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Thread: Hydraulic clutch

  1. #31
    Very Active Member rnspark's Avatar
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    Default Clutch

    Had LC1500 hydraulic clutch was excellent. If you market parts etc I would be very interested for my 109. You are doing excellent job Rainey

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  3. #32
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Prototype finished.

    I will post the testing video coming week.

  4. #33
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Prototype






  5. #34
    Very Active Member 9luver's Avatar
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    Definitely want one of these as soon as they are available.Sounds like it will be reasonably priced as well. What year master cylinder is needed Rainey? Found new 2008 C90 master cylinder for $150 online.
    Revo 6"Cannon, Corbin seat, K&N filters, FI2000R

  6. #35
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9luver View Post
    Definitely want one of these as soon as they are available.Sounds like it will be reasonably priced as well. What year master cylinder is needed Rainey? Found new 2008 C90 master cylinder for $150 online.
    what ?? I bought USD248.0

  7. #36
    Very Active Member 9luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainey5230 View Post
    what ?? I bought USD248.0
    Rainey, found it at ProCaliber.

    http://www.procaliber.com/
    Revo 6"Cannon, Corbin seat, K&N filters, FI2000R

  8. #37
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9luver View Post
    Rainey, found it at ProCaliber.

    http://www.procaliber.com/
    yeah 2005 model sold USD278.0 discount USD200.0

    but 2008 model is cheapst

    Hey remember You need the clutch lever too.

  9. #38
    Very Active Member Alien109's Avatar
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    That looks AWESOME Will the covers still fit or do they need modified?

  10. #39
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien109 View Post
    That looks AWESOME Will the covers still fit or do they need modified?
    You don't need any mod Cover still fit

  11. #40
    Very Active Member freestylejski's Avatar
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    Sweet I like ........I want 1
    Let's Ride!!!!

  12. #41
    Very Active Member m109ken's Avatar
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    Rainey, looks like you've made progress since our last posts. I'm very interested. The only bad thing is I will have to go back to the stock style lever. If this mod becomes popular, which I think it will, maybe we ca get the people from Yani Shanki to make us up some custom levers. Maybe they already have one for the C-90 clutch side. This is the style I am referring to.
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  13. #42
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m109ken View Post
    Rainey, looks like you've made progress since our last posts. I'm very interested. The only bad thing is I will have to go back to the stock stlye lever. If this mod becomes popular, which I think it will, maybe we ca get the people from Yani Shanki to make us up some custom levers. Maybe they already have one for the C-90 clutch side. This is the style I am referring to.
    C90 also have some after market lever.
    You can search it.
    But I didn't saw your mod model.

  14. #43
    Very Active Member gooroo's Avatar
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    Default Hydrolic Clutch - Clutch Engagement Switch Question

    Rainey - I have been following your post by skimming over it from time to time. Today I spoke to Alien109 concerning your project because of the woes some of us have had with ZUK Clutch Cables breaking. I am moving back to the ZUK setup from the HD set up I made to avoid the cables continually breaking. The reason why follows. But between the discussion Alien109 and I had, made us think of a question concerning your invention.

    As you know the ZUK clutch lever has a small plunger style switch located on the bottom called the Clutch Engagement Switch. There have been several posts concerning the removal of this switch. Some I included. Based on the research I did before I modified to an HD lever, I found that removing the switch shouldn't make a difference in performance on the 2006 - M109. Modifying the cable to fit HD lever solved my issues with cables breaking, but removing the switch does effect performance at higher speeds.

    I learned that that Clutch Engagement Switch not only allows the bike to start when the lever is pulled back, but is directly linked into the ECM. The second function is to ensure that the rider does not over rev the engine when in nutural. When you remove the switch, you need to bridge the connection making the bike think that it is engaged. But when you do this bike performance is lost when the engine is at 4000 rpm or more. Why - because the bike thinks the lever is closed and the bike is in nutural and doesn't allow the rider to go over the rev limit. The result is loss of power upon accelaration in the area of 4000 rpm.

    Which brings me (us) to the question - In your quest to convert to a hydrolic clutch, what happens to the clutch engagement switch? I think your idea is a noble one, especially feeling the pain of contnued cables breaking, but in your modification, was the clutch lever switch left in the equation?



