Ethanol or no Ethanol, that is the question.

[silveradols]

The gas stations in my area all have 10% ethanol mixture in their gas, except for a few who have non-ethanol in the lowest octane rating fuel. I'm just wondering what I'm gonna do if they increase the ethanol percentage, because my manual says no more than 10% ethanol. Does anybody have any ideas?

[g9r]

While at the Suzuki dealer today dropping off my 9 to have my new E3 250 put on, I over heard them talking to a guy about fuel. He had actually brought in a lawn mower to have work done on it and had told them he only used pure gasoline in it, no ethanol. They had the fuel tested and even though the gas station has been selling it as 100% gasoline, it had ethanol in it and water. So, that makes me wonder how many gas stations that advertise 100% gasoline are really selling 100%? I think this whole ethanol deal is a crock anyway and just makes others more $$ while giving us a lesser product.

[BAD BOY M109R]

Most stations around me have no alcohol in their premium gas, because they don't sell as much of it, in the alcohol goes bad quickly.. so saying no to ethanol is
my rule!

[lostrider]

Around these parts ethanol is just a way of life. I use 93 octane and throw in seafoam regulary. If I don't plan on riding for long periods of time which is the case many times for me, then I throw in some marine grade ethanol stabalizer/eliminator.

[silveradols]

Most stations around me have no alcohol in their premium gas, because they don't sell as much of it, in the alcohol goes bad quickly.. so saying no to ethanol is
my rule!

I don't have a choice, there are no ethanol free 93 octane stations around here. The sad part is that ethanol makes your engine produce less power( cage or bike ), gets lower gas mileage, produce more emissions, cost more and destroys your engine faster. So, there is absolutely no benefit to the consumer from ethanol. Has anybody ever heard of "Star Tron", it's supposed to be for ethanol issues?

[keitho]

[QUOTE=lostrider;1616518]Around these parts ethanol is just a way of life. I use 93 octane and throw in seafoam regulary.

The ethanol seems to break down the rubber slosh boot around the fuel filter clogging it up. Replace the filter if it starts starving for fuel or won't idle.

[g9r]

I don't have a choice, there are no ethanol free 93 octane stations around here. The sad part is that ethanol makes your engine produce less power( cage or bike ), gets lower gas mileage, produce more emissions, cost more and destroys your engine faster. So, there is absolutely no benefit to the consumer from ethanol. Has anybody ever heard of "Star Tron", it's supposed to be for ethanol issues?

Then why are we letting these knuckle heads put that crap in our gasoline while charging us more than ever?

[silveradols]

Then why are we letting these knuckle heads put that crap in our gasoline while charging us more than ever?

Just like why is there a "summer blend" and a "winter blend" of gas? Why can't there just be "one blend" for the whole year? The knuckle heads
keep doing it, because the majority of us keep electing the same ones into office year after year.

[Nemo]

The gas stations in my area all have 10% ethanol mixture in their gas, except for a few who have non-ethanol in the lowest octane rating fuel. I'm just wondering what I'm gonna do if they increase the ethanol percentage, because my manual says no more than 10% ethanol. Does anybody have any ideas?

From what I have heard and read, Gumpies stopped subsidizing the production of this blend crap. Was suppose to stop production. Get lousy mileage and its bad for engines. Great way to make us buy more to get the mileage we USED to get. Can't believe they still making it.

And this site has been posted before. Just click on your state and find out where there are stations with real gas, no ethanol crap.

http://pure-gas.org/

[silveradols]

From what I have heard and read, Gumpies stopped subsidizing the production of this blend crap. Was suppose to stop production. Get lousy mileage and its bad for engines. Great way to make us buy more to get the mileage we USED to get. Can't believe they still making it.

And this site has been posted before. Just click on your state and find out where there are stations with real gas, no ethanol crap.

http://pure-gas.org/

Only one station in my area has 93 octane ethanol free gas and it's out of the way, so I need to find some additive to solve my ethanol problem.

[Nemo]

Only one station in my area has 93 octane ethanol free gas and it's out of the way, so I need to find some additive to solve my ethanol problem.

I have 2 within 10 miles. Both Union 76 stations....

[sbman]

From what I have heard and read, Gumpies stopped subsidizing the production of this blend crap. Was suppose to stop production. Get lousy mileage and its bad for engines. Great way to make us buy more to get the mileage we USED to get. Can't believe they still making it.

