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Thread: Oil drain plug

  1. #1
    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Default Oil drain plug

    I have been changing my own oil ever since I bought my bike because I don't trust the dealer to do it the right way. I just changed my oil last week. When I removed both drain plugs, they were both tight but when I put them back in, the rear plug acted like it was stripped out. It would not tighten down. When I pulled the drain plugs out, there was not any metal particles on the magnets. I did put new crush washers on and it is not cross threaded.

    Any ideas on what could have happened or what the fix would be?
    M109R-"Don't just turn their heads, INFLICT WHIPLASH"!!!

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    Very Active Member BAD BOY M109R's Avatar
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    Not unless u tightened it too tight and pulled the threads out of the pan.... is aluminum...u can add helicoils....(sure spelled wrong...)
    BONE STOCK

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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAD BOY M109R View Post
    Not unless u tightened it too tight and pulled the threads out of the pan.... is aluminum...u can add helicoils....(sure spelled wrong...)
    That is what puzzles me about it, the last time that I changed the oil, the plug tightened down as it normally does. But when I took it out this time, it came out like it should. When I put it back in, I hand screwed it in. It went in as it should. I did not notice any cross threading. It just would not tighten down enough to strip the threads out.

    Does anyone know what the size of the drain plug?
    M109R-"Don't just turn their heads, INFLICT WHIPLASH"!!!

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    Very Active Member BigpapaM109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    That is what puzzles me about it, the last time that I changed the oil, the plug tightened down as it normally does. But when I took it out this time, it came out like it should. When I put it back in, I hand screwed it in. It went in as it should. I did not notice any cross threading. It just would not tighten down enough to strip the threads out.

    Does anyone know what the size of the drain plug?
    It keeps just turning and turning and you never feel any resistance? I agree with Bad Boy to use helicoils.

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    Very Active Member Rainey5230's Avatar
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    The real oil pan thickness only less 3mm.
    Don't over 23 ft.lb in tighten.

    I repaid it but still have some leaking.
    So I bought a new one.
    Last edited by Rainey5230; 01-19-2011 at 11:03 AM.

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    Very Active Member topgun's Avatar
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    Cool

    This is why a torque wrench is needed 16.5 ft.lb and tighten 1/4/turn after torqued.
    Ride safe Ride smart, STAY ALIVE!!!

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    Very Active Member Nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainey5230 View Post








    The real oil pan thickness only less 3mm.
    Don't over 23 ft.lb in tighten.

    I repaid it but still have some leaking.
    So I bought a new one.
    Thats why I dont do the heli coils , at least on oil pans. Oil always finds ways by a repair. Using an oversized plug at least has a new gasket that seal the plug, Other then that a new pan is the way to go......
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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topgun View Post
    This is why a torque wrench is needed 16.5 ft.lb and tighten 1/4/turn after torqued.
    The last time that I put the plug in, it was torqued to spec. When I loosened it up, it was tight. Everything seemed normal up to the point of putting the plug back in. It just won't tighten up now. How do you strip threads when removing the plug?
    M109R-"Don't just turn their heads, INFLICT WHIPLASH"!!!

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    Very Active Member BigpapaM109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
    Thats why I dont do the heli coils , at least on oil pans. Oil always finds ways by a repair. Using an oversized plug at least has a new gasket that seal the plug, Other then that a new pan is the way to go......
    I think it is 6 one way, half a dozen the other. Either way you have to drill and tap the hole to the next size. IF you use the heli coil you can retain the stock size drain plug with a crush washer. Me personally, I would do a new pan. It isn't hard at all on the bike.

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    Very Active Member BigpapaM109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    The last time that I put the plug in, it was torqued to spec. When I loosened it up, it was tight. Everything seemed normal up to the point of putting the plug back in. It just won't tighten up now. How do you strip threads when removing the plug?
    When you put it in and torqued it down, it may have damaged it then. When you removed it, it pulled the damaged thread with it and now your bolt has nothing to bite into.