    They say it's not the size that counts - They are obviously HD owners?

  15. #44
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gooroo View Post
    Rainey - I have been following your post by skimming over it from time to time. Today I spoke to Alien109 concerning your project because of the woes some of us have had with ZUK Clutch Cables breaking. I am moving back to the ZUK setup from the HD set up I made to avoid the cables continually breaking. The reason why follows. But between the discussion Alien109 and I had, made us think of a question concerning your invention.

    As you know the ZUK clutch lever has a small plunger style switch located on the bottom called the Clutch Engagement Switch. There have been several posts concerning the removal of this switch. Some I included. Based on the research I did before I modified to an HD lever, I found that removing the switch shouldn't make a difference in performance on the 2006 - M109. Modifying the cable to fit HD lever solved my issues with cables breaking, but removing the switch does effect performance at higher speeds.

    I learned that that Clutch Engagement Switch not only allows the bike to start when the lever is pulled back, but is directly linked into the ECM. The second function is to ensure that the rider does not over rev the engine when in nutural. When you remove the switch, you need to bridge the connection making the bike think that it is engaged. But when you do this bike performance is lost when the engine is at 4000 rpm or more. Why - because the bike thinks the lever is closed and the bike is in nutural and doesn't allow the rider to go over the rev limit. The result is loss of power upon accelaration in the area of 4000 rpm.

    Which brings me (us) to the question - In your quest to convert to a hydrolic clutch, what happens to the clutch engagement switch? I think your idea is a noble one, especially feeling the pain of contnued cables breaking, but in your modification, was the clutch lever switch left in the equation?
    Hi
    Sorry bro my english no good.
    I know what you said , but try to understand what I said. its hard work , ha ha.

    1.Master clinder is come from Suzuki C90 Genuine parts , it also have Clutch Engagement Switch , and same with our 109r stock. You don't need buy it. just move to master cylinder bottom.

    2.Suzuki didn't made the engine protect , even in the nutural , you can throttle full open and REV over 4000rpm until red line.
    Suzuki ECM know which one gear you are. This signal is come from Gear position sensor. Not come from Clutch Engagement Switch. Suzuki made 5 ignition maps in ECM data. The only one way could be change it, that is use ATRE.

    3.About the Clutch Engagement Switch , it have 2 wire , one is 12V electric current in and other is out.
    This 12V power come from our 9R position light and pass Clutch Engagement Switch >>Head light relay>>Engine starter button.

    That is mean If you don't pull the clutch lever , the Engine Starter button is no avail, and at the same time that head light also turn off and save battery power for Starter Motor use.

    You can check the Our 9R Clutch Lever Postion Switch in map , it didn't connect with ECM.

    4.Our Slave cylinder maker have same production offer Suzuki GXSR 600,1000 Kawasaki ER6, Ninja 600 and 1000 over 2 years. No problem. And their quality is best in here. So we choice cooperate with them.

    So I think that is good news for us , the Clutch Engagement Switch is same. C90 and 109R can be swap or exchange.



    Last edited by Rainey5230; 12-10-2011 at 02:37 PM.

  16. #45
    Very Active Member 9luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainey5230 View Post
    yeah 2005 model sold USD278.0 discount USD200.0

    but 2008 model is cheapst

    Hey remember You need the clutch lever too.
    Rainey,

    Will the 2008 C90 master cylinder work or do I need to order a 2005?
    Revo 6"Cannon, Corbin seat, K&N filters, FI2000R

  17. #46
    Very Active Member JMAKAMN's Avatar
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    how much will the conversion kits sell for?
    "TO PUNISH AND ENSLAVE"

  18. #47
    Very Active Member JMAKAMN's Avatar
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    does anyone have a part # for the cluch lever and reservoir that we will need
    "TO PUNISH AND ENSLAVE"

  19. #48
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9luver View Post
    Rainey,

    Will the 2008 C90 master cylinder work or do I need to order a 2005?
    Please wait I got check my old bill find out the parts Number.

