Is Non-Ethanol Unleaded Gas better?
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Thread: Is Non-Ethanol Unleaded Gas better?

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    Very Active Member FL '07 LE's Avatar
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    Default Is Non-Ethanol Unleaded Gas better?

    Hey Guys, is Non-Ethanol Gas any better? Have any of you tried it in a M 109? I have some old timer buddies that collect antique classic cars and they told me about a local Citgo gas station that sells Non ethanol fuel (thats what they run in their cars). So I decided to try a tank full today. It only comes 91 Octane but I did add an 1 1/2 ounce of Octane booster. Bike ran pretty good. I'm just wondering what you think about it and if any of you have tried it in any of your vehicles?.

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    Radio Active Member Zoom's Avatar
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    Not having ethanol is always better. Ethanol is hard on all the rubber components in the fuel system, makes fuel degrade faster, and reduces both power and fuel mileage. I'd never buy it if I had a choice.

    You might try the 91 octane as it is and see how the bike does. They are supposed to run on 91 octane, though most use 93 octane since 91 isn't available.


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    Very Active Member BAD BOY M109R's Avatar
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    I try to always run non ethanol .... runs great...
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    Very Active Member BAD BOY M109R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    Not having ethanol is always better. Ethanol is hard on all the rubber components in the fuel system, makes fuel degrade faster, and reduces both power and fuel mileage. I'd never buy it if I had a choice.

    You might try the 91 octane as it is and see how the bike does. They are supposed to run on 91 octane, though most use 93 octane since 91 isn't available.
    Here we do not have 93 octane highest is 91....
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    Very Active Member FL '07 LE's Avatar
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    Yeah 91 is supposed to be good enough. I just wanted to raise the octane points a little. It is supposed to be better on the seals like you say and I read better gas mile-age too....They Say . Gas station not too far from where I live and alot of people run this Non Ethanol. Of course I will be gassing up at regular stations now and then but if this is better I'm glad to have this option if its better.

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    Very Active Member BAD BOY M109R's Avatar
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    Ethanol definitely sucks. It goes bad fast. And cloggs cramp up.
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    Very Active Member Rider 4 Life's Avatar
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    Ethanol SUCKS! That should answer your question.
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    Active Member pabohoney1's Avatar
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    Octane boosters are pretty much worthless. You'd get better results out of using race fuel dollar for dollar. And besides that if you are using higher than 90 or 91 you're probably decreasing fuel economy and performance. Octane rating does not equal power. Unless of course your bike is knocking or pinging due to premature detonation, but I'd doubt that. Here in the US, 90 is what is recommended by the service manual.

    Oh, and yes, ethanol sucks, unless you're a corn farmer...

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    i am not a corn farmer let me say that first. I use ethanol in everything i own. from weed eaters to motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc. I have never had a problem with any of them at all using ethanol. i have 2 cars with over 200000 miles on them never seen anything but ethanol. if you do the math 89 which is just under 10% ethanol is actually rated at 111 octane believe it or not and will dyno better than 93. you do however lose a little mileage same as any higher octane fuel. more power less mileage.

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    Active Member pabohoney1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper109R View Post
    i am not a corn farmer let me say that first. I use ethanol in everything i own. from weed eaters to motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc. I have never had a problem with any of them at all using ethanol. i have 2 cars with over 200000 miles on them never seen anything but ethanol. if you do the math 89 which is just under 10% ethanol is actually rated at 111 octane believe it or not and will dyno better than 93. you do however lose a little mileage same as any higher octane fuel. more power less mileage.
    10% ethanol blend fuel (E10) is not 111 octane. Pure ethanol yes. E10's octane rating is what is listed on the pump. E10 also yields ~3% reduction in fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy than the same volume of pure gasoline.

    Personally, I don't run it because its a waste of money IMO. Like Viper has experienced though, it probably won't have any substantial negative effect over the lifetime of a vehicle.

    Food for thought:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
    "Fuels of different octane ratings may have similar densities, but because switching to a higher octane fuel does not add more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot develop more power."

    http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline...hanol_E10.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by pabohoney1 View Post
    10% ethanol blend fuel (E10) is not 111 octane. Pure ethanol yes. E10's octane rating is what is listed on the pump. E10 also yields ~3% reduction in fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy than the same volume of pure gasoline.

    Personally, I don't run it because its a waste of money IMO. Like Viper has experienced though, it probably won't have any substantial negative effect over the lifetime of a vehicle.