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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
    Thats why I dont do the heli coils , at least on oil pans. Oil always finds ways by a repair. Using an oversized plug at least has a new gasket that seal the plug, Other then that a new pan is the way to go......
    What would be the next size up?
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    Very Active Member Nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigpapaM109 View Post
    I think it is 6 one way, half a dozen the other. Either way you have to drill and tap the hole to the next size. IF you use the heli coil you can retain the stock size drain plug with a crush washer. Me personally, I would do a new pan. It isn't hard at all on the bike.
    Yup they both are chezzy fixes,,,,,,,Only place I have used a helicoil is a stipped sparkplug hole. Something about the heat will allow such a repair possible and work............
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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigpapaM109 View Post
    When you put it in and torqued it down, it may have damaged it then. When you removed it, it pulled the damaged thread with it and now your bolt has nothing to bite into.
    Thanks Bigpapa, that makes sense to me now. Damn, this sux.
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    Very Active Member BigpapaM109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
    Yup they both are chezzy fixes,,,,,,,Only place I have used a helicoil is a stipped sparkplug hole. Something about the heat will allow such a repair possible and work............
    It is also a much deeper hole and that is where the helicoil shines. It isn't real good in smaller height holes.

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    Very Active Member BigpapaM109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    Thanks Bigpapa, that makes sense to me now. Damn, this sux.
    Yea, but it really isn't that bad of a job. Check pinwall cycle on ebay as they have every part. They might have the pan. If not, oneida is your best bet. Other then that, it is fairly easy. I haven't done one but check with Rainey or hopefully someone chimes in whether you need a pan gasket. I believe you will.

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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    I already posted a WTB on the 4 sale section for an oil pan. Thanks for the help and insights.
    M109R-"Don't just turn their heads, INFLICT WHIPLASH"!!!

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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigpapaM109 View Post
    Yea, but it really isn't that bad of a job. Check pinwall cycle on ebay as they have every part. They might have the pan. If not, oneida is your best bet. Other then that, it is fairly easy. I haven't done one but check with Rainey or hopefully someone chimes in whether you need a pan gasket. I believe you will.
    Thanks again Bigpapa, I will start my search.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    Thanks again Bigpapa, I will start my search.
    Your welcome. I will keep my eyes open for a pan as I scour ebay.

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    Very Active Member BAD BOY M109R's Avatar
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    Yea the way it is made a helicoil wouldn't work good ..... would block oil drainage.... tap it, or a new pan...
    BONE STOCK

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    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    I have been changing my own oil ever since I bought my bike because I don't trust the dealer to do it the right way. I just changed my oil last week. When I removed both drain plugs, they were both tight but when I put them back in, the rear plug acted like it was stripped out. It would not tighten down. When I pulled the drain plugs out, there was not any metal particles on the magnets. I did put new crush washers on and it is not cross threaded.

    Any ideas on what could have happened or what the fix would be?
    The oil pan is cast from some pretty cheap crap material. Depending on the level of inherent flaws when it was cast, the threads can come out without you having done anything wrong. It's not a pure piece of billet.

    If you go to NAPA and get the second oversize 1/2" drain plug (that's the only local place that keeps that particular one), you can cut new threads into the existing hole without having to install a helicoil. The thread pitch is virtually identical to the stock metric thread and the plug is enough oversize that it will get past the stripped threads.

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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpres500 View Post
    The oil pan is cast from some pretty cheap crap material. Depending on the level of inherent flaws when it was cast, the threads can come out without you having done anything wrong. It's not a pure piece of billet.

    If you go to NAPA and get the second oversize 1/2" drain plug (that's the only local place that keeps that particular one), you can cut new threads into the existing hole without having to install a helicoil. The thread pitch is virtually identical to the stock metric thread and the plug is enough oversize that it will get past the stripped threads.
    Thanks for the info tpres. I don't know which way I will go with it yet. Either like you said or just replace the oil pan.
    M109R-"Don't just turn their heads, INFLICT WHIPLASH"!!!

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    Very Active Member BigpapaM109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    Thanks for the info tpres. I don't know which way I will go with it yet. Either like you said or just replace the oil pan.
    Honestly, his idea is a good idea. If you have a tap, it doesn't hurt to try it.

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    Very Active Member swatcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigpapaM109 View Post
    Honestly, his idea is a good idea. If you have a tap, it doesn't hurt to try it.
    I think that is the way I am leaning towards. I'll always try the easy was first. If it doesn't work, then I know what the next step will be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpres500 View Post
    The oil pan is cast from some pretty cheap crap material. Depending on the level of inherent flaws when it was cast, the threads can come out without you having done anything wrong. It's not a pure piece of billet.

