Mayhave killed my 9?
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  1. #1
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    Default Mayhave killed my 9?

    Went for a short fast ride tonight and looked down and saw the oil pressure light on was about a half mile away from home and chugged it in. I know should stopped right away but but I did what I did.

    Put oil in it and it is poring out the bottom.

    I did not even want to run the motor more than a few seconds so never got a eye on where it was coming from.

    What are usual suspects? From the bottom again it's likely The motor is damaged or I am a lucky SOB.

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    Very Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Did you loose a drain plug?

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    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Cracked/broken pan not unheard of. Might have gotten hit by a rock.

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    It was night so I could not get a good look so I will check today.

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    Well it seems I managed to not tighten the oil filter enough on the last oil change! I had about 500+ miles on it since but I guess the go fast ride I took last night was enough to make it come loose.

    I put fresh oil in it this morning and it seems to be running normal. The bike is covered in oil and will take me a week to clean her up!

    I am going to drain this oil am look for metal to see if I managed to add 20k miles to my engine in a 20 mile ride?

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    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    The oil light comes on at 10 psi so, there might have still been some pressure. You may have gotten really lucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    The oil light comes on at 10 psi so, there might have still been some pressure. You may have gotten really lucky.
    I sure hope so! Not a good way to start the ridding season with a blown motor!

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    Very Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Consider yourself lucky on 2 accounts. Not blowing the motor AND not going down on the ride! I'm sure the rear tire was lubed up pretty good with oil pouring out around the filter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    Consider yourself lucky on 2 accounts. Not blowing the motor AND not going down on the ride! I'm sure the rear tire was lubed up pretty good with oil pouring out around the filter!
    Yep that is for sure. I had the rear end kick out on me on my turn into home.

    I hosed off the oil at the car wash and it seems to be running fine. I still have to wash it with some dish soap to get the tires cleaned off.

    Man I was this morning hoping I did not have to rebuild the motor! I also have a mess to clean up in the driveway and garage!

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    Short of pulling the heads is there anyway to check for damage aside from looking for metal in the oil?

    Compression check?

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    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xfire68 View Post
    Short of pulling the heads is there anyway to check for damage aside from looking for metal in the oil?

    Compression check?
    If it ain't knocking just ride it.

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    Default I put fresh oil in it this morning

    I put fresh oil in it this morning ,,,,
    ................................................

    How much oil it needed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    If it ain't knocking just ride it.
    No knocking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thevili View Post
    I put fresh oil in it this morning ,,,,
    ................................................

    How much oil it needed?
    Hard to say as it leaked oil out overnight as well. It took 3.5qts this morning once I figured out the filter was loose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    Consider yourself lucky on 2 accounts. Not blowing the motor AND not going down on the ride! I'm sure the rear tire was lubed up pretty good with oil pouring out around the filter!
    Boy, you ain't kidding! One tie, I had changed the oil on my wife's (now ex) M50. When I changed the oil filter didn't notice the o-ring from the old filter was stuck to the bike. The bike ran fine and no leaks at idle. However, when I started off to work, I had the back tire slipping on me at the first stop sign. Badly! Thought WTF? Managed to get it home in one piece, and that is when I saw oil all over the underside. Was late for work that day while I tried to figure out what had gone wrong. Sure enough,m double o-rings on the filter. OOPS! Didn't go down, but it sure was a fun half mile ride home.
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    Very Active Member cbxer55's Avatar
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    I've told the horror story abut a friend, on whose M109R I did an oil change in early 2016. When I drained the old oil, I got 1.25 quarts, including the filter. And that oil had been in the bike for since 2010. Didn't look like, feel like, or even smell like oil. Looked and felt like colored water, smelled terribly of combustion by-products. Surprised his bike didn't suffer any damage. Should have smacked him and taken his keys.