    Food for thought:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
    "Fuels of different octane ratings may have similar densities, but because switching to a higher octane fuel does not add more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot develop more power."

    http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline...hanol_E10.html
    you are correct i got messed up was thinking e85 which is like 110 octane. actual ethanol in 89 octane is less than 10%.

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    Very Active Member bryan67's Avatar
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    Default ethanol has its advantages

    I run E 85 in my race car, and will be trying to switch my GSXR over to it also as i get it set up for a turbo. When using it in boosted engines It has a wide range of benifits. From the octane rating, to its cooling principles during atomization, all depends on the usage.

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    Very Active Member Nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pabohoney1 View Post
    10% ethanol blend fuel (E10) is not 111 octane. Pure ethanol yes. E10's octane rating is what is listed on the pump. E10 also yields ~3% reduction in fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy than the same volume of pure gasoline.

    Personally, I don't run it because its a waste of money IMO. Like Viper has experienced though, it probably won't have any substantial negative effect over the lifetime of a vehicle.

    Food for thought:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
    "Fuels of different octane ratings may have similar densities, but because switching to a higher octane fuel does not add more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot develop more power."

    http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline...hanol_E10.html
    BTU's I have seen it compared too. They say it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol crap to make the same btus as 1 gallon of real gas, thus the chitty milage....
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    Very Active Member Flanker's Avatar
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    Quite a few stations (in not most of 'em) back home sell the 10% ethanol variety of gas. I'd have to do some research to see if any local gasoline vendors sell "gasoline" gasoline. Never had any problem in any vehicles or gas poered equipment due to ethanol blends though.

    Whoever said ethanol blends are best for the corn farmers, is right on! We need to stop ALL subsidies for everything.
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    Very Active Member rnspark's Avatar
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    Default ethanol

    Generally speaking I use 89 with a spoonful of marvel oil, are you guys who are running ethanol free saying that the bike runs smoother. I am not to concerned about performance to much, sometimes it just sounds a bit rough

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    Very Active Member g9r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAD BOY M109R View Post
    Ethanol definitely sucks. It goes bad fast. And cloggs cramp up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rider 4 Life View Post
    Ethanol SUCKS! That should answer your question.
    I fill up with 100% gasoline in town at every opportunity. IMO Ethanol should be removed from our automotive gasoline, though from what I read in another post they are trying to up the limit from 10% to 15%

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    ok so i am on my first tank of ethanol in my 109 and i have to say i am dissapointed. It seems like i have some top end noise i didnt have before. i assume this is ping.? I also just put my Atre on this afternoon and rode to work tonight. that is when i noticed the little extra noise on the top end. I think i will add some octane boost to the fuel to see if it gets rid of the ping.

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    Radio Active Member Zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper109R View Post
    ok so i am on my first tank of ethanol in my 109 and i have to say i am dissapointed. It seems like i have some top end noise i didnt have before. i assume this is ping.? I also just put my Atre on this afternoon and rode to work tonight. that is when i noticed the little extra noise on the top end. I think i will add some octane boost to the fuel to see if it gets rid of the ping.
    If you hear the noise under acceleration it's probably pinging. Mine will do it if I don't run 93 octane in it, and it does it worse with an ATRE in the lower gears since the timing is more advanced.


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    so if i add some octane boost do you think it would help me get through this tank of fuel?

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    Very Active Member jimmy450r's Avatar
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    a lot of the octane booster sold is just "snake oil"
    if it comes in a plastic bottle it's probably not doing anything but giving you a false sense of security

    I try to find the highest octane non-ethanol fuel for my truck and 9
    this is likely how several riders can get close to 200 miles out of a tank while others are on fumes at 150

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    Very Active Member BAD BOY M109R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper109R View Post
    so if i add some octane boost do you think it would help me get through this tank of fuel?
    Yea it will help.
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    Very Active Member Schmoof's Avatar
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    Ethanol is mixed into our gasoline because they have to find something to do with all that subsidized corn. I wouldn't put it in any of my vehicles but unfortunately in these parts there is no choice.

    Henry Ford designed his first cars to run on it... then came prohibition... which ended shortly after he started producing engines that ran on gasoline... coincidence? Just food for thought...

    "There's enough alcohol in one year's yeild of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for one hundred years." - Henry Ford

    Another interesting thing is that the Diesel engine was also designed to be run on "vegetable oil" and was then converted to run off fossil fuels.