And this site has been posted before. Just click on your state and find out where there are stations with real gas, no ethanol crap.

http://pure-gas.org/

They may have stopped subsidizing, but the EPA still requires the blended gas be sold in certain areas. For example, the greater Milwaukee area. And you can see that using your link. I checked it out, and the only non-ethanol sold in Milwaukee and surrounding counties is a station directly connected with the Milwaukee Mile racetrack.

[Scuddy]

BUMP

Silver's question still stands. Is there any solution to this issue?



Good question by the way.

[Bossmav]

BUMP

Silver's question still stands. Is there any solution to this issue?



Good question by the way.

We are all battling a problem that will never go away but will only get worse. You have two options, find a station that sells real gas or put in a additive everytime you fuel up.
Putting in 10% ethanol fuel from time to time won't hurt your engine but when you use it all the time it's going to catchup with you and give you major problems down the road. Buying an additive to put in everytime you fuel up is expeniense but keep the inside parts every clean. It's a no win either way you go, good fuel costs more. Where I live I'm 3/4 of a mile from a station that sells both fuels, 100% and 10% ethanol, the lines for 100% even at 7 cents more a gal are always packed compared to the 10% ethanol lines, that has to say something right there.

P.S. I always get better fuel mileage with real gas!

[ELI]

10% corn ethanol 10% less power,the more the worse, never use it if you can avoid it almost impossible in the midwest,put a tank of e-85 in my wifes 2011 Durango, mileage dropped by 2-4 mpg!, its crap, period, the result of corn subsidies,pisses me off on so many levels,last I heard it takes 1.13 gallons of diesel to make 1 gallon of ethanol,which one do you think has more BTU?Just add a littl MMO,its just diesel any way,a couple of ozs if you get 10-15% in a tank.Now about the problems its causing in small engines well,just ask a small engine guy!

[Skunk9]

Where I live the motorcycle shops and a couple gas stations sell gas called Cam2 racing fuel which
is ethanol free and said to have 110 octane. I ran it a couple times when it was $5.28 a gallon but
now it has gone to $8.58 and I don't see that much difference between it and 93 octane.

[Nemo]

We are all battling a problem that will never go away but will only get worse. You have two options, find a station that sells real gas or put in a additive everytime you fuel up.
Putting in 10% ethanol fuel from time to time won't hurt your engine but when you use it all the time it's going to catchup with you and give you major problems down the road. Buying an additive to put in everytime you fuel up is expeniense but keep the inside parts every clean. It's a no win either way you go, good fuel costs more. Where I live I'm 3/4 of a mile from a station that sells both fuels, 100% and 10% ethanol, the lines for 100% even at 7 cents more a gal are always packed compared to the 10% ethanol lines, that has to say something right there.

P.S. I always get better fuel mileage with real gas!

Exactly. When I use the crap gas my light blinks at around 130 miles, After 2 tanks of real gas I am back up to 150+. Total bullchitski that crap in our fuel!!

[Scuddy]

Ok. What additive?

[silveradols]

Ok. What additive?

I think "Star Tron" may solve our problem, but does anyone know anything about it or any other additive that will work. I wonder how it would affect my bike to run the lower octane/non-ethanol gas vs the higher octane/10% ethanol gas.

[Scuddy]

I will start this off with a disclaimer..."It's been several years since I sold my boat, but I think I remember..."

There was a rash of problems with outboards having serious fuel system problems due to ethanol in the gas.
The ehtanol in the fuel was reacting to the water in the fuel (a big problem in florida) turning the two into alcohol.
The alcohol in turn was tearing up the fuel systems in the newer outboards and some fuel tanks as well. Picture a dealership with a line of new
boats in for repair with pissed off owners that can't file the repairs under warranty because the fuel analysis was comming back with
alcohol in it. ect... you get the picture. Glad my boat wasn't one of those!!

Anyways...
Does anybody think that we might possibily have a fuel system problems start showing up in the future, and if so, what are the options prior to?


Dunno Myself That's why i'm asking.

[GassGuzzler]

I think "Star Tron" may solve our problem, but does anyone know anything about it or any other additive that will work. I wonder how it would affect my bike to run the lower octane/non-ethanol gas vs the higher octane/10% ethanol gas.

