that includes just off idle throttle to maintain cruise speed. So in my opinion/interpretation, it's tuning while you're cruising.

[Latinrascal]

This is from Cobra's site, and how I interpret it. I realize everyone's interpretation is different.

"With PowrPro you can say good-bye to old-school EFI "mapping mania" and O2 sensor hassles forever. When your bike accelerates, PowrPro reads the engine's performance up to 80 times per second to optimize fuel delivery at all throttle openings under acceleration, under every kind of load and under all existing environmental conditions to deliver maximum acceleration."


To me, that includes just off idle throttle to maintain cruise speed. So in my opinion/interpretation, it's tuning while you're cruising.

I read something to this effect to them and was explained how I stated above. I think it was Trod that had his bike dynoed and the air/fuel curve was way off In this area if I'm not mistaken which confirms what you state about having the sniffer in the pipe to know for sure and this has been the closet to what you state as an a way to decipher the info.

[Duende01]

Could the answer to your question be within this statement?; "at all throttle openings under acceleration". So the question might be, when you are at a constant speed or cruising, would that be considered "under acceleration"?

[Big-B]

Could the answer to your question be within this statement?; "at all throttle openings under acceleration". So the question might be, when you are at a constant speed or cruising, would that be considered "under acceleration"?

IMO, yes! As I stated above.

[Duende01]

IMO, yes! As I stated above.

But technically that is not correct since by definition to accelate means to rapidly change the rate of velocity. So, in essence as Latin stated the unit might really be on "sleep mode" during cruising at constant speeds.

Accelaration: the rate of change of velocity with respect to time; broadly: change of velocity.

[Big-B]

But technically that is not correct since by definition to accelate means to rapidly change the rate of velocity. So, in essence as Latin stated the unit might really be on "sleep mode" during cruising at constant speeds.

Accelaration: the rate of change of velocity with respect to time; broadly: change of velocity.

Sooooo, if you know the answer, why ask? At this rate, the next new gadget will be out before you make a decision on something. Adrian do you do this before buying everything? I understand it's a lot of money, and you want to be sure. Not sure how much more data you need to make a decision. Again, it's all in someone's interprtation. That's different for everyone.

[Duende01]

Sooooo, if you know the answer, why ask? At this rate, the next new gadget will be out before you make a decision on something. Adrian do you do this before buying everything? I understand it's a lot of money, and you want to be sure. Not sure how much more data you need to make a decision. Again, it's all in someone's interprtation. That's different for everyone.

Well, I know what acceleration is and I knew your opinion, however, I don't know what Cobra's interpretation of acceleration is and that's why I asked. Additionally, I wouldn't say "a lot of money" just about a day worth of work, but that's besides the point. I do however try to do my research before making any purchases. I tend not to buy on impulse. I also try not to be the first one to have the latest thing on the market, as often times those end up being the "guinea pigs" and the ones that have the most issues.

Don't get me wrong, I truly want to give this thing a try. As of this morning I had this unit placed in the shopping cart and ready for purchase. However, every time I feel as I have been sold, another legitimate question pops up.

[Latinrascal]

Could the answer to your question be within this statement?; "at all throttle openings under acceleration". So the question might be, when you are at a constant speed or cruising, would that be considered "under acceleration"?

The same question posed to cobra reps and their definition or I should say the majority consensus from the different cobra tech guys I spoke with is Acceleration is considered the time when traveling at set speed trying to increase your forward travel to a higher speed. When you stop throttle input the pp loses one of the input factors needed to calculate the equation, which is the pulses per fi length by increase in power something or anothqer quantum physics, LOL, some of the tech talk got way over my head but when put to plain English, when your at a constant rpm input it goes to sleep reverting to the stock ecm map!

[Big-B]

Well, I know what acceleration is and I knew your opinion, however, I don't know what Cobra's interpretation of acceleration is and that's why I asked. Additionally, I wouldn't say "a lot of money" just about a day worth of work, but that's besides the point. I do however try to do my research before making any purchases. I tend not to buy on impulse. I also try not to be the first one to have the latest thing on the market, as often times those end up being the "guinea pigs" and the ones that have the most issues.