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    Very Active Member Robert May's Avatar
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    Octane booster is snake oil. You will never get a perfect blend by just dumping it in and you may get 1 half of point in actual boost if any. The stuff leaves nasty little fluffy deposits on your valves and plugs.

    As far as ethanol. I hate it. If left in any small engine over a period of time it will leave deposits in the carb and break down rubber seals. If you properly store or prep things for storage or even use a fuel stabilizer you will usually be fine.

    What I have found is that most places that do advertise ethanol free gas only have it in 87 octane. Their 89 and 93 have it no matter what. My Uncle that ran the Hess terminal up in Maryland for years swears you get ethanol in everything and only marine rated fuel is ethanol free. So whatever lol!!!

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    Very Active Member FL '07 LE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert May View Post
    Octane booster is snake oil. You will never get a perfect blend by just dumping it in and you may get 1 half of point in actual boost if any. The stuff leaves nasty little fluffy deposits on your valves and plugs.

    As far as ethanol. I hate it. If left in any small engine over a period of time it will leave deposits in the carb and break down rubber seals. If you properly store or prep things for storage or even use a fuel stabilizer you will usually be fine.

    What I have found is that most places that do advertise ethanol free gas only have it in 87 octane. Their 89 and 93 have it no matter what. My Uncle that ran the Hess terminal up in Maryland for years swears you get ethanol in everything and only marine rated fuel is ethanol free. So whatever lol!!!
    The Citgo here in Orlando that has this Ethanol-Free Gas it does say on the pump, "Marine Fuel 100% Gasoline" and it is 91 Octane. From what I remember it was $4.20 per gallon and Premium Unleaded 93 Octane in my area is like $3.90 a gallon.

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    I feel fortunate. here in Oklahoma most of the stations go out of their way to advertise they have 100% gasoline, no ethanol. I even have one station near me that still manages to sell 93, even though most Sinclair's went to 91 some years ago.

    Myself I will never ever run ethanol fuel in my vehicles. Tried it once in the 109, and it SUCKED. Never ran right that whole entire tankful. And that was with the bikes stock exhaust and stock tuning still intact. SUCKED. NEVER AGAIN!

    Stay away from octane boosters, expecially if they are in plastic. WORTHLESS. Best bet is to find a station that sells race gas, and mix that instead. Will be cheaper than the snake oil as well. The canned boosters, you'll be lucky to go from 91 to 91.5. But if you mixed one gallon of 110 in with four gallons of 91, you'd have 94.8 octane. And that one gallon of 110 would cost you around $7.50 here, where most of the canned junk goes for more than that. I keep a five gallon can of Sunoco 110 in the garage, with a bit of fuel stabilizer in it for longetivity. If a vehicle starts pinging, in the tank goes some of the "good stuff". Since my pickemuptruck is blown, it helps to keep some of that around. Blown engines are unforgiving of ping or detonation.
    Last edited by cbxer55; 05-09-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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    Very Active Member hunt1moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper109R View Post
    i am not a corn farmer let me say that first. I use ethanol in everything i own. from weed eaters to motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc. I have never had a problem with any of them at all using ethanol. i have 2 cars with over 200000 miles on them never seen anything but ethanol. if you do the math 89 which is just under 10% ethanol is actually rated at 111 octane believe it or not and will dyno better than 93. you do however lose a little mileage same as any higher octane fuel. more power less mileage.
    I've had my rants about this a few time on here. All I can say is that I could buy a lot of gas with what I spent on ethanol related engine failures.

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    Very Active Member antmor69's Avatar
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    I have no choice. No pure gas stations anywhere near me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt1moore View Post
    I've had my rants about this a few time on here. All I can say is that I could buy a lot of gas with what I spent on ethanol related engine failures.
    I havent had troubles in cars with it. But the 109 hates it. I even went so far as to suck most of it out. The 9 hates ethanol. period.

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    Very Active Member Schmoof's Avatar
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    There is nothing but Ethanol where I live and my 9 and all the other bikes I've had before this run just fine...

    I'm not saying that it wouldn't run even better with straight gas, but my 9 runs great and is giving me about 40mpg as well. I don't like Ethanol in our gas, but I don't have a choice around here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmoof View Post
    There is nothing but Ethanol where I live and my 9 and all the other bikes I've had before this run just fine...

    I'm not saying that it wouldn't run even better with straight gas, but my 9 runs great and is giving me about 40mpg as well. I don't like Ethanol in our gas, but I don't have a choice around here.
    your not getting any ping under load using the 89? wonder if its just my atre messing stuff up

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