  20. #49
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMAKAMN View Post
    how much will the conversion kits sell for?
    Targe price is under USD 200.0

  21. #50
    Very Active Member tbar's Avatar
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    Default Wow

    That's a good price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainey5230 View Post
    Targe price is under USD 200.0
    "Life's is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, leaking oil with your engine smoking, shouting GERONIMO!" - Life is tough, it's tougher when you're stupid.- Speeding is ONLY a crime IF you get caught.

    "The Devil Inside" TBAR = That Boy Ain't Right

  22. #51
    Very Active Member Alien109's Avatar
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    Rainey could you post more pics of the master cyl and clutch lever? A view from the front would be great.

  23. #52
    Very Active Member bryan67's Avatar
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    Default kit

    well when you ready to start shipping Definitly let me know. Thats the way I want to go. Get rid of cables.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. #53
    Very Active Member Screamnyellozonker's Avatar
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    Yep I have my clutch spring pressures jacked way up and I am gonna need one of these for sure.
    John3:16 PGR Rider.
    USMC
    Raw Black Shorty
    PC-V with Auto tune and quickshifter, Factory Pro shift star, Edelbrocks. 162 Hp 142 torque with the bottle.

  25. #54
    Very Active Member JMAKAMN's Avatar
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    possibly under $200 put me down for one
    "TO PUNISH AND ENSLAVE"

  26. #55
    Very Active Member rnspark's Avatar
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    Default Clutch

    Anything near the $200,I definitely want one. Nice job Rainey

  27. #56
    Very Active Member gooroo's Avatar
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    Default You've done a great job

    Your research and testing is great. I am anxiously awaiting the production and sale of this conversion. No sure why ZUK didn't take this route to begin with, but your research and inovation is gonna make a number of folks very happy. Including me.



    They say it's not the size that counts - They are obviously HD owners?

  28. #57
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Hi all

    I finished the hydraulic clutch test on 9R.
    It work very nice. When you free the clutch lever. The connect point is very clear. Linkage is perfect.

    We do the biggest slave cylider as we can. because the cooland hose is near it and side by side.
    So we can't make extension any more.

    In past couple months, We test this slave cylinder with Brembo Radial clutch master cylinder.
    It is very nice. save about 30% force in pull less.
    But you know , the Brembo cylinder is 19X20mm

    And C90 master cylinder is only 15X18mm

    After I calculated

    Master cylinder lever side
    Gl = Lp / Lf

    Lf: finger to fulcrum(mm)
    Lp:master cylinder Piston to fulcrum(mm)
    G1: lever amplify rate

    Hydraulic side
    G2 = (Rci)^2 / (Rp)^2

    Rp: Master cylinder piston radius(mm)
    Rci: slave cylinder piston radius(mm)
    G2: Hydraulic amplify rate

    Total amplify rate G3
    G3 = G1 * G2
    Sorry we can't make a pull less hydrualic clutch system with C90 stock master cylinder.

    The Pull force is same with stock cable type or a little less. not huge , not so obvious.
    Just same with VTX or Raider and C90.

    Becuase C90 hydrualic clutch lever length is same with cable type.
    and swing arm length is same in gear box side too.

    So If you looking pull less Hydraulic clutch. Please use Radial clutch master cylinder assembly.

    If you want ride safy ,no more broken cable,self adjust and same look with brake side master cylinder.

    I think C90's is your best choice.

    PS:The slave cylinder company Engineer will come to check my bike in Monday.
    If we can't finger out how to make pull less.
    Only take it.
    Last edited by Rainey5230; 12-17-2011 at 02:27 PM.

  29. #58
    Active Member Lurch.'s Avatar
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    Rainey - I'm very, very impressed. Well done on the work so far.
    You got a rough ETA on availability?
    Still second quarter next year?

  30. #59
    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurch. View Post
    Rainey - I'm very, very impressed. Well done on the work so far.
    You got a rough ETA on availability?
    Still second quarter next year?
    check here
    http://www.m109riders.com/forums/sho...drualic-clutch

    we are making it now. we need couple weeks.

    Thanks bro

  31. #60
    Active Member Lurch.'s Avatar
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    Thanks mate!

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