Don't get me wrong, I truly want to give this thing a try. As of this morning I had this unit placed in the shopping cart and ready for purchase. However, every time I feel as I have been sold, another legitimate question pops up.

The same question posed to cobra reps and their definition or I should say the majority consensus from the different cobra tech guys I spoke with is Acceleration is considered the time when traveling at set speed trying to increase your forward travel to a higher speed. When you stop throttle input the pp loses one of the input factors needed to calculate the equation, which is the pulses per fi length by increase in power something or anothqer quantum physics, LOL, some of the tech talk got way over my head but when put to plain English, when your at a constant rpm input it goes to sleep reverting to the stock ecm map!

It's a shame every one of these threads turns into exaclty what this one has. IMO, if you have so much doubt, look elsewhere. This unit is probably not for you. Bottom line, it works, regardless of how.
This is nothing more then

[antmor69]

It's a shame every one of these threads turns into exaclty what this one has. IMO, if you have so much doubt, look elsewhere. This unit is probably not for you. Bottom line, it works, regardless of how.
This is nothing more then

I AGREE WITH BIG-B!!

[hunt1moore]

Is it too late for the popcorn?

For what it's worth, I really like my PP. No problems since installing and I did replace a custom dyno tuned PC-III with it. I just wish I had the opportunity to do it before I spent all that on dyno-tuning.

[Latinrascal]

It's a shame every one of these threads turns into exaclty what this one has. IMO, if you have so much doubt, look elsewhere. This unit is probably not for you. Bottom line, it works, regardless of how.
This is nothing more then

You know I agree, it is Shame how this thread will turn out! As for beating a dead horse, I don't see how you can say this because you are proof that these units are not dependable at best in original form. You my friend no longer belong to that group of people. Yours is version 1.2 which resolves the situation at hand IMO but by doing so it can't be described as an autotune! We are not talking about cobra not standing behind their product because they clearly seem to be working with the members who have called with problem.

[Big-B]

You know I agree, it is Shame how this thread will turn out! As for beating a dead horse, I don't see how you can say this because you are proof that these units are not dependable at best in original form. You my friend no longer belong to that group of people. Yours is version 1.2 which resolves the situation at hand IMO but by doing so it can't be described as an autotune! We are not talking about cobra not standing behind their product because they clearly seem to be working with the members who have called with problem.

It's all good ma brotha, we'll just agree to disagree.

[bulle109]

Just for the record, I was one of the guys that was on the fence with this product. I have since purchased a PP. I will tell you this, the first couple of rides with it I never noticed much of a difference in performance and my fuel mileage dropped to about 30 mpg I did run it up through the RPM range a few times as I have read some of the members recomended doing this in a couple of other threads. The last two rides were unbelievable, I thought this bike was strong stock. Well trust me when I say this thing is pulling like a freight train and this is no placebo effect. I know my bike, I am the one that put 28,000 miles on it and it has never pulled this hard before. What an awesome rush and puts a smile on my face every time I roll on the throttle. I do not know if mine will be one of the ones that has no issues ( I hope so) but if I do have issues I will deal with it when and if I have to. Like Bernie says Suzuki designed a lot more defects into this bike than I will probably ever get from the PP, such as. Marshmellows for front motor mount bushings (replaced) oil puking because of poor crankcase venting design (have to install catch can) Sloppy tranny that hates to go into first gear and we have to short shift to second so it doesn't sound like it is going to pile up, shall I go on. The fact is a lot of us bought this machine even knowing the quirks that it has and we have learned to deal with them or to fix them because there is no other bike on the road in its class that will give us what we were all looking for, unique look, sportbike like performance and handling, Phat azz rear tire and for a change did not look like a Harley, Honda or Yamaha. So you guys that are on the fence and especially the guy that says he can make enough in a day to pay for the PP, take a chance like you did on the 9 and lay down your mula for this unit. As far as I am concerned even if it flew to hell tomorrow it was well worth the 500.00 just to ride it the last couple of days (awesome man). Also the last two rides I averaged 40 mpg

Ride safe Brothers, especially if you have a PP LOL

[Rambo1985]

Good info