Star Tron is a great product like seafoam it stops the algie that corn gas produces and eliminates the condensation in the gas

[hunt1moore]

I have ranted about this on here before! Cost me $400+ in repairs on my Yamaha F90 outboard. As recommended I now use Star Tron and have be for a couple years now. Have not have any more problems!
As far as someone saying that their gas is ethanol free, I would definately have it tested. I know personally a guy who owns a local gas supply company and has a boat at the same lake as me. I called him to find out where to buy E-free gas and his answer was "Good luck!" Some stations really do have some but like he said, it's hard to find. It's generally blended into the real gas at the supply station where he buy's his stock. He is also a critic when the local marina claims that their gas is E-free.
I have stock in Star Tron! I don't like Stabil because when I used it in my boat I lost 1-2 mph on the top end. I use it in my 109 as well. Seems to run good with it.

[silveradols]

I guess I'll be buying some StarTron for my C and my Boat motor.

[JohnC]

I researched this mess while back; there are several major problems with ethnol in gas.

The biggest issues are that it takes a lot of energy to produce (about as much as it supposidly saves), it produces less energy in a combustion engine thereby actually lowering gas mileage and H.P, and it's highly destructive of fuel systems and can damage your engine, as some here have already stated.
It is especially hard on any stored fuel or infrequently used motorized vehicle or equipment.

I started using a Sta-Bil product all the time for fuel specifically designed for these problems a while back because of frequent deployments that kept me from riding for as much as 8 months at a time, still use it because I work overseas now. I got home 3 weeks ago, an had no problems with my C, or any of my lawn equipment; all started on the first pull or hit on the starter, and ran great.

There are several good products available in any auto parts store, all are good as long as they are for ethonol fuels, and all are cheaper than repairs.

IMO, the biggest thing is to find one you trust from internet research and use it all the time, in every tank of gas, because you can't trust any of the gas companys to fully disclose thier bleds. They are being pressured to put ethonol in our gas by the same government agency that admitted to hiking gas prices to force us towards alternative energy.....and ethonol falls in that catagory.

[hunt1moore]

I researched this mess while back; there are several major problems with ethnol in gas.

The biggest issues are that it takes a lot of energy to produce (about as much as it supposidly saves), it produces less energy in a combustion engine thereby actually lowering gas mileage and H.P, and it's highly destructive of fuel systems and can damage your engine, as some here have already stated.
It is especially hard on any stored fuel or infrequently used motorized vehicle or equipment.

I started using a Sta-Bil product all the time for fuel specifically designed for these problems a while back because of frequent deployments that kept me from riding for as much as 8 months at a time, still use it because I work overseas now. I got home 3 weeks ago, an had no problems with my C, or any of my lawn equipment; all started on the first pull or hit on the starter, and ran great.

There are several good products available in any auto parts store, all are good as long as they are for ethonol fuels, and all are cheaper than repairs.

IMO, the biggest thing is to find one you trust from internet research and use it all the time, in every tank of gas, because you can't trust any of the gas companys to fully disclose thier bleds. They are being pressured to put ethonol in our gas by the same government agency that admitted to hiking gas prices to force us towards alternative energy.....and ethonol falls in that catagory.

I was told by a marine mechanic that Yamaha sold more replacement power heads for outboards when they went to 10% ethanol than any other time before.
I'm not a chemist and can't tell you what is in the different brands of ethanol treatments but I recommend (like you said) not to mix them in the same tank thinking that it will be better. There is some speculation that some of the mixing of these products (in combination with everything else blended in it) can cause a fine, powdery byproduct when in a dry state. This byproduct can clog fine micron pre-filters which is what happened to my outboard.
The outboard has a few filters in-line from the tank to the injectors. They graduate in their filtering size from basically sand size particles at the pick-up tube in the tank to a 10 micron at the injector. In between these two filters there is another that caught all the ethanol erosion of the non-compatible fuel lines. This was a fine black product.

[Nemo]

What a great way to inflate gas sales and bring mechanics more work. That's a good thing though LOL

[hunt1moore]

What a great way to inflate gas sales and bring mechanics more work. That's a good thing though LOL

Thats true!
For the last several years boat sales have plumeted to the point where loads of dealers were sucking air. The funny thing was that they were the ones bitching the loudest about the effects of ethanol and the whole time repairing one motor after another while sales were in the tank! Probably a big factor in several dealers surviving. This wasn't warranty work!