    My sister had borrowed my 98 V-6 Ranger in 2010, She had it for four years and 40,000 miles. Never changed the oil one time, never cleaned it, inside or out. I don't know how it didn't suffer any internal damage, the oil that I drained was horrid lookin, like above. Maybe because it has always had a slow drip, and she was having to add a quart every so often, and I told her to always use Valvoline Max Life 20W-50. I still drive it to this day, and it shows no bad things for her mistreatment.

    Some people shouldn't have motor vehicles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xfire68 View Post
    Hard to say as it leaked oil out overnight as well. It took 3.5qts this morning once I figured out the filter was loose.
    You indeed got really lucky!! Sounds like it had enough to keep everything slippery until you got home. I would have just drained it completely and tightened the filter and then put in the proper amount of oil from scratch. This bike has a procedure for checking the oil like something out of a horror novel.

    At only 500 miles since the change, the filter would still be just fine. I used a oil filter wrench to tighten mine up last week when I changed the oil. Guess there is something to the two turns from contact?? Either that or you really left it loose. I always just hand tightened mine on my Volusia VL800 but always gave it a really good "grunt factor" clean filter and clean hands with no oil on them. If you have oily hands and a oily filter you can't get much torque on them.

    Glad you didn't muck up your bike!!

    Marty

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssportsmfg View Post
    You indeed got really lucky!! Sounds like it had enough to keep everything slippery until you got home. I would have just drained it completely and tightened the filter and then put in the proper amount of oil from scratch. This bike has a procedure for checking the oil like something out of a horror novel.

    At only 500 miles since the change, the filter would still be just fine. I used a oil filter wrench to tighten mine up last week when I changed the oil. Guess there is something to the two turns from contact?? Either that or you really left it loose. I always just hand tightened mine on my Volusia VL800 but always gave it a really good "grunt factor" clean filter and clean hands with no oil on them. If you have oily hands and a oily filter you can't get much torque on them.

    Glad you didn't muck up your bike!!

    Marty
    Thanks. Yeah I can't recall if I did it by hand or used the wrench? I do intend to drain it again and put in new oil. I put in some 10W-40 Castor oil I had so I will be replacing it with Mobile 1 synthetic which is what was in it. I just wanted to see if the motor was running normal before buying new oil and changing it just to have to pull the motor. Just got done scrubbing the oil off the driveway.

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    To be honest some folks shouldn't even look at vehicles


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xfire68 View Post
    Short of pulling the heads is there anyway to check for damage aside from looking for metal in the oil?

    Compression check?
    If you really want to check, do the compression check. But also do a leak down test. You can get the tester from O'Reillys or Auto Zone. And check the oil for metal filings. If you just added oil and didn't change the filter, you can send your filter to a few different places and they can cut it open and test the leftover oil too. Or if it's not knocking or running funny, just ride it. I think you got lucky and there is no damage.

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  23. #21
    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    Considering that oil light is not a oil pressure sensor its a low oil light that tells you there is not enough oil in the pan area to pump to the motor. This light only comes on when there is a lack of oil so if it comes on your best bet is to immediately when its safe to do so Kill the Motor. You may have caused some damage that you just won't know about unless you physically put your eyes on it. My opinion, put some good oil in it and ride, if its not knocking or blowing smoke you can consider yourself lucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xfire68 View Post
    Thanks. Yeah I can't recall if I did it by hand or used the wrench? I do intend to drain it again and put in new oil. I put in some 10W-40 Castor oil I had so I will be replacing it with Mobile 1 synthetic which is what was in it. I just wanted to see if the motor was running normal before buying new oil and changing it just to have to pull the motor. Just got done scrubbing the oil off the driveway.
    That's what I use Mobil 1 15w/50w synthetic. Best oil going for the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    Considering that oil light is not a oil pressure sensor its a low oil light that tells you there is not enough oil in the pan area to pump to the motor. This light only comes on when there is a lack of oil so if it comes on your best bet is to immediately when its safe to do so Kill the Motor. You may have caused some damage that you just won't know about unless you physically put your eyes on it. My opinion, put some good oil in it and ride, if its not knocking or blowing smoke you can consider yourself lucky.
    The oil light is, in fact, a pressure light. It comes on when the oil pressure gets below 10 psi. There is no "low oil level" sensor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xfire68 View Post
    Thanks. Yeah I can't recall if I did it by hand or used the wrench? I do intend to drain it again and put in new oil. I put in some 10W-40 Castor oil I had so I will be replacing it with Mobile 1 synthetic which is what was in it. I just wanted to see if the motor was running normal before buying new oil and changing it just to have to pull the motor. Just got done scrubbing the oil off the driveway.
    I'm glad to hear that it was only a loose oil filter versus having to do motor work. I be you won't ever do that again, as I'm sure the thought of it was somewhat numbing.