    If you go to NAPA and get the second oversize 1/2" drain plug (that's the only local place that keeps that particular one), you can cut new threads into the existing hole without having to install a helicoil. The thread pitch is virtually identical to the stock metric thread and the plug is enough oversize that it will get past the stripped threads.


    That is what i did when i had that problem except i took it to work and had the old man on the bridgeport machine tap it for me. It's straighter now than it was from the factory! As for the size, you are going to have to drop the pan anyway so just take it and the plug to napa and they will help you find the right oversize to make it work. the worst thing that could happen is you need a new pan and i think they are just under 200 bucks.

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    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54degrees View Post
    As for the size, you are going to have to drop the pan anyway so just take it and the plug to napa and they will help you find the right oversize to make it work.
    You don't need to take the pan to NAPA. I've done this before and the drain plug on the 109 is the same as about every Suzuki made in the last 25 years. It's just the 2nd oversize 1/2" drain plug from NAPA. It cuts it's own threads so there is no need for a tap. You just carefully thread it in there. Going in a 1/2 turn and then backing it up a little then going in a little more and back out a little until you have it all the way in.

    Take it back out and clean out any shavings and you're ready to go.

    If it don't work, you're out only a few $ for the plug.

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    Radio Active Member rynosback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topgun View Post
    This is why a torque wrench is needed 16.5 ft.lb and tighten 1/4/turn after torqued.
    That is anew one to me. I have done every oil change by tightening the bolts by hand and then torque it to 16.5 lbs and that's it. 1/4 more of a turn will add a LOT more torque.

    The oil filter is a different thing. You spin the oil filter on and when it is just hand snug you tighten it 2 more revolutions. All this is per the service manual.

    I hope you find a pan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatcop View Post
    .....How do you strip threads when removing the plug?
    As an automotive technician, I've seen this happen to quite a few aluminum oil pans on cars. Threads exist on the plug, and the aluminum oil pan has none.

    A senior automotive engineer explained the missing thread phenomenon to me.

    Since the drain plug is steel and the oil pan is aluminum, the two metals have different expansion rates when heated. The steel plug expands greater than the aluminum pan, causing the plug to "swell" in the threaded hole. When you remove the drain plug, especially when the engine is hot/warm, it takes a small amount of aluminum with the threads.

    We all know that aluminum is a great heat sync and effectively removes heat. It also cools significantly quicker than steel. With this in mind, when you re-install the plug back into the oil pan, it is still "swollen" and slightly oversized and the threaded hole has cooled and "shrunk". Obviously, this is not visible to the naked eye. But, over time, you are essentially tapping the hole and slowly removing the threads....ultimately, to the point where the threads are too thin and eventually become removed.

    I know it seems like a far-fetched story, but it makes sense to me.

    I need to change my oil in my M. If you're not in a rush, I could look into a replacement plug for you. I'll look up the correct size and thread pitch of the current plug and then locate a suitable drain plug. Once I get that information, all you need to do is go to the local hardware store and pick up the correct tap and some wheel bearing grease (if you don't already have some). Then visit an automotive parts store, such as Napa or Autozone, to pick up a drain plug. Again, I'll have to research a suitable drain plug for you. If you can't get either the tap or plug, we could work something out and I could probably source them out here in Canada and then send them to you.

    Let me know. I'll be flushing out the oil out of my M this weekend.



    I think your cheapest alternative is to tap the drain hole with the replacement size and thread pitch, and use the corresponding oversize drain plug.

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    Radio Active Member rynosback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munster View Post
    I think your cheapest alternative is to tap the drain hole with the replacement size and thread pitch, and use the corresponding oversize drain plug.

    But if you do that, you should pull the pan to make sure that you have all of the fragments.
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    Very Active Member Munster's Avatar
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    That's where the wheel bearing grease comes in handy.

    Dip the tap in some wheel bearing grease and slowly tap the hole. The grease will collect the filings. I've done this procedure many times over and touch wood, I haven't had any problems. I normally flush the pan by filling the engine with cheap oil and leaving the drain plug out. This actually flushes the last remaining bit of sediment from the bottom of the pan.

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    Very Active Member Nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynosback View Post
    But if you do that, you should pull the pan to make sure that you have all of the fragments.
    Isn't the axle grease for that purpose? Keep all the shavings contained, so they don't get into the pan??

    edit what he said below.LOL took too long to reply.......
    Last edited by Nemo; 01-19-2011 at 11:35 PM.
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