As a note, I think Boston Whaler took a big hit with some of their built in gas tanks.

[JohnC]

Thats true!
For the last several years boat sales have plumeted to the point where loads of dealers were sucking air. The funny thing was that they were the ones bitching the loudest about the effects of ethanol and the whole time repairing one motor after another while sales were in the tank! Probably a big factor in several dealers surviving. This wasn't warranty work!

As a note, I think Boston Whaler took a big hit with some of their built in gas tanks.

Sounds like the boat dealers were taking advantage just to survive. Sad, and to me inethical, but unfortunately boats fall in a lot of cases into the catagory of, in a bad economy, something that folks can live without. I gave up the chance to buy one I really wanted because it was something I just couldn't justify to myself as needing when I might be laid off at my employers whim. A lot of folks I know sold thiers for the same reason.
The dealerships taking advantage of the warranty clause will be remembered once (or if) the economy improves; I have a LONG memory; so do a lot of folks, and bet it bites them in the boo-boo long term in sales late down the road.

My issue is that ethonol can potentially harm my primary means of transportation, and that I can not allow.
I also can't afford the high cost of repairs, or replacing equipment prematurely that should last for years. And like it or not, failing to maintain a lawn lowers home values not of just your home, but affects values of every home in the neighborhood, so I consider lawn equipment as a required expense.

Your advice on sticking to one brand of additive is good IMO. Another thing I learned in my research is that, especially for stored fuel or seldom used motors, the additive must be added right away...the fuel with ethonol starts breaking down as soon as the ethonol is added, but accelerates once it's pumped, especially into a gas can or a vehicle with a vented fuel system. Don't understand the chemistry completely, but it's supposed to have something to do with ethonol's molecues wanting (for lack of a better word) to bond with water.
At least thats how I understand it.

[Nemo]

Is More Ethanol Good or Bad?

By CHRISTOPHER JENSENDan Neville/The New York Times
In Sunday’s Automobiles section I’ll have an article on the ethanol industry’s efforts to increase the amount of ethanol in gasoline to 15 percent from 10 percent.
The ethanol producers are asking the Environmental Protection Agency to allow the increase. They say it is necessary to meet a government mandate to increase the use of biofuels.
But automakers, engine makers and owners of service stations have some major concerns. They are worried that such an increase will cause problems in engines used in everything from cars to lawn mowers and weed trimmers.
The ethanol industry says things will be fine. What else would they say?? lol

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/08/is-more-ethanol-good-or-bad/

[Nemo]

What are some pros and cons of ethanol?

In: Renewable Energy, Green Living [Edit categories]




Answer:
Improve
Advantages:

• First, ethanol is a renewable, relatively safe fuel that can be used with few engine modifications.
• The second benefit of ethanol is that it can improve agricultural economies by providing farmers with a stable market for certain crops, such as maize and sugar beets.
• third, using ethanol increases national energy security because some use of foreign petroleum is averted.
• Ethanol is nontoxic and biodegradable, it quickly breaks down into harmless substances if spilled. Ethanol use reduces carbon monoxide and many toxic pollutants from the tailpipe of vehicles, making air cleaner.
• Because ethanol is made from crops that absorb carbon dioxide and give off oxygen it has a potential to reduce greenhouse gas emission and help maintain the balance of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
• It is a renewable energy (it means we can always produce it if we have the organic materials to spare)

• Some claim it is causing food shortages and driving up the cost of corn. This is ridiculous because they can plant more corn and alcohol doesn't have to be made from corn. It can even be made form garbage.

It has many other advantages over gasoline at least it can be a permanent resource.
It would be far better if we didn't use the internal combustion engine whatever the fuel you use with it, but powers that be won't let that happen. They apparently want the major crisis that many have been predicting would happen when oil prices go through the roof! This is now begging to become a reality. We have far far better technology then this and now its going to hit the fan!

Disadvantages:

• Burning it produces almost as much pollution as the petroleum LMAO. I thought this was the reason for the crap?
• Growing it takes a lot of land and energy, and most crops are sprayed with pesticides
• You get 12 to 15% less fuel mileage with it you don't get as good milage with ethanol as gasoline yup
• It also drives up the price of our food as there isn't as much corn for the animals feed.
• Ethanol corrodes iron parts slightly.

It's one of the worst ideas they have ever come up with. Everything is mostly con with ethanol.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_s...ons_of_ethanol