  27. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    The oil light is, in fact, a pressure light. It comes on when the oil pressure gets below 10 psi. There is no "low oil level" sensor.
    I could swear i remember that being a level switch, must be thinking about a different project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    I could swear i remember that being a level switch, must be thinking about a different project.
    If that's true, it is time to correct your post #21, so newcomers do not get the wrong idea....:
    http://www.m109riders.com/forums/sho...=1#post3773226
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  29. #27
    Very Active Member TRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    I could swear i remember that being a level switch, must be thinking about a different project.
    Real time oil level sensing might be difficult to implement. It might have already been done but with all that oil sloshing around it would seem to be difficult.

    My ford van has a level sensor but it's not real time. It reads the level before the engine is started and if the level is low is just stays on constantly.

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    I agree with a previous comment here. Perhaps also do a pressure test to put you a bit at ease that you have not damaged rings. If you really want to be 100% sure you have not damaged bearings etc. you can use a engine noise test cell. Unfortunately I live in South Africa so I cannot say where you would be able to find one available but for a few bucks you should be able to find some specialized mechanical workshop that has a an-echoic chamber whereby you can measure the internal noise of the engine with specialized equipment prior to going for a complete engine breakdown. This would be the extreme and if I were you I would not be concerned to much if (A), a pressure test shows nothing wrong, and (B), you are unable to hear anything untoward just by listening for any concerning sounds whilst idling and under load throughout the rev range. Good luck. I really hope you have not damaged anything.
    Last edited by stormiezzz; 4 Days Ago at 07:09 AM.
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  31. #29
    Very Active Member Latinrascal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRod View Post
    Real time oil level sensing might be difficult to implement. It might have already been done but with all that oil sloshing around it would seem to be difficult.

    My ford van has a level sensor but it's not real time. It reads the level before the engine is started and if the level is low is just stays on constantly.
    I remember back in 06-07 it was a big debate on how the system worked and the site mechanics came to the conclusion that it was a simple Idiot light, not oil pressure or not truly an oil level indicator either. It was thought that so much of the oil would always have to be in this part of the engine and if there wasn't enough pooled it would indicate not enough oil and trip the light. Anyway that's what i remember, i missed the pressure conclusion.

  32. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latinrascal View Post
    I remember back in 06-07 it was a big debate on how the system worked and the site mechanics came to the conclusion that it was a simple Idiot light, not oil pressure or not truly an oil level indicator either. It was thought that so much of the oil would always have to be in this part of the engine and if there wasn't enough pooled it would indicate not enough oil and trip the light. Anyway that's what i remember, i missed the pressure conclusion.
    Well, a simple "idiot light" has to be turned on and off by something. In this case, as in most vehicles that don't have an oil pressure gauge (and some vehicles that have a gauge also have a light), it's turned off by the pressure in the system being higher than the set point of the sensor which is 10 psi. Once the pressure falls below that, the light lights.

    So, even if the light is on, that doesn't mean there is no oil pumping, it's just not pumping at a pressure that is sufficient to keep the bearings from potentially galling. The M109, like many motors in bikes, uses plain bearings for the crank, rods and cam (the cam bearings are not bearings at all but just the cylinder heads) so it needs some pressure to keep things lubed. Idling the motor or not doing much with it (babying it) with the oil light on might not cause any significant damage. But, if you were trying to make some power with it, it would probably cause serious damage.

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